2007-12-10 GnuCash IRC logs
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02:03:33 <warlord> rlaager: what version of gnucash?
02:08:03 <warlord> there have been a bunch of work done on the report in SVN Trunk. If you're running 2.2.1, you could just plug-in the current (trunk) report.
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07:07:21 <manuel> hi
07:07:35 <manuel> anyone from germany there?
07:08:26 <manuel> or does anyone know where to look for a modified invoice.scm that fits for germany?
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08:45:51 <Rol1> Manuel: You are interested in using GnuCash for business in Germany?
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08:46:16 <R0lf> I believe GnuCash is not ready for that
08:46:34 <R0lf> Quite a few people are interested, take a look at the german mailing list
08:46:40 <R0lf> it is also carried on gmane.org
08:49:04 <manuel> sorry, was afk
08:49:08 <manuel> still there?
08:54:17 <R0lf> yes
09:10:17 <manuel> what did you mean by it's not ready yet? what functions aren't included? i thought i could just modify the scm files...
09:11:42 <jsled> <http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=421766> is one way in which it's not quite ready.
09:12:00 <jsled> Though I suppose a report could re-interpret the existing account structure and display it in the required way.
09:12:10 <jsled> (without actually changing the account type hierarchy/constraints)
09:12:43 <jsled> I'm not sure if there already exists a DE-tweaked invoice.scm; if there was, we'd probably want to ship it.
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09:33:11 <AlonzoTG> =\
09:34:02 <AlonzoTG> Gnucash is showing some painful limitations when I try to use it to track things like piles of Copper coins (valuable because the buck is in the toilet), and linden dollars (very tax efficient!).
09:34:21 <AlonzoTG> I was able to create a fun called LD, and XCU, but I couldn't make equity accounts for them.
09:35:26 <jsled> Why not?
09:36:16 <AlonzoTG> u tell, me I didn't write this [um] thing....
09:37:14 <jsled> Oh, Well, I was actually asking in what way you weren't able to, since I can't read you mind or screen...
09:37:36 <AlonzoTG> Okay, step 1: I need to create an asset type for L$'s
09:37:47 <jsled> What's an asset type?
09:37:49 <AlonzoTG> I can't create a currency so therefore I created a virtual fund...
09:38:29 <AlonzoTG> asset types = $ [pound] [euro] [yen] [yuan] [rupie] [dinar]
09:38:31 <jsled> Ah. But you can't create non-asset accounts in !currency.
09:39:22 <AlonzoTG> Okay, I have L$1,852 currently trading at 268/buck
09:39:33 <jsled> Actually, it looks like it's tighter than that... they have to be Stock or Mutual Fund accounts.
09:41:14 <AlonzoTG> =\
09:41:59 <jsled> If you like, you could patch those currencies in a custom build; but we don't support adding currencies right now.
09:42:22 <jsled> They're easy enough to add to src/engine/iso-4217-currencies.scm
09:42:59 <AlonzoTG> !!! /me wants to stick with the gentoo default build....
09:43:13 <AlonzoTG> I REALLY don't want to monkey around with my accounting software...
09:43:21 <AlonzoTG> especially not this close to EOY.
09:44:07 <AlonzoTG> I'm out of time.
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09:44:20 <jsled> You're welcome.
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10:42:05 <Matt> I'm looking to get gnucash to get old stock quotes for a commodity I've recently bought. I've got it set up, and can use the command-line 'gnucash --ad-price-quotes' to get he current quote - is there a way to get historical quotes for this commodity?
10:44:10 <jsled> Matt: <http://lists.gnucash.org/pipermail/gnucash-devel/2007-April/thread.html#20321>; more generally, <http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=site%3Alists.gnucash.org%20historical%20price%20quotes&btnG=Google+Search> might be useful.
10:44:25 <warlord> BIAB
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10:57:37 <Matt> hmm - sounds like this has been a long-running question with no answer that isn't 'rewrite chunks of gnucash/its quote helpers'...
