Giving up on Gnucash

[Bryan Phinney]

On Friday 22 April 2005 21:36, you wrote:

> > Exactly what do you hope to gain by doing so?
>
> Believe it or not, constructive criticism and product improvement. If
> all the developers ever hear is, "Yay! Attaboy!" then how will they know
> what needs to be improved?

Actually, I know that many people make requests, ask for specific features, 
and offer criticism without announcing that they are abandoning the 
application.  So again, my point would be that you gain nothing by making 
such an announcement except to make yourself look like a self-centered 
narcisist.  Not the best way to go about getting someone to address your 
concerns, at least IMHO.

> How many people do you think dl an app like GC, try it out for a while,
> and then abandon it without saying anything?

Probably on an order of the people that try out MS Money and abandon it, or 
Quicken, or any other personal finance app.

> I would imagine that Derek, Josh, Neil, et al are at least somewhat
> interested, for whatever reason, in having others use and appreciate
> their work. Otherwise, why release it publicly? They could just form a
> little club, use it themselves, and the hell with everybody else.

They might be interested in the critique, probably more so without the 
dramatics.  However, I really doubt that too many are interested in whether 
you use Gnucash or not.  And if I were a betting man, I would bet that a 
reasoned post, with requests and constructive critiques of functionality from 
someone who obviously spent the time to try to find solutions and offer 
encouragement, or even a donation or two, would probably be much more well 
received and likely to produce actual results than your little post.

>    If your goal was to ask one of the developers to address your
>
> > issues, you could simply have posted a list of requests, asked if they
> > might be considered and waited for a reply.
>
> Been there done that. But at some point you have to decide whether you
> are willing to wait.

I do understand that you might not be willing to wait, however, I fail to see 
where your particular announcement that you are leaving Gnucash will provide 
a different result.  If suddenly, everyone is jumping to address your 
particular points or rushes to beg you not to leave, color me surprised.

> > few peons like me will still be here waiting for the improvements.  And I
> > swear now that if I ever feel something lacking in Gnucash, even if for
> > some reason, I decide that I want to use something different, I won't
> > make some melodramatic announcement of my departure to the list.
>
> In which case they won't know why and won't have any feedback for
> improvement. 

Wrong, they will have heard my original requests and critiques without the 
added melodrama of my announcing in a public forum, my intent to abandon 
Gnucash.  And why don't you leave politics out of this, you are doing a well 
enough job trolling for flames without it.

> > At any rate, announcing that you no longer wish to use a product
> > automatically disqualifies anything that you point out as being simply
> > sour grapes or pointless trolling.  Pointless as in, who the happy
> > hunting grounds really cares what package you use for your personal
> > finance?  Besides yourself and perhaps your accountant.  If you aren't on
> > the team, I don't care what features or problems you have with your
> > personal finance app.
>
> Microsoft, Intuit, etc. care. You may have just accidently pointed out
> the Achilles hill in open-source software. The lack of a
> customer-oriented relationship. "If you like it, great. If you don't,
> who gives a **** what you think?"

Gee, you really can't get any more dense can you?  No, the real point is if 
you are a customer and want to contribute and help out, like any member of a 
community does, we care about what you think.  If you want to be a whiny git 
who runs back to a commercial package as soon as someone doesn't drop 
everything to address your needs, without even the patience or good grace to 
encourage them to do so, who gives a **** what you think.  And to top that 
off, you go and make a public announcement, and with a dramatic pause, head 
for the door.  I can almost imagine the melodramatic head-toss and door slam.  
How old are you again?  40 going on 14?

And you think that is an achilles heel of open source?  Here is an experiment 
for you, call up Intuit or Microsoft and tell them that you, as a customer, 
need them to publish their source code so that you can verify the security of 
the software that you bought.  I will place a bet on how fast they tell you 
"who gives a **** what you want?"

> As I mentioned in another post, there's a bug that makes the Loan Druid
> perfectly useless on my installation. This is a stock Fedora Core 3
> install. Not an insignificant distro and not an insignificant user base.
> I find it impossible to believe that I'm the only one with the problem.
> There's a bug in bugzilla that goes back to at least 1.8.4 about it.

Well, I, for one, simply studied the load druid and the formulas being created 
and wrote my own for my own loans.  If you had actually asked someone for a 
solution and been willing to use a work-around, rather than demanding some 
type of wizard to do the work, you might have gotten a solution rather than a 
bug report.  But why am I telling you this, after all, you already know the 
secret to getting everything that you want.  Make demands and threaten to 
leave the project, right?

> > Well, speaking of attitudes, you appear to suffer from a common one
> > yourself. You gleefully point out that you don't have time to wait or
> > actually contribute, rather, either something works the way you want it
> > to or you are off to another package.  I bet if Derek had a nickel for
> > every time someone has taken that type of attitude, he would rival Bill
> > Gates in wealth.
>
> If I could contribute, I would. 

They take donations on the home page.  You can volunteer to write help 
documentation, or answer questions on the mailing lists, or even by offering 
to demonstrate some patience while progress is occurring.

Offer to test new builds, even if it is just banging away on a keyboard 
against the new build.  Everyone CAN contribute, the only thing stopping you 
is the will.

> But Linux, and by extension the apps 
> that run on it, are beyond the stage where developers are the only
> users. That's a fact of life. At some point, it's shit or get off the
> pot. If the project loses it's user base, or never gets much of one,
> then it loses it's reason for being and dies. I personally would hate to
> see that happen; you apparently could care less.

Don't presume to know what I care about.

> I actually think I care *more* about this project than you do. The fact
> that it just isn't working out for me causes me much frustration.
> There's nothing gleeful about this announcement. And I certainly don't
> relish the idea of moving my data to another app. That's a royal PITA,
> but I figure it's better now than later.

>From what I can see, thinking isn't your strong suit.  And, as I stated 
before, Godspeed you on your way back to Windows.  If we can have a few less 
of your kind around Open source, all the better by my tastes.  I prefer the 
thoughtful supportive people who demonstrate their "caring" via contributions 
and support, rather than histrionics.

> Look at it this way. If I'm right, and certain things about this product
> really *do* need to be reworked and rethought, but because of people
> like you -- the cheerleaders -- the developers have the mistaken notion
> that everything's okay... and then it dies because it lacks a user base...
> If that happens it will be partially your fault.

If things do need to be reworked and rethought, it will be because of 
supporters who offer constructive criticism, support, and encouragement, not 
because of drama queens who demand that volunteers forget what they are 
already working on and drop everything to address the Queen's needs.

My response was not so much to you as to the rest of us sticking it out and 
trying to offer what support we can on the mailing list.  You have already 
announced your intention, and I reiterate, Godspeed you on your way.

-- 
Bryan Phinney
Admin - kislinux.org