2007-04-16 GnuCash IRC logs
00:00:43 <turbond> ;_)
00:00:56 <turbond> Well at least someone is awake....
00:01:30 <turbond> I think I going to serve a bug report...
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00:03:02 <hampton> no chance to tell him he's probably entering something wrong. oh, well.
00:04:25 <nbinont> though it could be that something was not clear to him...either way hopefully we'll find something out.
00:08:43 <hampton> Rather figure out if there is really a problem before a bug report gets opened. oh well.....
00:09:53 <nbinont> true
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00:24:41 <dbr> does - make[2]: *** No rule to make target `gnomeprint/deluxe.chk', needed by `all-am'. Stop.
00:25:01 <dbr> look like something I did or is there something missing from the 2.1.0 tarball?
00:26:07 <hampton> doesn't look like you. does the checks/gnomeprint directory exist?
00:26:42 <dbr> nope. Just checks
00:27:03 <hampton> ok. I need to see why that didn't get into the tarball.
00:27:14 <dbr> thanks
00:27:43 <hampton> if you're not testing check printing, you can create the gnomeprint directory and copy the chk files from checks to checks./gnomeprint
00:28:10 <hampton> must have forgot to add those to extradist.
00:28:29 <dbr> OK. I'll try that. Mostly I'm trying to figure out if I can solve the -devel question from tonight re: Macs
00:29:49 <dbr> just the check files and not the makefile instances?
00:30:26 <hampton> correct
00:30:33 <dbr> ty
00:30:33 <hampton> just applied a patch
00:33:52 <dbr> the postinstall script that fink uses with gnucash (written by someone who knows more than I) has a bunch of lines like:
00:33:58 <dbr> gconftool-2 --makefile-install-rule %p/etc/gconf/schemas/apps_gnucash_dialog_print_checks.schemas >/dev/null
00:34:15 <dbr> with the check printing rewrite, do I need that line anymore?
00:34:53 <hampton> yes. that's the check related preferences that gnucash is remembering
00:35:15 <dbr> good -- that means I don't have to learn anything new there at the moment
00:35:42 <hampton> :-)
00:37:14 <dbr> with the check fix, and the fix for the extra period in the directory name, 2.1.0 builds and runs on ppc macs.
00:37:56 <dbr> without swig visible
00:37:57 <hampton> sweet
00:37:59 <dbr> yay
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10:45:22 * chris waves good morning.
10:45:56 <jsled> good morning
10:45:59 <chris> (laptop failure kept me busy this weekend)
10:46:04 <jsled> oh, boo.
10:55:44 <hampton> morning chris, jsled
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12:30:05 <chris> Welcome, Chintan.
12:31:51 <Chintan> Hi
12:32:15 <Chintan> just getting familiar with the gnucash developers community
12:32:24 <chris> Chintan, I'm curious, where do you study?
12:32:33 <Chintan> DA-IICT, India
12:32:41 <Chintan> Its a very new university
12:33:35 <chris> I see. And what's your timezone, relative to UTC?
12:33:55 <Chintan> its 2208 now
12:34:01 <Chintan> I guess +5:30
12:34:09 <Chintan> that's wrt GMT
12:35:04 <Chintan> I am using the Icr for the first time
12:35:10 <Chintan> I mean IRC
12:35:13 <Chintan> It's cool
12:36:45 <chris> ok, you're about 11 hours offset from most of the devs, but only about 5 hours from the German devs.
12:37:16 <Chintan> You German?
12:38:03 <chris> No. I'm in the Northeastern U.S., along with warlord, jsled and hampton.
12:38:19 <jsled> hello, Chintan.
12:38:33 <chris> The Germans devs are andi5 and cstim.
12:38:38 <hampton> hi Chintan
12:38:43 <Chintan> I see. Besides, I think the timezone should not be much of a problem.
12:38:47 <Chintan> Hi hampton
12:39:26 <Chintan> You know as a student one get used to being awake whenever required
12:39:56 <Chintan> Any way of finding out about the developers of GnuCash?