11:09:13 <Matt> Seems the easiest fix for me is going to be a script that just prints the prices in a suitable format which replaces gnc-fq-helper temporarily - thanks for the pointers :)
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12:28:45 <andrewsw> dang... moderators are getting fast! ;)
12:28:52 <andrewsw> mornin'
12:28:54 <warlord> jsled does a good job.
12:29:20 <andrewsw> my picture of jsled gets more and more interesting as time goes on.
12:29:44 <andrewsw> he now hovers over his keyboard with two short cuts ready: 1 for moderation and 1 for "pastebin.ca!!!!"
12:29:52 <jsled> Once I realized that anyone in the "admin" list gets the moderation requests emailed to them, that makes the feedback loop much quicker.
12:30:11 <jsled> heh heh.
12:30:29 <jsled> The experimental neural interface is coming on line shortly! ;)
12:30:35 <andrewsw> LOl
12:30:46 <andrewsw> I need to fix my subscription I guess...
12:31:40 <andrewsw> warlord: svk advice: at what point in the workflow do you fix commit logs? (see 16620 for a bad attempt)
12:32:06 <warlord> andrewsw: I use "svk push --verbatim"
12:32:59 <andrewsw> so you are eliminating local revision info at commit instead of during the push back to svn.g.o?
12:33:10 <andrewsw> IOW, in commit from checkout?
12:33:47 <warlord> Well, I guess it depends what you're doing.
12:34:43 <andrewsw> I've mirrored svn.g.o, made a local branch and work on checkouts from that local branch, committing back to it. I guess I've answered my own question.
12:35:06 <warlord> Yep.
12:35:47 <andrewsw> okay.
12:36:28 <warlord> But when you merge back to the mirror, you can choose to use 'push', or you could use smerge directly into a local WC and then commit it back upstream.
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12:37:23 <andrewsw> I think I used push, but I was under the impression I'd get another opportunity to edit the commit logs before it went upstream with a bunch of local crap in it.
12:37:47 <andrewsw> I was kind of shocked and dismayed to watch it move along with out any interference from me...
12:38:51 <andrewsw> @tell rlaager The latest version of adv port. handles this better, though there are still problems. For best results, use separate txns.
12:38:51 <gncbot> andrewsw: The operation succeeded.
12:38:57 <andrewsw> that's a shot in the dark
12:40:42 <warlord> yeah, using 'push' there's no way to edit the upstream log.
12:40:59 <andrewsw> but smerge allows it? I'll investigate some more.
12:41:51 <warlord> Well, smerge might allow it... I would need to play around with it to figure out the right way to get it to work.
12:42:10 <andrewsw> no point in you doing that. I'm certainly capable ;)
12:42:18 <andrewsw> (unless you want to)
12:42:36 <warlord> Well, I'd be interested in learning how (best) to do it!
12:42:52 <andrewsw> meanwhile andi5 is lobbying for git-svn despite it being incredibly bizarre :P
12:42:59 <andrewsw> I'll report back as I learn.
12:42:59 <warlord> I know he is.
12:43:02 <warlord> Ok
12:47:29 <warlord> andrewsw: why don't you just subscribe to the list from your alternate address, and then turn off mail delivery?
12:47:56 <andrewsw> d'oh!
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12:59:00 <andrewsw> I'm coming to the conclusion that the advanced portfolio can't really do what it tries to do.
13:04:11 <warlord> :(
13:05:40 <andrewsw> there's just not enough information (unless I'm missing something).
13:09:16 <warlord> Well, what additional information do you need?
13:10:23 <andrewsw> heh. I need "why"
13:10:51 <jsled> Action?
13:11:04 <andrewsw> The solution to my problem is to spell out in specific detail in the doc's how to enter different types of transactions.
13:11:09 <andrewsw> or yes jsled Action.
