2007-02-07 GnuCash IRC logs
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00:59:13 <adrigen> Anyone: how should I enter bank interest into my account? ie where should it come from as the second entry?
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01:05:13 <warlord> adrigen: Income:Interest?
01:11:16 <adrigen> soundes good to me!
01:11:20 <adrigen> -e
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04:37:32 <danny__> Hello
04:38:03 <danny__> I'm trying to use gnucash just to calculate the effective return on my share portfolio... It's proving a bit inscrutable.
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09:52:31 <cstim> good morning everyone
09:53:03 <jsled> g'morning cstim, warlord, hampton, prock, conrad
09:53:53 <warlord> hiya
09:54:26 <prock> hi
09:55:00 <hampton> mornin'
09:57:47 <cstim> warlord: for your trip to Germany, I was wondering whether I could ask you to bring a pound of Peet's Coffee...? :-)
09:58:49 <warlord> Any particular variety?
09:59:57 <cstim> In one of the California Peet's Coffee stores I got "Costa Rica" coffee beans. And loved them.
10:00:08 <cstim> (full beans. I'll grind it myself.)
10:01:19 <warlord> Okay, I'll try to find a pound of Peets "Costa Rica" beans for you.
10:01:28 <cstim> that would be wonderful!
10:01:41 <cstim> Is it named Peets or Peet's?
10:01:54 <warlord> I.... don't know
10:02:35 <cstim> I saw some Peet{',}s Coffee in NYC, but not the Costa Rica variety.
10:04:03 <warlord> Well, I'm going to California before I come to .DE so I can look there if I can't find it around here.
10:04:16 <warlord> (and I think I know of a Peet's in the Boston area if I fail out in CA)
10:05:31 <cstim> Should I order some Eiswein for you already? Or should I point you to some stores in Hamburg or elsewhere for Eiswein?
10:10:18 <warlord> Well, I do have two weekends in Germany.. I arrive into Frankfurt on the evening of Friday the 23rd... So I have the 24th/25th around there. And then the next weekend up by you.
10:11:02 <warlord> (not that that answers your question)
10:12:08 <cstim> Sure. If you want anything with Eiswein to be prepared, don't hesitate to ask for it.
10:12:51 <warlord> Okay.
10:12:56 <cstim> For the Frankfurt weekend, if you are looking for someone to visit, you can contact Thomas Baumgart of Kmymoney, but I think you already did so.
10:13:22 <warlord> I actually haven't contacted him yet. I should.
10:13:33 <warlord> I'm sure I've got his email around somewhere.
10:13:51 <cstim> thb at net-bembel dot de
10:13:54 <warlord> Also, if you want to mention on gnucash-de that I'm going to be around... There may be other people out there.
10:14:40 <cstim> sure. I don't know of anyone else in the Hamburg area besides andi5 and Martin Preuss. Haven't heard back from both so far, but there's also plenty of time until end of March.
10:14:56 <warlord> Yep
10:15:10 <warlord> I still dont know if I'm going to try to come up on Friday evening or Saturday morning.
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10:20:17 <cstim> no problem. We'll see when the date comes closer.
10:22:37 <cstim> Have you heard of the wlan company FON in the U.S.? It's a Spain based company, so I'm not so sure about that...
10:27:59 <warlord> I've heard of it.
10:28:07 <warlord> But I dont know how... widely known.. it is in the US.
10:28:38 <warlord> And I thought it was FõN (or something like that)
10:30:19 <cstim> errr... that should have been an "o" with a tilde on top?
10:30:20 <cstim> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FON
10:30:43 <warlord> It was suppposed to be an o with a horizontal line on top.
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10:32:19 <cstim> http://lists.gnucash.org/logs/2007-02-07.html#T10:28:38 shows a tilde :-)
10:33:22 <warlord> I'm sure it does.
10:33:38 <warlord> (it showed up as a tilde here, too)
10:33:40 <warlord> :(
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10:35:53 <esodan> hi all, could you help me with my summit to gobject-engine-dev?
10:36:38 <jsled> Sure.
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10:39:37 <warlord> sure, esodan. How can we help?
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10:39:47 <warlord> sure, esoda1.. how can we help?