12:40:15 <Chintan> I mean everone goes around with a nickname
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12:40:56 <chris> well, there is the AUTHORS file...
12:41:28 <Chintan> yup, found it
12:42:04 <chris> I thought there might have been something online, too, but I don't see it.
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12:50:02 <Chintan1> IRC wouldn't let me log in again with nick Chintan. Some problem with the net.
12:50:48 <Chintan1> I was actually looking for the incomplete QIF code made in last year's Google SOC
12:52:08 <Chintan1> Is it here: qif-io-core ?
12:52:10 <jsled> The ircd probably still has a lingering connection with the nick 'Chintan', which it needs to timeout first.
12:52:21 <Chintan1> I guess so!
12:52:34 <jsled> Other servers/networks have a 'nickserv[ice]' which lets you identify yourself with a password and 'ghost' the old connection.
12:53:22 <jsled> GnuCash has not been part of the SoC before.
12:53:32 <jsled> Regardless, there is existing QIF-import code.
12:53:45 <Chintan1> @conard: I'll take your advice and hang around for longer time. I see your advise working already
12:53:45 <gncbot> Chintan1: Error: "conard:" is not a valid command.
12:54:05 <jsled> gncbot: tell Chintan1 it's like this. :)
12:54:05 <gncbot> jsled: The operation succeeded.
12:54:11 <Chintan1> Actually there are two
12:54:11 <gncbot> Chintan1: Sent just now: <jsled> it's like this. :)
12:54:32 <Chintan1> ???
12:55:31 <jsled> The '@<user>: msg.' form does't work ... It's "gncbot: tell <user> <msg>", or "@tell <user> <msg>"
12:55:40 <Chintan1> I might have picked it up wrongly then. I thought the incomplete code was part of SOC last time :)
12:55:46 <Chintan1> oh, ok
12:58:34 <Chintan1> gncbot: tell jsled you're one of the mentors this time?!
12:58:34 <gncbot> Chintan1: The operation succeeded.
12:58:45 <jsled> .
12:58:45 <gncbot> jsled: Sent just now: <Chintan1> you're one of the mentors this time?!
12:59:08 <jsled> I am a mentor, yes.
12:59:39 <Chintan1> gncbot: tell jsled cool
12:59:39 <gncbot> Chintan1: The operation succeeded.
12:59:52 <jsled> Chintan1: Uh, I'm right here. You don't need to relay the messages through gncbot.
12:59:52 <gncbot> jsled: Sent just now: <Chintan1> cool
13:00:07 <Chintan1> ok
13:00:31 <jsled> gncbot is useful as a sort of message passing for people that aren't in the channel.
13:00:31 <gncbot> jsled: Error: "is" is not a valid command.
13:00:41 <Chintan1> sorry, I'll learn
13:00:54 <jsled> :) yup. it's all good.
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13:31:45 <Chintan1> gncbot: tell conrad I'll take your advice and hang around for longer times. I see your advise working already :)
13:31:45 <gncbot> Chintan1: The operation succeeded.
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14:29:41 <andi5> jsled: tango has landed... thanks for digging in the archives :-)
14:30:34 <jsled> :)
14:30:54 <jsled> I cargo-culted the gnucash-icon.ico a bit ... I couldn't see it referenced anywhere.
14:31:34 <andi5> i am sorry, what does "cargo-culted" mean? ... i think the .ico is used on windows
14:31:47 <andi5> so testing work is needed there :)
14:31:58 <jsled> oh ... uh ... did things by copying what's already there.
14:32:11 <jsled> Not quite the right phrase anyways. I just made the .ico the same as the 48x84 .png.
14:32:50 <jsled> Though the one problem might be I saved the .ico as 32bpp, and it might actaully want 8bpp, 255-palette.