13:11:12 <andrewsw> would help
13:11:14 <jsled> (note that I've read one-half of one sentence of those threads.)
13:11:38 <warlord> Could you key off the Action or the Account Name?
13:11:45 <jsled> literally, the one where someone (you?) said that the report needs to know txn intent.
13:12:02 <andrewsw> the pertinent bit is: from the perspective of the particular stock account, all expenses/income look the same so differentiating purpose is impossible.
13:12:37 <andrewsw> I think keying off Action or Account Name would certainly work, but it requires the user to conform.
13:14:16 <andrewsw> of course so does changing the docs to spell out specific methods of entering transactions.
13:14:47 <warlord> Exactly.
13:15:22 <andrewsw> I guess it's like the lots issue. If it's there, use it, otherwise, guess|fail?
13:15:44 <warlord> Yeah.
13:19:31 <andrewsw> hehe, so you've got encryption sitting in your local branch already? ;)
13:20:46 <warlord> Nope. But for $10k I'd be willing to spend a full day working on it. I doubt it's very hard.
13:20:57 <warlord> (and I HIGHLY doubt the money will show up)
13:21:16 <warlord> But hey, I'll spend the time for $10k
13:22:11 <andrewsw> yeah, I imagine it wouldn't be that hard either, but you know he now thinks you're sitting on it waiting for the bounty...
13:23:12 <warlord> Let him think that.
13:26:08 <warlord> If he reads the logs, he'll see that no, I dont have it sitting, waiting.
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13:53:10 <warlord> andrewsw: if you need to we can extend the "Buy, Sell", etc transaction actions list for you..
13:53:49 <andrewsw> okay. I'll file that away for later. I'm not ready to tackle that part yet.
13:55:30 <warlord> Okay. Adding to the list should be relatively easy.
13:55:32 <warlord> (in C)
13:56:30 <andrewsw> right. My plan is to finish the work started (specifically handle spinoffs). implement lots into basis calcs. *then* probably re-spec the report altogether.
13:56:44 <andrewsw> at that point, expanding/redefining actions would be in order.
13:59:32 <warlord> okay
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14:33:42 <northbone> I want to remove old, no longer used custom reports.
14:33:42 <northbone> Is it as simple as this?
14:33:42 <northbone> In the file saved-reports-2.0 delete the code from
14:33:42 <northbone> one instance of
14:33:43 <northbone> ;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;
14:33:43 <northbone> ;; Options for saved report
14:33:45 <northbone> to the next instance.
14:34:16 <jsled> yes.
14:34:22 <warlord> yes
14:34:29 <northbone> cool. Thanks.
14:34:29 <jsled> Note ~/.gnucash/saved-reports-{1.6,1.8}, as well.
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14:57:04 <northbone> After modifying file saved-reports-2.0, Version: GnuCash-2.2.1 (r16462 built 2007-11-24) hangs displaying "Loading data...". Restoring the file didn't help. Can I delete the saved-reports-2.0 file and get gnucash to open again?
14:57:23 <andrewsw> can you pastebin the file?
14:57:43 <northbone> pastebin?
14:57:56 <andrewsw> http://pastebin.ca
14:57:58 <northbone> I modified file in a text editor (textmate)
14:58:32 <northbone> ah. sure. a minute please.
14:58:49 <andrewsw> the short answer is yes, you can move the file aside (rename it) and reopen gnucash.
14:59:06 <andrewsw> I missed that you restored it already. hmm.... that's interesting.
14:59:17 <jsled> northbone: what OS/distro?
