Design Decisions

[Charles Goodwin]

Linas Vepstas wrote:

> On Thu, Aug 28, 2003 at 04:18:42PM +0100, Charles Goodwin was heard to remark:
>>has taken.  It was an uncompromising vision that Havoc and other leading 
> 
> Havoc is paid work on Gnome full-time.  I am not.  I have a house, 2
> kids, and need to maintain a web site, do the backups, handle the
> network issues, as well as write  code. I manage 5-10 hours a week.
> 
> Gnucash has zero full-time, paid developers. Gnome has many dozens.

...and is a much bigger project than GnuCash.

> I guess you don't like http://gnucash/en/roadmap.phtml
> (which hasn't changed in 2-3 years, and no one seems to comment on?)

Yes, read it.  No, not impressed.  Like you say, 2-3 years old.  And 
it's just a few 'feature requests'.  It's not a roadmap.

> There is a difference between 'vision', 'strategy' and 'plan'.
> 
> "We want this and that in the next release" is a plan.
> Roadmaps are things that the marketing team trots out to keep customers
> appeased while the engineers work on the next version. Engineers
> don't pay attention to roadmaps.  They follow the plan.

So what is the target of your plan?  Planning a few feature additions 
without addressing and reservations you might have means that the 
codebase convolutes with to adjust to each feature addition.  You end up 
at a point where making major changes is that difficult that it's an 
unmanageable task.  That's where GnuCash seems to be according to your 
'state of the project' plea.

You evidently have some issues otherwise people would contribute to 
GnuCash given it's critical nature in the bigger picture of Free Software.

> I did. We have *three* client server implementations (RPC, HTTP, SQL). 
> No one cared.

Well where is this mentioned on the website?  I just looked.  Nada. 
Nowhere.

http://www.gnucash.org/en/search.phtml?words=rpc&sort=sort

If you don't tell people about features, how do you expect them to know 
and use them, let alone care?

> First of all, there already is a separation between the gui and the
> engine and if you'd studied http://gnucash/en/architecture.phtml
> you would know this.

I could debate some semantics here from the descriptions of different 
'components'... (what is 'glue' code?  why is the interface module 
'glue' code?  It should be an interface.)

> Secondly, the separation between engine and GUI is orthogonal to 
> client-server.  Client-server is a statement about network technology,
> and not about application design.  Client-server is a set of design
> priniples that allows multiple users to access a single database.
> Alsmot all gnucash users use it in single-user mode, which is why
> they don't care about client-server.

You've no idea how much potential you're missing out on.  Is GnuCash a 
personal finance manager or aimed at the Enterprise?  Only SMEs tend to 
have just 1 person doing the accounting.

Whilst you are correct in your assertion of client<>server differing 
from gui<>app separation, client<>server tends to force the gui<>app 
separation (if done correctly).

> Excuse me, I'm getting irritated. You are making harsh criticisms,
> while also making it clear that you don't know the meaning of some
> of the fancy words that you are using.

Well, I've not being using anything fancy. :)

I apologise if I come across as critical.  I'm trying to stir passionate 
debate as that 'state of the project' kind of upset me.  My inadequate C 
skills and non-interest in Scheme mean that stirring passionate debate 
is the best way for me to contribute as it evidently has gotten you 
thinking.

> Where's the gnome2 and the abiword roadmaps?
> 
> And haven't you noticed that mozilla is what, 5 years late?

Well, that's an indication of what a mess the Netscape codebase was.  I 
have increasingly good faith that GnuCash is nowhere close to having 
such problems.

Also, like Gnome, Mozilla is a bigger project than GnuCash.  Hence I 
brought up AbiWord.

WRT AbiWord, I'll get back to you.  I've run out of time to reply fully.

> If you, the owner, can't be bothered to maintain your headlights, don't
> complain to me. Yeah, we'll try to make a better headlight in the
> future, but that's just one small item on a long list.

There is sadly only 24 hours in the day. :(

- Charlie