14:33:21 <andi5> i will check that, do not mind :)
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15:33:12 <moosie> Hi, new to Gnucash. Looks wonderful. One thing I can't find: Is there a way to track stock options in an investment account? I want nothing fancy, am willing to call them 'STOCK' type, and even deal with 1-option-means-100-shares. I can generate and import my own QIF of the option prices, too (this is what I do for Quicken). I need no analytics, just portfolio tracking.
15:35:06 <warlord> GnuCash doesn't have specific "this is a stock option" handling.. But if you're willing to treat it like any other commodity then go ahead.
15:35:06 <gncbot> warlord: Sent 3 days, 0 hours, and 12 minutes ago: <cstim> have a good trip to Dallas
15:42:36 <moosie> Aah, yes, I was able to add it, faking out the exchange (I said it was NYSE). But my QIF price import doesn't "take", even though I created an account, and "bought" an option in it (thinking that perhaps prices don't import if there are no positions).
15:43:36 <moosie> And it doesn't show up in Price editor for me to enter manually (i guess a clue that there's something wrong here)
15:44:47 <warlord> GnuCash doesn't import prices.
15:44:56 <warlord> (at least not via the QIF import)
15:45:30 <warlord> As for the Price Editor.... You would need to manually add a price first, I think, before it would show up in the list.
15:45:58 <moosie> ok, thanks. I guess i'll poke around the Finance::Quote linkage to see if I can get to do it. Barring that, perhaps updating the xml directly...
15:49:27 <moosie> Aah, I get that now, about Price Editor. Thanks for your help!
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15:56:49 <warlord> you're welcome
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16:25:23 <conrad> @tell chintan Welcome to Gnucash. Glad the advice was effective for you :-)
16:25:23 <gncbot> conrad: The operation succeeded.
16:25:24 <gncbot> conrad: Sent 2 hours and 53 minutes ago: <Chintan1> I'll take your advice and hang around for longer times. I see your advise working already :)
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17:01:06 <warlord> andi5: thank you for fixing the xfer dialog autofil bug!
17:01:51 <andi5> warlord: i just hope that it works better now :) .. (there are still some quirks)
17:03:53 <warlord> I'll test it.
17:03:59 <andi5> that is nice :)
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17:23:45 <andi5> warlord: you have built gnucash on windows before... do you mind if i rename custom.sh to defaults, make that recommended as immutable and after defaults optionally read in a user-written file "custom"?
17:24:16 <andi5> better names are welcome of course :)
17:25:52 *** andi5 is now known as andi5|biab
17:28:25 <warlord> andi5|biab: that sounds like a great idea.
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17:44:09 <andi5> nbinont: hiho, great to see you :)
17:45:08 <nbinont> hi!
17:45:40 <nbinont> been kind of swamped with work...but I will get to the build soon
17:46:21 <andi5> cool =) .... for the 2.1.1 i hope to have something up to enable (1) builds from tarballs, and (2) builds from certain tags (like the one still missing ;-))
17:47:08 <nbinont> sounds great :)
17:47:34 <andi5> nbinont: do you have any questions on how to do the build? i think there is not much difference to a normal one, just edit the "svn up" line in install.sh to take a certain revision and rename the resulting setup.exe
17:48:06 <andi5> or just comment out the "add_step svn_up" line and svn up manually
17:49:04 <andi5> it is kind of crazy to fall back to an older revision.... but i do not know whether it is better to have different code bases used for the source tarballs release and the win32 binary
17:49:20 <nbinont> It seems straightforward enough...I just have to sit down and do it
17:49:55 <andi5> nbinont: feel free to test reset.sh :) ... but better do it _after_ 2.1.0 ;-)
17:49:58 <nbinont> I agree that the same code base should be used for both the binary and the tarball otherwise things may become confusing
17:50:12 <nbinont> k
17:50:42 <andi5> nbinont: out of curiosity, what is your time zone?