14:59:30 <northbone> wait one
15:00:35 <northbone> http://pastebin.ca/811306
15:01:38 <northbone> Model Name: MacBook
15:01:38 <northbone> Model Identifier: MacBook1,1
15:01:39 <northbone> Processor Name: Intel Core Duo
15:01:39 <northbone> Processor Speed: 2 GHz
15:01:39 <northbone> Number Of Processors: 1
15:01:39 <northbone> Total Number Of Cores: 2
15:01:41 <northbone> L2 Cache: 2 MB
15:01:43 <northbone> Memory: 2 GB
15:01:47 <northbone> OS 10.5 Leopard
15:01:55 <northbone> Installed via Fink
15:03:03 <northbone> will try moving file. BRB
15:03:26 <jsled> It'd be useful if you can run it from the terminal as `gnucash --logto stderr` and see what's on the console when it breaks?
15:05:31 <northbone> moving file produced same results
15:05:39 <northbone> will try err
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15:09:10 <northbone> didn't find any error messages. maybe I'm looking in the wrong place.
15:09:25 <jsled> did you run it from the terminal, as I suggested?
15:12:24 <andi5> warlord: 12k and you do it it 20 hours? ;-)
15:15:22 <warlord> andi5: Something like that, yeah. ;)
15:16:02 <northbone> http://pastebin.ca/811317 is system log
15:16:27 <northbone> jsled: Yes. Looking for output.
15:16:43 <jsled> northbone: woah.
15:16:55 <jsled> northbone: when you run it as I said, the output should be right there in front of you.
15:17:04 <northbone> will do again.
15:17:08 <jsled> northbone: did it not print *anything* to the terminal?
15:17:47 <northbone> bash-$ gnucash
15:17:48 <northbone> gnc.bin-Message: main: binreloc relocation support was disabled at configure time.
15:17:48 <northbone> Found Finance::Quote version 1.13
15:18:06 <warlord> northbone: I think he wanted you to run: gnucash --logto stderr
15:18:09 <jsled> a) Please pastebin.
15:18:15 <jsled> b) yeah; that's not the command I gave you.
15:18:24 <northbone> It also leaves the splash screen (unmovable) in middle of display.
15:18:31 <northbone> You're right. Sorry. Will do again.
15:19:39 <andi5> andrewsw: too bad, it seems you found out how to use svk :(
15:20:22 <jsled> heh
15:20:27 <andrewsw> andi5: heh. I'm still open to suggestion... I don't yet have the best sol'n there yet.
15:20:41 <andi5> andrewsw: /me is here to help you with git-svn
15:20:52 <andi5> and i guess jsled will help me when i do not know the answer
15:20:52 <andrewsw> :)
15:21:23 <northbone> http://pastebin.ca/811320
15:21:27 <jsled> Oh, I guess I better start actually using it, then. :)
15:21:28 * warlord still likes svk, but that's only because I haven't tried git-svn at all. The syntax just seems so different.
15:21:49 <andrewsw> so long as I don't become a birdie in a dueling-DVCS debate...
15:21:58 <andi5> lol
15:22:33 <jsled> northbone: Huh. The "--logto stderr" should prevent this, but is there anything in /tmp/gnucash.trace?
15:22:45 <northbone> I'll look.
15:23:56 <northbone> jsled: /tmp/gnucash.trace: No such file or directory and same for ~/tmp ...
15:24:30 <jsled> good good. Try `gnucash --logto stderr --debug --log gnc.scm=debug`, maybe?
15:25:04 * jsled (guesses it's scheme related ... it might not be)
15:25:21 * jsled . o O ( foo )
15:25:23 <jsled> hee
15:25:51 <warlord> heh
15:27:00 <northbone> jsled: http://pastebin.ca/811326
15:28:02 <jsled> And at that point it's hanging?
15:28:08 <northbone> yup
15:28:25 <northbone> splash screen says loading data ...
15:28:48 <warlord> What happens if you try: gnucash --nofile
15:28:56 <warlord> then, once the app opens, go File -> Open
15:28:59 <warlord> and select your data file.
15:29:00 <jsled> yeah
15:31:36 <northbone> jsled: http://pastebin.ca/811330 opened, then crashed. Try previous save?
15:32:16 <jsled> Those custom reports you removed earlier ... did you have any still open?