10:39:54 * warlord hates being sick
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10:40:49 <cstim> you're sick? I hope you get well soon :)
10:41:46 <esoda1> thanks, I have updated revision of my trunk to 15514, and made a svn diff in my work and patch the trunk with my current work
10:42:07 <MrN> hi
10:42:11 <warlord> cstim: thanks. My dad assures me that I should be better in two days.
10:42:26 <warlord> esoda1: that will get you into trouble.
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10:44:06 <esodan> but it sends me a rej file in qofid. (may be too much changes)... I had copied the actual on my current work and replased the one on the patched trunk, is it correct?
10:44:29 <warlord> esoda1, esodan: No. your branch is based off of r15459
10:44:32 <jsled> esodan: why are you patching into trunk?
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10:45:11 <warlord> You were supposed to bring your checkout up to r15459 and then copy it over to your branch.
10:46:22 <esodan> Sorry, I'm new with SVN...
10:47:00 <esodan> then I have my modified code with 15391
10:47:35 <esodan> Then do I need to update to r15459 and how?
10:47:39 <warlord> esodan: we told you last night what SVN commands to use.
10:47:57 <warlord> svn update -r15459
10:47:59 <esodan> Sorry but I lose them becouse a meeting in my work...
10:48:29 <jsled> esodan: http://lists.gnucash.org/logs/2007-02-06.html#T16:45:42
10:48:54 <esodan> warlord: this command is on my work dir righ?
10:50:21 <warlord> esodan: yes, the one that you pulled from trunk and did your work. That will pull it up to the same revision your branch uses.
10:52:58 <esodan> Haa!!! it is updating now...
10:56:07 <warlord> Good...
10:56:30 <warlord> When you commit it back to your branch, I recommend you make "small" commits..
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11:29:58 <warlord> We lose MORE developers that way! ;)
11:30:29 <jsled> heh
11:34:11 <MrN> ain't the main problem that so many people consider accounting software "boring and absolutely not fascinating"?
11:34:52 <warlord> I dunno
11:37:36 <MrN> that's a translated citation
11:43:46 <warlord> I know.
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11:53:34 <andi5> hiho channel
11:53:58 <jsled> hello andi5
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11:57:25 <andi5> warlord, cstim: expect me to be there in hh.... no news is good news
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11:57:39 <cstim> andi5: ok.
11:58:49 <warlord> hh?
11:59:25 <cstim> Hamburg
11:59:38 <cstim> "Hansestadt Hamburg". H.H.
12:00:05 <cstim> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hanseatic_League
12:01:34 <andi5> cstim: did you just complete a TODO item? :)
12:01:46 <cstim> which one?
12:01:54 <andi5> libofx
12:02:02 <cstim> oh, yes, seems so.
12:03:44 <warlord> andi5: Cool! It'll be good to finally meet you in person :)
12:05:25 <andi5> yeah, i am real.... sometimes i even turn my head towards my window... but not often :)
12:05:58 <cstim> towards windows? oh no
12:06:44 <cstim> andi5: another windows question: The command line tools of aqbanking require some user feedback (e.g. asking for a PIN).
12:07:12 <cstim> andi5: surprisingly, these do *not* work in the msys shell, but they *do* work at the cmd.exe prompt.
12:07:36 <andi5> is there a way to see that?
12:07:48 <cstim> andi5: have you ever heard of that?
12:07:52 <andi5> nope
12:07:58 <warlord> WEIRD.
12:08:35 <andi5> cstim: btw... tml will probably build gconf with -mwindows in the future... i.e. no cmd windows any more :)
12:08:45 <warlord> Yay!
12:08:51 <cstim> you mean, a test program? In the aqbanking tarball, replace the tarball version of one test file by this: http://aqbanking.cvs.sourceforge.net/aqbanking/aqbanking/src/frontends/cbanking/testlib.c
12:09:44 <cstim> obviously, in src/frontends/cbanking/. Then build src/libs and src/frontends/cbanking and run "./testlib test" there.
12:10:02 <cstim> on Unix, it will ask for a PIN.
12:10:09 <cstim> in the cmd.exe prompt, it does the same.
12:10:34 <cstim> At the msys prompt, it seems as if it hangs. Ctrl-C stops it, and there hasn't been any output.