17:51:53 <nbinont> what...you aren't guessing first? ;)
17:51:54 <warlord> andi5, nbinont: IMHO,the win32 build should be done from EXACTLY the same rev# as the source tarball.. So either the build should USE the tarball or it should use the tag.. I think using the tarball would be better because then it doesn't print out things like "this is a development release"
17:52:54 <nbinont> andi5: it's EST...gnt - 5 I think
17:53:24 <andi5> 'k
17:54:06 <warlord> nbinont: E/S/T?? Where are you? Indiana?
17:54:52 <nbinont> a bit further north
17:55:40 <andi5> warlord, nbinont: that would be possible now as well... just comment out the svn_up step, extract the tarball into c:\soft\gnucash\repos and run install.sh... this is untested though :) ... WRT the message -> there is none, as stdout=/dev/null
17:55:42 <warlord> And you dont do DST?
17:56:08 <warlord> andi5: well, for the tarball we dont need to run autogen
17:56:42 <warlord> ... it would be nice if the script would do the extraction from the tarball if it's configured as a tarball install.
17:56:46 <warlord> (tarball build)
17:57:13 <nbinont> whoops, yes we do daylight savings time
17:57:16 <andi5> oh, you are right.... well, the script will not be ready in time for the 2.1.0 build
17:57:21 <nbinont> I'm in Ontario
17:58:40 <warlord> well, when's the 2.1.0 build?
17:58:47 <warlord> nbinont: Oh? Where in ON?
18:02:06 <nbinont> andi5: I think I'll pull down the specific revision number for 2.1.0 ( I know this works well and I'd like to get the build out) This should be more or less the same as the tarball.
18:02:27 <andi5> yep
18:02:41 <nbinont> andi5: we can go for the tarball for 2.1.1
18:02:52 <andi5> warlord: is it possible to copy the old revision to tags/2.1.0?
18:03:40 <warlord> nbinont: that sounds reasonable.
18:04:17 <warlord> andi5: if you know what revision it is, yes, you can just cp that .../trunk@<revision> .../tags/2.1.0
18:05:15 <andi5> i think cstim answer nbinont with the exact revision... (will not do that cp myself, not today)
18:05:21 <andi5> +ed
18:05:46 <warlord> We can probably figure it out from wilddev's log
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18:15:38 <warlord> I like it.
18:32:15 <nbinont> I'm going to build 2.1.0 tonight
18:33:32 <warlord> nbinont: cool.
18:34:16 <andi5> nbinont: watch out for r15912... maybe you better not update packaging/win32 :-)
18:37:39 <warlord> andi5: what happened in 15912? And was that before or after 2.1.0?
18:37:50 <warlord> Oh, NM. I see.
18:38:10 <andi5> well, i do not think it will hurt... but who knows
18:40:29 <warlord> ok
18:41:16 <nbinont> I'm just looking at the gnucash-patches archives and it seems r15908 was the last to be noted as 2.1.0, so I'll use this version of the build scripts and the source code
18:41:55 <warlord> Yea, 15908 is it.
18:44:12 <andi5> nbinont: do not forget to apply r15896 locally, i.e. remove the trailing dot from 2.1.0. in configure.in :)
18:44:40 <andi5> well, strictly speaking he should not do that ..... hmmmm
18:45:05 <warlord> andi5: 15908 would imply 15896
18:46:19 <andi5> oh, you want to use 15908 as source revision? ... that is not what wilddev used, imho... i agree with cstim about r15892
18:47:49 <warlord> what did cstim say about it?
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18:48:27 <andi5> http://lists.gnucash.org/pipermail/gnucash-devel/2007-April/020395.html ... """> What revision did you use? : There you'd see the commit message where the version number has been changed to 2.1.0 (in this case, it was r15892)."""
18:49:51 <warlord> ah
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18:55:26 <nbinont> hmm..now this is getting confusing. andi5 there was that message, then another a couple hours later saying I should use 15896. But checking the patches list I see that the latest patch to be tagged 2.1.0 was 15908 http://lists.gnucash.org/pipermail/gnucash-patches/2007-April/date.html
18:55:46 <nbinont> is the revision listed anywhere in the tarball itself?