15:32:34 <jsled> I'm going to bet you did, and we're not handling it very gracefully.
15:32:38 <andrewsw> bigno
15:32:40 <andrewsw> bingo
15:32:51 <warlord> andrewsw: bingo?
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15:33:05 <northbone> jsled: probably. Almost certainly.
15:33:22 <jsled> northbone: can you pastebin your ~/.gnucash/books/«datafile base name», please?
15:33:28 <andrewsw> jsled articulated what I was thinking but couldn't put into intelligible words.
15:34:23 <warlord> Ah
15:35:38 <northbone> jsled: http://pastebin.ca/811334
15:36:10 <northbone> andrewsw: I like bigno better ;)
15:36:17 <andrewsw> hehe
15:36:27 <andrewsw> page 6
15:39:05 <northbone> I deleted "Balance Sheet YTD". "Balance Sheet YTD 1.1" was probably open.
15:39:16 <jsled> yup.
15:40:05 <andrewsw> he has to fix PageCount, PageOrder?
15:40:13 <jsled> So, remove the whole [page 6] stanza and ... yup.
15:40:39 <andrewsw> assuming that works, why did it fail when he restored the saved-reports file?
15:40:48 <jsled> That, I don't know.
15:42:52 * northbone sits at base of Denali - the great mountain waiting in awe for pronouncements from 22k feet.
15:43:32 * andrewsw holds that is not a valid reason for the crash... ;)
15:47:11 <jsled> northbone: how goes?
15:48:06 <northbone> jsled: waiting for what to do next. Don't know what pagecount, etc mean
15:48:22 <jsled> Oh, sorry.
15:48:42 <jsled> In that file, you should remove the whole stanza that starts with [Page 6]
15:49:08 <jsled> Then, back up at the top, edit the PageCount and PageOrder bits of [Window 1] to remove references to page 6.
15:49:31 <jsled> Er, like so: http://pastebin.ca/811347
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15:50:51 <northbone> no open file from gnucash?
15:50:56 <northbone> now ...
15:50:56 <jsled> hmm?
15:51:00 <jsled> Yeah.
15:51:04 <northbone> ok
15:51:09 <northbone> brb
15:55:03 <andrewsw> warlord: `svk smerge -l //gnucash/local-branch //gnucash/mirror` allows editting of the log and pre-populates with the commit messages used in local revisions.
15:55:40 <warlord> Neat!
15:56:13 <northbone> jsled: http://pastebin.ca/811352 is current version of fcbandbooks file from .gnucash.
15:56:23 <northbone> same result as before -- hangs
15:57:18 <jsled> Anything printed to the terminal, this time?
15:58:18 <northbone> Nope.
15:58:31 <northbone> I ran just gnucash no options.
16:01:04 <andrewsw> how do I get permissions on bugzilla? do you guys do that or do I ask through #bugs?
16:01:46 <warlord> I think we can take care of that.
16:02:05 <northbone> all: what, if anything else, do you guys need preserved?
16:02:23 <andrewsw> warlord: feel free to sit on that until I've earned a little more cred.
16:02:57 <jsled> northbone: hmm. I'm not sure. It's really weird that it's hanging at that point.
16:03:06 <warlord> andrewsw: what's your bugzilla account name?
16:03:24 <jsled> northbone: I would personally want to attach to it with GDB and see where it's executing
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16:03:38 <andrewsw> warlord: andrew@swclan.homelinux.org
16:04:10 <warlord> Okay, done
16:04:15 <andrewsw> *g*
16:04:44 <northbone> jsled: I'm clueless, as usual, about what that meant. :|
16:04:49 <andrewsw> mwuhahahahahaha!!!!!!!!
16:05:19 <jsled> northbone: Presumably, it's doing *something*, not just sitting there. GDB is the debugger. One could run gdb, attach to to hung gnucash, pause it, and ask what code it's executing.
