2009-01-22 GnuCash IRC logs

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00:11:10 <fell> ping
00:44:42 <jsled> namespace header?
00:48:04 <fell> in the account templates
00:48:31 <fell> I have different headers in different files.
00:48:56 <fell> Is somewhere an "official" index?
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00:50:11 <jsled> like the xmlns business?
00:50:18 <jsled> Doesn't matter; not used by the parser.
00:50:19 <fell> yeah
00:50:52 <fell> :-(
00:51:01 <jsled> why do you care?
00:51:11 <jsled> or, why does that make you sad?
00:51:17 <fell> german correctness ;-)
00:51:51 <jsled> Heh heh. Funny, I was looking through a couple of files to see a difference, and thought "I'll check accounts/de_DE/ … those'll have xmlns."
00:52:22 <jsled> If you feel like adding it, awesome; the files will then be more better. But the code doesn't care.
00:52:47 <jsled> All the XML code is before XML namespaces were even adopted, let alone "well" known.
00:53:35 <fell> Today is my template day. first for all dutch speaking people, now for the german clubs.
00:56:16 <fell> one has an entry with only xmlns="http://www.gnucash.org/XML/"
00:58:19 <fell> and another one with gnc-act
00:58:24 <jsled> I'd believe it. The urls are really just unique strings. The purist in me would want them to resolve to like an html page that linked to XSD or RNG schema, and with actual prose description for humans, and maybe even some fancy RDF-parseable mumble shit.
00:58:25 <jsled> But it's all shit.
00:59:08 <jsled> If the parser even cared, all that matters are that the namespace URLs are the same.
00:59:52 <fell> OK, Target Milestone GC 9.x
01:00:14 <jsled> If you want a list of all namespaces used, the top of <http://svn.gnucash.org/repo/gnucash/trunk/src/doc/xml/gnucash-v2.rnc> has it.
01:00:45 <jsled> At least, as of checking a couple of years ago. But nothing's really changed since then.
01:02:43 <fell> then I will take that.
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01:53:53 <Harfang> hi, is there a way to setup what is the "account" to be used we do not enter anything in the field? Such as "expense" and so on?
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04:08:04 <fell> zzz
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09:52:03 <gbrethen> ok, need help trying to get gnucash and ofx working
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10:33:29 <chrisrossi> Anybody here using OFX to download with American Express Card? I can't seem to get it to work.
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10:41:29 <chrisrossi> 3:2009/01/22 10-23-27:gwen(2251):io_tls.c: 1154: gnutls_handshake: -9 (A TLS packet with unexpected length was received.) [fatal]
10:41:30 <chrisrossi> 3:2009/01/22 10-23-27:(null)(2251):provider.c: 659: Error exchanging getAccounts-request (-66)
10:41:30 <chrisrossi> 3:2009/01/22 10-23-27:qt3_wizard(2251):cfgtabpageuserofx.cpp: 283: Error requesting account list
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11:17:09 <mulicheng> src/import-export/ofx/gnc-ofx-import.c:564 (2.2.8) "WRITEME: ofx_proc_account() Fill in the account type, default name, currency etc"
11:17:37 <mulicheng> Would this be the reason why when I try to import an ofx file that there is no account name, type etc on the new file dialog?
11:17:47 <mulicheng> Instead, the Account name has USD and currency is blank.
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14:29:05 <arussel> when I create a new account, I can have an opening balance. How can I set an opening balance on an existing account ?
14:29:05 <gncbot> arussel: Sent 1 day, 22 hours, and 32 minutes ago: <fell> You should set the environment variable e.g. LANG=fr_FR (have a look look at te documentation for detail)
14:31:09 <jsled> arussel: make an appropriately-dated transactino against Equity:Opening Balances
14:33:15 <arussel> jsled: thanks
14:39:56 <arussel> I try to create a transaction: select in the transfer column an account, but when saving it tells me the account doesn't exist ...
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14:44:16 <arussel> it looks like it doesn't understand long name or something. are they limitation on account name ?
14:46:16 <arussel> the message is: The account Classe 6: COMPTES DE CHARGES:60: Achats de matières et fournitures:601: Eau does not exist. Would you like to create it?