12:11:04 <andi5> Ctrl-C is pretty cruel on windows
12:13:45 <cstim> On unix, tcsetattr() is used to get a nice terminal, but on windows/mingw there is no <termios.h>
12:13:53 * andi5 builds
12:19:55 <andi5> huh... it asks me some questions and then crashes... interesting
12:20:19 <cstim> crashes?
12:20:36 <andi5> yes... i am retrying
12:20:41 <cstim> like, with a crash? :-)
12:20:56 <andi5> like with a window asking whether i want to write microsoft a letter, yes
12:21:55 <cstim> oh, you're on winXP.
12:21:57 <cstim> I
12:22:00 <cstim> am
12:22:04 <cstim> still on win2000
12:22:22 <andi5> cstim: look, there is something between alt and alt-gr ;-)
12:24:01 <andi5> i think the stack trace is not realistic... i just printed the first 1700 frames and can still continue ;-)
12:24:55 <jsled> Oh, it's real...
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12:24:59 <jsled> ... really messed up.
12:25:32 <warlord> maybe the stack is getting scribbled?
12:25:41 <andi5> the crashes appear on AB_Banking_free... not so good
12:26:25 <cstim> uh oh.
12:27:04 <cstim> there was this whole issue with the function calling convention; stdcall vs. cdecl.
12:27:24 <andi5> ahhh... maybe i should set CXXFLAGS instead of CFLAGS :)
12:27:30 <cstim> huh?
12:27:40 <andi5> i wanted a non-optimized build...
12:27:43 <cstim> frontends/cbanking doesn't have any c++. CFLAGS ist just fine.
12:27:59 <andi5> hm.. ok
12:28:12 <cstim> src/frontends/cbanking uses only src/libs/aqbanking and gwenhywfar; no c++ involved.
12:28:25 <cstim> ok. I gotta run.
12:28:30 <andi5> ok, see you
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12:48:24 <andi5> [ot] o man, http://blogs.sun.com/richb/resource/freeware-list.html#section_H ... guess who is the winner... long way to go, long way to go ;-)
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12:51:26 <warlord> I just sent him mail to let him know that GnuCash is a gnome/gtk app
12:51:49 <andi5> yes, did you also tell him our capitalization? :)
12:53:21 <warlord> no. ;)
12:53:42 <andi5> interesting list!
12:53:48 <warlord> indeed.
12:54:08 <warlord> never would have considered gnumeric a finanial app
12:55:05 <andi5> the point is not that gnumeric is a financial app, but that you can use it to solve some financial issues (some even better than with gnucash)
12:55:33 <warlord> sure...
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13:46:18 <andi5> [ot] hehe... who is "Open Susie"... i hope it is a distribution... ;-)
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13:55:44 <warlord> heh
14:14:10 <andi5> looking at http://0pointer.de/blog/projects/avahify-your-app.html ... this might be interesting for our way opening databases :)
14:17:48 <warlord> Hmm
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14:37:24 <andi5> @tell cstim after removing the two __stdcall defines in gwenhywfar, the test works perfectly.... btw, pressing cancel in the aqbanking setup druid crashes for me too in my _own_ build (yours seems to work) .... i guess this will also work after a rebuild of gnucash... will retry tomorrow... this all is weird
14:37:24 <gncbot> andi5: The operation succeeded.
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15:48:13 <biloti> Hi. Question: after having tagged an account as hidden, how can I do to untag it? Since it no longer appears, I haven't found a way to select it again...
15:55:00 <warlord> I'm pretty sure there's a View hidden accounts setting somewhere.
15:55:41 <biloti> It should be, but I couldn't find it...
15:57:48 <jsled> biloti: View > Filter By > tab=Other
15:59:12 <biloti> got it! Thanks!
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18:00:43 <jsled> Hmm. We probably need guile-1.8 built with threading support, eh?
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18:03:29 <warlord> Hmm.. Probably..
18:03:55 * jsled tries out latest gentoo package churn
18:04:20 <jsled> they've pushed 2.0.4 to require guile-1.8.