16:06:25 <andi5> andrewsw: is there any reason not to apply your work to 2.2 at a stable revision before releasing 2.2.2? pretending that the report is a bug? ;-)
16:07:11 <northbone> jsled: I can send the data file. There's account data and some names in it, but it's a non-profit small band.
16:07:52 <jsled> northbone: if you do, I'd be happy to try to reproduce; I will be discrete with the data, of course.
16:08:16 <northbone> lemme look at the file size.
16:08:25 <andrewsw> andi5: IOW, backport my fixes? no reason I can think of. Considering how many outstanding bugs there are... I think it would be reasonable.
16:08:38 <andrewsw> andi5: I certainly haven't made it any *more* broken than it was.
16:08:39 <andi5> jsled: like advertising it via bittorrent completely anonymously?
16:08:50 <jsled> bigno! ;)
16:08:57 <andrewsw> LOL!!!
16:09:41 <northbone> jsled: file is 60k. Need anything else?
16:10:15 <andi5> i have not followed the discussion, but is this about a possibly macos-specific bug?
16:10:25 <andi5> if you want it fixed, just send me a macbook ;-)
16:10:31 <jsled> northbone: with the books file from pastebin, I think that's all.
16:11:43 <northbone> jsled: now I have to figure out how to transfer files with this thing. I don't use it much.
16:11:55 <jsled> northbone: Oh, email's probably better anyways.
16:12:02 <andrewsw> kermit?
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16:12:10 <jsled> z-modem?
16:12:15 <andrewsw> x-modem!!
16:12:25 <northbone> OK. Address?
16:12:31 <northbone> OIC
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16:12:38 * andrewsw looks up 3 lines
16:12:38 <andi5> huhuuuu david :)
16:12:48 <dbreiser> hi :)
16:13:09 <jsled> northbone: just to be clear, this file was opening fine (and quickly) before the custom-reports removal, right?
16:13:28 <northbone> yes
16:14:00 <dbreiser> I've only quickly scanned the logs, but I'm betting on the mac problem opening a file that gnucash thinks is still locked
16:14:10 <dbreiser> if so, then
16:14:13 <jsled> Oh!
16:14:16 <andi5> ha!
16:14:21 <dbreiser> gnucash --nofile ought to solve it
16:14:22 <andrewsw> woah!
16:14:43 <jsled> Or remove the lockfile?
16:14:48 <dbreiser> that too
16:14:49 <northbone> It does solve loading the program
16:15:16 <andi5> == jsled, i would say
16:15:29 <dbreiser> still hangs when manually opening data file?
16:15:34 <northbone> yes
16:15:52 <dbreiser> hmm. then I'm not correct
16:15:59 <dbreiser> listen to jsled
16:16:07 <dbreiser> he knows what he's doing...
16:16:18 <northbone> Can I open previous versin (as in log) without first opening main file?
16:16:35 <dbreiser> as in xac
16:16:41 <jsled> Try removing the lockfile, first... it should have the same name, but with .LCK or .LNK at the end.
16:17:38 <andi5> i think .lnk should not hurt, but i am not 100% sure
16:18:12 <andrewsw> andi5: justification for backport: bugzilla #460232 is fixed by r16620.
16:18:18 <northbone> I removed lockfile, open with --nofile, opened data file successfully.
16:18:28 <andrewsw> w00t!
16:18:31 <northbone> With 5 open windows, BTW
16:18:58 <northbone> Nice to see the data again. Wonder what is in custom reports.
16:19:36 <andi5> andrewsw: as long as you mention all bug ids in the commit logs, it is easy to backport your work and compile reasonable release notes... if you left out some, just tell us @gnc-devel
16:19:47 <northbone> Oh, yeah. I renamed the reports file.
16:20:03 <andrewsw> andi5: I'm still digging through them, it may close quite a lot.