18:56:16 <andi5> nbinont: r15908 just changed the news on the website :)
18:57:12 <andi5> nbinont: http://lists.gnucash.org/pipermail/gnucash-changes/2007-April/005065.html
18:58:54 <andi5> nbinont: oh, you are right... i did not remember cstim's second email, which is quite clear :)
19:00:12 <nbinont> ok. then 15896 it is
19:02:49 <andi5> nbinont: nice :) have fun and see you.... oh, and feel free to announce your creation :)
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19:28:25 <malikeye> I'm really good at screwing this up :)
19:31:33 <malikeye> guess I still need to learn up on liabilities
19:32:28 <warlord> a liability is money you owe
19:32:41 <malikeye> yep... but it adds to your equity
19:33:49 <warlord> um, no... it subtracts from your equity. Perhaps you entered the transaction backwards?
19:33:56 <malikeye> so I take money from checking -> 2nd mortgage ( won't do that again, btw, second mortgage )
19:34:26 <warlord> that would "pay down" the mortgage.
19:34:57 <malikeye> it would, but I don't gain that money in assets / equity
19:34:58 <malikeye> right ?
19:35:02 <malikeye> most of it is interest
19:35:17 <warlord> Well, the PRINCIPAL payment would increase equity..
19:35:28 <warlord> The Interest payment is an Expense.
19:35:30 <warlord> See the docs.
19:35:35 <malikeye> so I gotta split
19:35:49 <malikeye> yeah, haven't made it all the way through the docs yet
19:36:13 <warlord> go make it through the docs.
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20:45:05 <suzi> I'm a newbie. Finally installed the stripped down version in MacPorts according to directions. I type in gnucash in terminal. This is the result: (gnucash:21477): Gtk-WARNING **: cannot open display:
20:45:29 <suzi> Assume I don't have any idea what I'm doing other than following direction. You'd be very close to right.
20:46:01 <warlord> suzi: gnucash requires that you run it from X, so you have to start the Mac X Server..
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20:47:36 <suzi> OK. Are you talking about XDarwin?
20:48:42 <warlord> Ummm.. Maybe?
20:49:33 <suzi> or, somehow xampp? Where is the actual exe file located? I can't find it anywhere on the drive.
20:51:37 <warlord> Did you install it? I think for me it was under /Applications somewhere.
20:51:46 <suzi> I'll bet it's xtools. I had to download that as part of the install.
20:51:48 <warlord> It could be XDarwin
20:51:55 <suzi> It doesn't appear under applications that I could find.
20:51:56 <warlord> Could be
20:52:19 <suzi> I have xtools open right now. I'll explore a bit and get back soon.
20:55:32 <nbinont> suzi: from wikipedia: Since version 10.3, Mac OS X has included X11.app, the company's version of the X Window System graphical interface for Unix applications, as an optional component during installation.[11] Up to and including Tiger, Apple's implementation was based on the X11 Licensed XFree86 4.3 and X11R6.6.
20:56:18 <suzi> OK. that's something I had to download too. I'll find that and get back to you.
20:56:24 <nbinont> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/X11.app might also help
20:56:41 <nbinont> (I'm not a mac user so I could be totally in the dark here)
20:57:20 <suzi> No problem. At least I have a place to start. I've been learning so much so far... I know I won't remember next time though. Thanks for the tips!
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22:30:52 <warlord> Hiya Wilddev
22:31:00 <Wilddev> hey warlord
22:31:00 <warlord> @op benoitg
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22:31:03 <Wilddev> hows things?
22:31:07 <warlord> Pretty good.
22:31:11 <Wilddev> cool
22:31:33 <warlord> Yeah.
22:31:43 <benoitg> warlord, Wilddev: Hi guys
22:31:53 <warlord> Hiya benoitg
22:31:58 <Wilddev> hi benoitg
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22:38:34 <warlord> Yay.. 2.1.0 :)
22:38:46 <warlord> Although, Wilddev, you forgot to tag the release ;)
22:38:58 <dbr> Hi all. Did anyone ever look at http://lists.gnucash.org/pipermail/gnucash-devel/attachments/20070213/34332043/attachment.obj wrt fixing the macintel linking problems?