18:04:54 <jsled> 2.0.4-r1, to be precise, and guile-1.8.1-r1, +deprecated, +discouraged, +regex ... but not +threads
18:06:23 <warlord> *SIGH*
18:07:15 <jsled> probably just a packaging bug ... I'd guess that the maintainer has 'threads' enabled globally, and just didn't notice it needs to be specifically enabled.
18:07:18 * jsled shrugs
18:08:47 <jsled> Wait, no, I just can't read.
18:09:02 <jsled> It's complaining about /usr/lib/libguile-ltdl.la,
18:12:17 <jsled> Ah. http://bugs.gentoo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=165713#c4 ...
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18:32:51 <jsled> Yeah, this seems fine. G-wrap is such a pita, though. I'm sure it's ultimately a packaging problem, but it needs to be built an odd number of times, otherwise it gets confused seeing it's own copy of libffi, and refuses to build with it enabled!
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18:42:38 <warlord> So nice that we got rid of g-wrap! :)
18:43:18 <jsled> aye.
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18:54:56 <jsled> warlord: so, after `autoreconf -siv`, do I still need to run ./configure [...] ?
18:55:27 <warlord> yes. the autoreconf is just a replacement for autogen
18:55:50 <warlord> note that i haven't tested it yes for gnucash?
18:56:43 <jsled> I just ran it, and it seemed to work alright ... stepped through the similar steps (gettext, libtoolize, autoconf, autoheader, automake)
18:57:08 <jsled> with an aclocal in there
18:58:11 <warlord> okay...
19:07:29 <MrN> n8
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19:10:38 <andi5> i just want to tell you that "autoreconf -siv" does _not_ work for me as is, because it completely ignores ACLOCAL_FLAGS
19:12:46 <warlord> andi5: We would need to make a change to the top-level Makefile.am to add ACLOCAL_AMFLAGS
19:13:09 <warlord> Or are you saying that you need additional ACLOCAL Flags?
19:13:38 <andi5> ACLOCAL_FLAGS, see autogen.sh
19:13:57 <andi5> oh, i am sorry... yes i need additional flags
19:14:31 <warlord> Are you sure that autoreconf doesn't take ACLOCAL_FLAGS into account?
19:14:43 <andi5> btw, http://pastebin.ca/raw/344756 fixes the "possibly undefined" error for me
19:14:47 <andi5> yes, pretty
19:15:00 <andi5> but i am not sure how hard it is to fix that
19:16:02 <warlord> Hmmm...
19:16:33 <andi5> what is the problem with autogen.sh?
19:17:47 <warlord> apparently some things need to get re-run a second time.
19:18:03 <warlord> (c.f. the email about configure failing on some platforms)
19:19:12 <andi5> what email? ... i guess "failure in configuration for a mac" is simply missing pkgconfig
19:21:16 <warlord> andi5: http://lists.gnucash.org/pipermail/gnucash-devel/2007-February/019796.html
19:23:14 <andi5> is this the only report?
19:23:27 <warlord> Read the thread.
19:25:25 <warlord> andi5: worst case, run autoreconf $(ACLOCAL_FLAGS)
19:25:30 <andi5> actually, i also do not see a report that autoreconf would have solved that issue
19:26:36 <warlord> This is true... But autoreconf is documented to call the programs multiple times as necessary, so I suspect it's more likely to have solved that issue. You're right that no, that hasn't been verified.
19:27:20 <andi5> http://pastebin.ca/raw/344772
19:28:07 <warlord> where is AM_GCONF_SOURCE_2 defined?
19:28:52 <andi5> in ~/Software/GConf/installs/Current/share/aclocal/gconf-2.m4
19:29:52 <andi5> you see, it is in my ACLOCAL_FLAGS (have built gnucash before that way :-))
19:30:21 <warlord> Wait, --include= ?? not -I.. ?
19:30:35 <warlord> Oh, I guess --include= is valid, too.
19:30:45 <warlord> (according to autoreconf(1) )
19:30:48 <andi5> i use "-I"
19:30:58 <warlord> I guess autoreconf has changed that.
19:31:03 <andi5> yep
19:31:27 <andi5> it just calls aclocal incorrectly
19:31:42 <warlord> did you rm aclocal.m4 before running autoreconf?