16:20:14 <andi5> northbone: do you now know again what company you are working for? ;-)
16:20:48 <andi5> andrewsw: would be cool if you marked duplicates appropriate... :)
16:20:59 <northbone> andi5: yeah. I'm retired! heh
16:21:06 <andi5> northbone: hehe
16:21:09 <northbone> Treasurer for non-profit community band.
16:21:13 <andrewsw> andi5: should I block on the backport bug?
16:21:20 <andi5> you might
16:22:13 <andrewsw> I need a primer on that stuff.
16:22:21 <andi5> andrewsw: make sure your bug blocks backport and not the other way around :)
16:22:45 <andrewsw> IOW put backport's # in my bug's "Blocks" box
16:22:57 <andi5> yep
16:23:09 <andrewsw> should my bug then be marked FIXED? or left open?
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16:23:37 <andi5> it will be fixed when the backport has been done (at least i think that is common process) ... you can mark patches as committed though
16:23:43 <andi5> hiho father :)
16:23:49 <cstim> hi all
16:24:05 <jsled> Papa Stimming! :)
16:24:12 <andrewsw> hey hey !! :)
16:27:18 <cstim> andi5: any presents on the way already?
16:27:37 <andi5> none i know of
16:27:47 <andi5> nobody likes me ;-)
16:28:08 <cstim> of course everyone does!
16:28:16 * andrewsw likes andi5
16:28:23 <andrewsw> tee hee hee
16:28:25 * cstim needs to discuss how to handle the Schnuller (passifier) tonight
16:28:27 <andi5> haha
16:28:33 <andi5> hehe
16:28:40 <cstim> see ya
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16:28:43 <andi5> ciao
16:34:49 * northbone says thanks to all. I'm outta here.
16:34:59 <jsled> northbone: take care.
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17:40:42 <andrewsw> cya
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21:18:16 <ttick> How do I set the starting balance for an already created account?
21:18:39 <jsled> Just create an appropriately-dated transaction against Equity:Opening Balances
21:18:51 <ttick> ah, okay.
21:18:53 <ttick> thanks.
21:19:28 <jsled> you're welcome
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21:21:54 <ttick> sorry about the junior questions, but why Equity and not Asset?
21:22:29 <jsled> Asset would imply a balance transfer ... like from checking to Savings, or something.
21:23:05 <jsled> Starting balances generally, instead, just already exist ... they come from the past.
21:23:11 <ttick> Ah. So my initial starting balance of my Mortgage should be a negative opening balance against Equity:Opening?
21:23:16 <jsled> And the way to represent "existing" in accounting is Equity.
21:23:42 <jsled> If you've not, you should definitely read the Tutorial and Concepts Guide.
21:23:57 <ttick> I have twice. Maybe I'll go back to that.
21:24:05 <jsled> If you're starting a new mortgage, then it'd be a Liability/Assets transfer.
21:24:17 <jsled> If you just want to jump into the middle of a mortgage, then Equity, yes.
21:24:28 <ttick> I get the general idea of income -> assest - liability ->expense. I'm just having trouble applying it to my real finances.
21:24:56 <jsled> Think of it this way ... if you're starting your books at 1/1/2008, and you have $100k in the bank, and the rest of your mortgage is $100k... then your networth/equity sums to $0.
21:25:13 <jsled> Which would balance out between the Equity -> Assets and Equity -> Liability transactions to setup the books.
21:25:55 <ttick> Ah. okay. I understood Equity as the forumla (A - L), just wasn't sure when I'd apply something directly to Equity. But you've definately helped.
21:25:58 <jsled> Now, bear in mind that there's the Equity *account*, and the instantaneous value of your equity, which is a function of running a report which will compute the current equity
21:26:47 <ttick> I'm just starting gnucash. And I have a few accounts that I've imported in QIF from banks, etc. Some are from 90 days back, some are from 500days back. Trying to get my current balances correct right now.