14:46:22 <arussel> is the name too long ?
14:46:38 <jsled> I believe the only real limitiation is a bug that you can't use the separator character as part of the name of an account. Like if the seperator is "/", you couldn't have "Assets/Savings/Loan" and expect it to be parsed as "{Assets}/{Savings/Loan}".
14:46:56 <jsled> Yeah, those ':' conflict with the default account separator ':'.
14:47:02 <jsled> Try changing the account separator in the preferences.
14:50:10 <arussel> that solved the pb, thanks jsled
14:51:03 <jsled> oh, good. Was a bit of a guess.
14:51:09 <jsled> well, educated guess, anyways.
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14:56:39 <warlord> ah, yeah, that issue.
15:33:07 <joslwah> Any comments about the LWN article about accounting systems?
15:34:28 <mulicheng> I read it.
15:34:37 <mulicheng> I agree with what he said.
15:36:15 <joslwah> I was thinking about it, and wondering whether the solution is more to have some common export format, and another application that turns such numbers into the forms required by different governments around the world.
15:37:29 <joslwah> It strikes me as the unix way, to have each system do exactly what is needed, and then chain systems together.
15:37:38 <mulicheng> There will be no common format until there are two-three big players who want to be compatible.
15:38:16 <mulicheng> Seems like everyone I've been associated with only cared about how to export the Quickbooks accountant copy.
15:38:51 <joslwah> Well, what do accountants use between each other?
15:38:58 <joslwah> Why not adopt that format?
15:39:25 <mulicheng> undocumented owned by Intuit.
15:39:31 <mulicheng> unless there is something else.
15:39:37 <mulicheng> I'm not an accountant.
15:39:58 <joslwah> I'm guessing that most accountants wouldn't know either. They just use it, which is fair enough.
15:40:34 <mulicheng> How many accountants use something besides quickbooks? Unless they work specifically for a huge corp that has their own internal system.
15:41:15 <joslwah> No idea. I'm not an accountant, nor do I go near them. 8-)
15:42:14 <joslwah> In a sense. If GnuCash created such a standard format, and had a project that imported it and produced the tables needed. How would that work?
15:42:23 <joslwah> Then other projects could use it too.
15:42:44 <joslwah> It would want to be a command-line driven project, so that each other system could use it in their own way.
15:43:37 <mulicheng> I think the gist of the LWN article was that the data requirements change from year to year, and they are often trivial and it's time consuming to learn all the ins/outs of what is required.
15:43:55 <mulicheng> the effect is that it's not suited well for OS developers to build/maintain.
15:44:13 <mulicheng> tax forms for instance, they change every year almost.
15:44:35 <mulicheng> in addition, corporations that do this stuff have big legal teams to make sure the devs get it right.
15:45:19 <mulicheng> there is the question of culpability.
15:46:14 <mulicheng> So basically, whomever volunteers to create such a project is volunteering to maintain it at the start of every tax season ever after or it will immediately become useless.
16:01:31 <joslwah> Yeah. But if there were various projects that could get together to do it.....
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16:39:06 <mulicheng> Coordinating multiple projects with ever changing data is surely to be much more error prone and likely to fail than just one project.
17:00:44 <joslwah> That's why you have a standard, fixed exchange format. Then the different projects can all pitch in to the "report project".
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17:04:18 <mulicheng> Step 1) find the format all the accountants use. Step 2) get the company that is in charge of that to agree to standardize it Step 3) get enough people interested in a "reporting" project to agree to maintain it every year.
17:04:33 <mulicheng> 2 is hard.
18:00:15 <joslwah> mulicheng, Yep. I actually think you'd have to come up with your own standard. There is nothing in it for the company that is in charge to open it.
18:01:13 <mulicheng> Exactly my point. say you come up with your own standard, you then have to convince everyone to use it.
18:01:38 <mulicheng> but unless you provide the same support and level of functionality they already get, they won't switch.
18:02:01 <mulicheng> and back to the LVM article, you'd have a very difficult time providing that in an OS setting.