19:32:04 <andi5> yes
19:33:25 <warlord> http://www.mail-archive.com/bug-autoconf@gnu.org/msg00083.html
19:38:01 <warlord> andi5: what happens if you do ACLOCAL="aclocal $ACLOCAL_FLAGS" autoreconf?
19:38:26 <andi5> ACLOCAL seems to be the path to the aclocal binary to me
19:38:50 <andi5> "binary" ... perl script i mean
19:39:41 <andi5> export ACLOCAL_AMFLAGS=$ACLOCAL_FLAGS does not help either
19:41:13 <andi5> for completeness, http://pastebin.ca/raw/344789
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19:41:25 <federico> hi, all
19:41:42 <andi5> hi federico :)
19:42:15 <warlord> andi5: you didn't do what I said to do..
19:42:17 <federico> stupid question from a non-accountant
19:42:34 <andi5> warlord: i am sorry, you are right
19:42:34 <warlord> <warlord> andi5: what happens if you do ACLOCAL="aclocal $ACLOCAL_FLAGS" autoreconf?
19:43:26 <federico> I have an american express card, with a positive balance (i.e. I don't owe them money). Now I made a purchase with the card. If I create an a/payable account for my amex card, which of the columns is for "I owe them"?
19:45:06 <warlord> federico: Don't use A/Payable.. Use CreditCard
19:45:20 <andi5> autoreconf succeeded.... config.status: error: cannot find input file: po/Makefile.in.in
19:45:26 <federico> warlord: ah, good idea
19:45:34 <federico> warlord: thanks :)
19:46:34 <warlord> andi5: probably gettext issue.
19:46:50 <warlord> (not surprising that autoreconf doesn't work right now)
19:47:03 <warlord> ... or, rather, I was certainly expecting SOME amount of work to get autoreconf working.
19:48:24 <andi5> warlord: well, i will use it when it works, i will _even_ export ACLOCAL ;-) .... but i will not start hacking perl or putting much work into this :)
19:49:38 <andi5> but i suppose autoreconf can only handle AM_GNU_GETTEXT right now, not AM_GLIB_GNU_GETTEXT.... just a wild thought
19:49:57 <warlord> andi5: probably..
19:49:59 <warlord> I dont know.
19:50:14 <warlord> If I get motivated I'll play with it. Don't worry about it.
19:51:31 <andi5> warlord: you might also consider http://pastebin.ca/raw/344756 .... i have no idea what makes autom4te so picky about big letters
19:52:53 <andi5> see you
19:53:08 <federico> and by the way
19:53:13 <federico> gnucash is totally, totally awesome
19:53:18 <federico> my wife and I love it
19:53:27 <federico> so, thanks for writing it :)
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19:55:06 <warlord> federico: cool.
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20:45:09 <jsled> Hmm. Too bad the XML parsing lib doens't have a way to indicate what the parsing error was...
20:52:31 <warlord> yeah...
20:53:21 <jsled> I also don't really see a simple way to implement something like "Save As GnuCash 1.8/2.0 format."
20:55:35 <jsled> Well, kinda ...
20:55:51 <jsled> It's just ... not plumbed through already, so it would need to be, across like 4 different layers.
20:57:26 <jsled> ui -> backend -> sixtp_gdv2 -> gnc_mumble_dom_tree_create()'s
20:57:26 <warlord> *nods* we might want to simplify that plumbing.
20:58:02 <warlord> well, perhaps we just need a special 1.8/2.0 backend (as opposed to the normal backend)
20:58:29 <jsled> It's pretty straightforward for the first 3 layers, I guess, since there's like a single "context" object to store the value.
20:59:03 <jsled> But the dom_tree creation functions are pretty context-free ... they just take an (e.g.) SchedXaction and return a domtree ... no references to anything!
20:59:54 <warlord> hm
21:00:13 <jsled> I mean, that's just straightforward plumbing, but ... :/
21:01:21 <jsled> But even then, I don't see any way to propogate a "um, you've used a not-supported-in-1.8 features, I can't write anything!"
21:02:11 <jsled> I guess that could be a seperate check before even attempting to write... { if (!check_v18_able()) { report_errors(); } else { write_book(); } }
21:02:40 <jsled> I don't know. I'm leaning toward versioning the SX structures for 2.2, announcing it loudly in the release notes, and if someone feels like implementing "export as $oldver", then great.