22:39:22 <Wilddev> warlord: damm did I?
22:39:29 <Wilddev> man I really messed up this weekend
22:39:39 <Wilddev> was just to tired
22:40:02 <warlord> dbr: I think that would break win32.
22:40:44 <dbr> Oh. Ok. I just ran back into that because of a thread that started on -users and ended up in my mail box...
22:40:45 <Wilddev> warlord: I should be able to tag, I didnt update my tree yet
22:40:46 <warlord> Wilddev: I'm afraid so.
22:40:48 <Wilddev> let me do it now
22:41:09 <warlord> Wilddev: I suppose if you have a 2.1.0 WC you could tag from there.
22:41:17 <dbr> I wish I understood a whole bunch of things better, including autotools
22:42:39 <warlord> it's not just autotools.. The problem is the dictotomy of "shared library" vs. "shared object / module".. on MOST platforms they are equivalent, but not on MacIntel (or potentually Mac/PPC).. On the other hand on win32 you can't build a shared library or module with undefined symbols.
22:42:54 <warlord> So, that patch would break win32, because there would be undefined symbols.
22:43:55 <dbr> that makes sense. Now I just need to recognize the symptoms/signs on the front end.
22:43:58 <dbr> Wilddev: also in r15908, you don't need swig to build from the tarball
22:44:17 <Wilddev> warlord: ok its tagged
22:47:03 <warlord> thanks.
22:47:19 <Wilddev> yw
22:49:23 <dbr> warlord: so how do duplicate definitions happen? V. Weinstein has a bunch of duplicate symbols. eg _gnc_module_current defined in both gncmd-register-core.c and gncmd-register-gnome.c
22:50:18 <warlord> Well, that's a result of the two (separate) GModule definitions.
22:51:09 <dbr> so, is the macintel screwing up in some known way by calling those duplicate symbols?
22:51:22 <warlord> We didn't have this problem before because we used libtool directly, so the raw symbols were actually different. But now that we use GModule, the symbols ARE duplicated. But apparrently only the macos linker complains.
22:52:31 <dbr> Hmm. That might be generic enough to track down through Mac channels...
22:53:33 <warlord> usually the fix is "dont do that"
22:53:58 <warlord> ... but not doing that would require better delineation between libraries and modules.
22:54:06 <dbr> but it sounds like we need to tell GModule to "don't do that"
22:54:16 <warlord> I dont think there's a way to do that.
22:54:32 <warlord> ... or to tell GModule "use this salted symbol instead"
22:55:01 <dbr> That's what I was thinking. So maybe there is already a workaround somewhere in the Mac realm. We can't be the only ones with this problem.
22:55:11 <warlord> Oh, I bet............
22:55:20 <warlord> Are all the complaints about gnc_module_* ?
22:56:19 <dbr> possibly. I don't have the whole log, but the first half dozen seem to be.
22:56:28 <warlord> Can you get the whole log?
22:56:33 <dbr> probably.
22:57:10 <warlord> If all the symbols are gnc_module_* then I think we MIGHT be able to "go back" to dynamically-defined symbols.. MAYBE..
22:58:53 <dbr> I'll try to get the log.
23:00:56 <warlord> thanks.
23:03:40 <warlord> dbr: actually, looking at the code, I think that we'd have trouble with my idea unless we tie the symbol name to the filename.
23:04:04 <warlord> Although I suppose we already did that..
23:04:15 <dbr> OK. But I'll still get the log, I may understand more of it now.
23:04:21 *** twunder has quit IRC
23:04:24 <warlord> Okay.
23:06:23 <warlord> Bedtime for me. Been a long day.
23:07:05 <dbr> gnight
23:12:46 *** warlord is now known as warlord-afk