21:30:10 <ttick> So, I guess I make an Asset:House with the estimated value of my house with an initial balance applyed to my Equity:Opening (or Equity:House)? So it doesn't look like I'm downing in debt due to my mortgage?
21:30:21 <jsled> Right. :)
21:30:26 <ttick> *phew*
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21:32:06 <ttick> I followed the example of the Austrian currency thing, but it quickly got irrelevant for me (stocks in different currencies, etc). I wish there were a "typical case" example: Bank account, credit card, mortgage, student loan, car loan, donations, loan to friend, etc. No need to be fancy.
21:33:54 <andrewsw> ttick: Excuse me butting in. One way to look at Equity, the account, is that it's the sum total of everything up to "now" where "now" is some arbitrary date at which you're starting to keep your books. Beyond "now" you are keeping records of all the transactions and computing Equity, the value, from those transactions.
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21:35:17 <ttick> andrewsw: thanks. That definately helps.
21:39:56 <ttick> okay, another question: when I import a QIF or QXF file, sometimes there are transactions in red -- yet i know they are not duplicates, since each QIF represents a month. What does this mean?
21:40:36 <elb> ttick: http://svn.gnucash.org/docs/guide/loans_mortgage1.html
21:41:10 <elb> the concepts guide is generally very good
21:41:40 <ttick> elb: ooh, thanks.
21:42:02 <ttick> elb: exactly what I'm looking for.
21:43:36 <ttick> btw: is it unusual to get excited about finally putting all your money in an accounting package?
21:43:44 <elb> haha
21:43:47 <andrewsw> not at all! ;)
21:43:49 <elb> no, I don't think so ;-)
21:44:35 <warlord> I dunno, I was excited about it.. But I'm about 9 months behind on entering my actual 401(k) acquisitions.
21:44:52 <andrewsw> I guess it wears off after a while.
21:44:52 <warlord> (It's just a pain to enter all the splits)
21:45:28 <warlord> Honestly (I'm bad!) I only started using gnucash for my personal finances as of 1/1/2007. Granted, I've been using it for my business since... 2002?
21:45:40 <andrewsw> whoa-ho!
21:46:17 <elb> I'm excited every time I use it
21:46:24 <elb> provided I'm not wanting to set it on fire
21:46:31 <elb> (that is, provided I'm not dealing with stocks)
21:46:42 * andrewsw hides
21:46:57 <elb> oh, are you involved with stocks?
21:47:08 <elb> maybe you can tell my why scrubbing my lots asses EVERYTHING up
21:47:27 <andrewsw> I broke the advanced portfolio report between 1.8 and 2.0 somewhere. Now I'm trying to fix it.
21:47:32 <warlord> elb: Because Lots are broken
21:47:34 <andrewsw> nope, I haven't touched lots.
21:47:46 <elb> warlord: that's simple enough
21:47:51 <elb> so, I should just ignore them entirely?
21:47:57 <warlord> Yep.
21:48:25 <andrewsw> really? so my plan to implement lots in basis calculations is a bust?
21:48:40 <ttick> I used to use Quicken back in 1996-8. Then went totally Linux. Gnucash was a little . . . raw for me back then, so i quit doing it. This program has made great progress.
21:49:54 <warlord> Yeah, gnucash was VERY raw back then. I started looking/developing it in 1999
21:50:26 <elb> I've used gnucash off and on since about 1999, with hiatuses when I got too far behind to be bothered with catching up
21:50:43 <elb> it has certainly come a long way
21:50:45 <elb> and I like it a lot
21:51:15 <ttick> I'm definately warming to it.
21:51:37 <andrewsw> I transferred my business from QB in 2004. I'm very comfortable. GOt my wife switched last year when I declared I was done supporting windows
21:51:55 <warlord> Anyways, I need to head to dinner. Bye all.
21:52:03 <andrewsw> cya warlord !
21:52:20 <warlord> chao
21:52:22 <warlord> ciao
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23:17:22 <andrewsw> g'night all
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