21:02:49 <jsled> But it doesn't seem like a 2.2 release blocker.
21:03:32 * warlord shrugs
21:03:33 <jsled> And if there's a problem, we can have some external transform script to get a 1.8/2.0 compatible datafile from a 2.2-saved datafile.
21:03:39 <warlord> the xml b/e impl sucks
21:05:47 <jsled> It's mostly okay. The sixtp layer over sax is actually kinda nice, for simple parsing tasks... writing is kinda crappy, but at least it too is simple.
21:06:03 <jsled> I've not really seen much better.
21:06:23 <jsled> XML/Object impedence. :/
21:06:58 <warlord> would still be better with a parse error path.
21:33:18 <prock> when is 2.2 going to be branched?
21:33:38 <warlord> after the 2.1.x test series completes.
21:34:14 <prock> touche
21:34:48 <jsled> we should probably start thinking about 2.2 ...
21:36:15 <warlord> i've been thinking about it..
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21:36:28 <warlord> i was hoping the register rewrite would complete, but alas...
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21:36:48 <warlord> definitely hoping to get the anti-AccountGroup branch finished..
21:40:19 <jsled> As nobody's working on the register-rewrite, I don't see it. I'm curious about how much work hampton thinks is in the AG removal.
21:40:51 <jsled> Is the windows stuff pretty much good to go, or are the major problems?
21:40:54 <warlord> yeah, i dont think the reg rewrite is going to complete..
21:41:05 <warlord> we've still got to get gzip support.
21:41:14 <warlord> and F::Q support.
21:41:53 <jsled> Ah.
21:43:05 <warlord> c.f. comments about g_spawn and g_thread
21:43:31 <chris> I'm not likely to have any time for RR anytime soon.
21:43:38 <warlord> :(
21:47:00 <chris> btw, what on earth is lanokded?
21:47:18 <prock> ... it's sort of ok so far I guesses.
21:48:10 <chris> try googling for it.
21:49:43 <jsled> lol
21:49:52 *** jsled changes topic to "Welcome! Don't meta-ask, ASK and WAIT. SX-cleanup has landed in trunk - try it out! FAQ: <http://wiki.gnucash.org/wiki/FAQ>. This is a *publically-logged* channel, <http://lists.gnucash.org/logs/>"
22:00:04 <jsled> chris: work's going that well, eh? :)
22:01:22 <chris> jsled: heh. yeah. definitely having fun.
22:01:45 <chris> and definitely busy.
22:02:26 <warlord> fun is good.
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22:19:42 <hampton> jsled: maybe a couple days work. I'm about 2/3 through my list of things to test, and then I need to sync witht the tip of trunk and test again.
22:19:50 <hampton> I just need to make time for it.
22:21:15 <foo> w 3
22:21:39 <jsled> Here's a rough idea: 2.1.x's in March, 2.2 releasing April 1st.
22:21:41 <jsled> :)
22:23:03 <hampton> yeah, that's the ticket. April 1st. If there are any problems we could say the release was an April Fools prank and the real release date is April 15th. :-)
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22:29:30 <warlord> I dont think that allows for enough 2.1 releases... Usually it's a good 2-3 months of testing.
22:33:03 <jsled> True ... though this is a shorter release interval than previous releases.
22:33:18 <jsled> And I'm tempted to say less overall change, though swig is non-trivial.
22:33:19 <warlord> True.
22:33:42 <warlord> swig requires MAJOR testing, because every report needs every option tested!
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23:18:09 <jsled> Damn. When Guitar Hero 2 says Hard, they're not joking around.
23:18:47 <warlord> my issue with guitar hero is that you dont actually have strings or chords...
23:21:38 <jsled> Well sure. If you wanted that, you'd just learn to play the guitar! :)
23:22:14 <warlord> :-P
23:41:45 <prock> oh, you're already going to do the last weekday of month thing.
23:46:39 <prock> jsled: should I bother looking at 392166, 148904, or 106401?
23:47:17 <prock> or will the recurrence switch take care of this? or will anything I do only conflict with the switch to recurrence?
23:49:49 *** warlord is now known as warlord-afk
23:55:10 <hampton> night all
23:55:13 *** hampton is now known as hampton|away