18:06:48 <joslwah> I was thinking that the different projects got together to do it, and agree on the format. So they could all share the benefits and people could choose the general package most suited to them.
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18:08:37 <Bob> My question is the following...how many people work on the Gnucash project, and are you guys paid for your work?
18:08:52 <warlord> answering second question first: no
18:09:02 <Bob> :)
18:09:51 <Bob> it would be nice if you were because it is a good product
18:10:22 <warlord> No arguments here.
18:11:44 <Bob> anyone for my first question?
18:14:11 <jsled> There's probably 8-10 people with commit access, and ~5 people who have committed serious stuff in the last 2 months.
18:14:49 <jsled> though that number only goes up to 6 if I look back for a few more months.
18:15:12 <jsled> though a number of those commits are patches from other people via bugzilla
18:15:20 <jsled> and/or translations
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18:25:23 <Bob> that is cool, good job on the translation (I personnaly use the French translation)
18:26:19 <Bob> have a good night, and may you be paid in the future!!
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20:03:33 <magenpie> using ff i suddenly can't d/l qfx files from bank
20:08:05 <magenpie> at first i thought it might be a pop-up issue but since nothing has changed i think it must be something else
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20:17:20 <magenpie> i can d/l other files
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20:23:49 <jpeach> Who maintains the gnucash.org site? On the homepage there is a link to the windows binaries. There should also be a link to the getdeb site (http://www.getdeb.net/app/GnuCash) so debian users can access the latest version which is not in the debian repositories.
20:25:53 <andrewsw> I have not seen getdeb. are these actually debian packages or *buntu packages?
20:26:20 <andrewsw> they look like *buntu packages to me.
20:27:46 <andrewsw> I'm not sure, but it looks like we only link to things that we actually host or have direct control over.
20:28:15 <andrewsw> I'd say you're certainly welcome to provide the link on the wiki, and you may get better response if you post this to -devel.
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20:36:46 <magenpie> ff is set to save file for qfx
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20:40:31 <andrewsw> magenpie: I'm not sure how we can help you.
20:41:21 <magenpie> i know it's not a problem with gnucash...just was hoping that maybe someone else had encountered this problem with ff and/or their bank
20:41:46 <andrewsw> I would say the first thing to check is to make sure that the url is correct. is it giving you an error or what?
20:42:34 <magenpie> no error...just nothing happens
20:43:05 <magenpie> was working fine as usual last week
20:43:24 <magenpie> i guess i'll call the bank tomorrow and see if it's on their end
20:43:32 <andrewsw> have you tried something a little simpler, like maybe wget or curl? that might provide some more useable output
20:44:09 <magenpie> let me think how to do that
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20:44:24 <andrewsw> wget <insert url here>
20:45:09 <magenpie> doing that now...one sec
20:47:13 <andrewsw> magenpie: that's really all I can offer, so stick around in case someone else comes along. I gotta go. good luck
20:47:42 *** fell_afk is now known as fell
20:47:47 <magenpie> ty
20:48:13 <fell> ping ip should be the first
20:48:43 <andrewsw> hi fell! you are right of course.
20:49:12 <fell> Nice to hear you again
20:50:28 <magenpie> wget connects but the qfx file isn't downloaded
20:50:43 <andrewsw> fell: likewise, but I gotta run. I'll catch you next time.
20:51:13 <fell> CU, andrewsw
20:52:07 <fell> magenpie; some errormessage on your console?
20:52:36 <magenpie> all that's being downloaded is the sign in page
20:52:50 <magenpie> i can't get a link to the file
20:53:45 <fell> sign in page, so you are not lofgged in.
20:54:21 <magenpie> but i am
20:54:55 <magenpie> i go to the d/l page, r-c on quicken, get the url and give to wget
20:54:56 <fell> to login your command should be somewhat like wget https://username:passwd@server.dom
20:55:02 <magenpie> ah
20:55:29 <magenpie> try again
20:59:03 <fell> or better wget --user=xxx --password=yyy url
20:59:49 <fell> wget --help shows many options
21:00:29 <magenpie> ok
21:01:14 <magenpie> i'll get it
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