2008-02-11 GnuCash IRC logs
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03:21:38 <warlord> @nick gncbot
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03:21:54 <warlord> andrewsw-afk, conrad, jsled: could one of you op gncbot, please?
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11:24:23 <contents> Hi all, I'd like to ask for some advice on how to set up some accounts. I'm the treasurer of a cooperative housing arrangement, and I am hoping to use gnucash to organize our finances. In order to keep track of rent, I have set up each member as a "customer", to whom an invoice made every month. That seems to work fine. But it raises two questions.
11:24:23 <gncbot> contents: Sent 1 week, 5 days, 3 hours, and 24 minutes ago: <warlord> You cannot Schedule an invoice. You can duplicate the transactions but it wont duplicate the invoice, and if you do duplicate the transactions the business features wont work.
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11:45:53 <contents> Now it looks like Obama has a good chance of winning, which is good
11:46:04 <contents> He won four more states over the weekend
11:46:28 <contents> They were small states, but winning them all is a good psychological victory
11:46:42 <contents> Partly because he won by very large margins
11:47:12 <jsled> uh, perhaps you think this is a different channel than #gnucash? :)
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12:02:27 <contents> oops! sorry about that--I have two chat windows open. I was wondering why the others didn't respond! My apologies!
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12:19:40 <contents> Hello warlord, I just saw a reply you posted to me here after I logged off a few days ago. Thanks very much for your reply. I had asked about scheduling invoices, and you said that I cannot schedule an invoice, and that if I duplicate the transactions, the business features won't work.
12:21:29 <warlord> Correct
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12:34:32 <contents> warlord: If that is the case, do I have to manually enter in every invoice every month? I have quite a few customers who should each receive an invoice on the first of every month. Is there any way to automate that?
12:36:48 <warlord> Yes, you have to manually enter those invoices in every month. There is no way to automate it, except perhaps using something like dogtail..
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12:40:15 <contents> Hm--I am not competent enough at programming to try that, I think. Could you tell me what business features would fail if I just tried to schedule an "accounts receivable" transaction?
12:45:34 <warlord> Everything.
12:45:37 <warlord> All the business reports.
12:45:43 <warlord> Telling whether it's been paid.
12:45:46 <warlord> everything would fail.
12:46:01 <warlord> At that point you might as well just not use the business features at all.
12:48:18 <contents> Hm. Do you have any suggestions as to how I might get around the problem of having to manually enter every repeat invoice every month?
12:49:28 <contents> My issue is this--I am trying to set up gnucash for my housing cooperative. Every month there is rent, which is absolutely predictable for everyone. That's what I'd like to automate. Payment is not always predictable, as some people are sometimes ahead and some are behind.
12:50:33 <contents> I thought that if I set members of the coop as "customers", then I could use the business features to keep track of who is current on rent
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12:52:32 <warlord> I would recommend working around the problem using Accounts instead of Customers. Make each customer and Asset account. Make a scheduled transaction for each member for the "bill", and then you can manually perform the payments. Then you can see who owes by just looking at their individual account balances.
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12:53:18 <contents> Ok. that sounds good. Thanks very much.
12:55:51 <warlord> you're welcome.
12:56:22 <warlord> FYI: http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=114421
13:11:31 <mishehu> /quit bbl
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13:35:30 <olsen> income + expenses should be equal to assets + liabilities and eqity - what if the books does not add up?
13:35:38 <olsen> how can that be?
13:36:31 <olsen> how do i find the money difference if it doesnt add up to zero?
13:37:04 <warlord> Did you sell stocks or use multiple currencies?
13:37:22 <olsen> oh ! yes
13:37:46 <warlord> Then you didn't properly account for the gains/losses.
13:38:01 <olsen> no i see the account overview shows unrealized gains/losses
13:38:22 <olsen> is there a way to disable it in the account overview?
13:38:32 <warlord> I dont know.
13:38:45 <olsen> then i guess nobody does
13:38:58 <warlord> Not necessarily true
13:40:13 <olsen> it's just a little hard to account for because i don't know the source of the unrealized gains/losses because the difference is not related to a single account and i have plenty of currencies
13:42:45 <warlord> That would make it more difficult.
13:43:00 <warlord> For each 'sale' you need to account for the gain/loss of that sale.
13:43:54 <olsen> doesnt help if my asset (different currencies bank accounts) gets bigger or lesser when i update currency prices
13:44:07 <olsen> then the books will not add up even after i accounted for the losses
13:44:17 <olsen> then i will have to account for it each time i get currency prices
13:45:57 <warlord> Your account DOESN'T change when the prices change. You €100 is still €100, even if it was work $125 when you bought it and now is worth $200.
13:46:21 <warlord> You only have to account for gain/loss when you actually have a transaction.
13:46:37 <olsen> i know the account doesn't change, but the value of the account changes
13:49:03 <warlord> True, but that's irrelevant here. That only affects unrealized gains/losses.
13:49:23 <olsen> it also affects the total column
13:50:06 <olsen> which means that it looks like income + expenses is not equal to all the assets, liabilities, equity etc
13:50:13 <warlord> Only the "total in report currency" column.
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13:50:25 <warlord> Which is different.
13:50:31 <warlord> Run a Balance Sheet report.
13:57:55 <olsen> is the trial balance not supposed to say the same in debit and credit sum?
13:58:11 <warlord> I have no idea. I've never used that report.
14:02:41 <olsen> i don't see how the balance sheet report can help me - i just want (somehow) a little reassurance that the books balance
14:04:38 <warlord> The balance sheet will tell you if they balance.
14:04:58 <warlord> If the report balances, your books are fine.
14:05:08 <warlord> If the report DOESN'T balance, then you have a problem with your books.
14:10:53 <olsen> how does it tell me that?
14:12:06 <warlord> Did you run the report?
14:12:52 <olsen> yes
14:13:46 <warlord> And did the report balance?
14:14:02 <olsen> i don't know
14:14:12 <olsen> you cannot tell because it doesnt account for income + expenses
14:14:33 <warlord> Yes, it does.
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14:19:21 <olsen> how can You tell?
14:19:42 <warlord> See the Retained Earnings line item in the report?
14:20:46 <warlord> That's a real-time computation of Income - Expense.
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14:22:52 <olsen> yes and that balances fine with my income - expense
14:23:37 <olsen> my retained losses = 9832,63 - and that is the result of income - expenses
14:24:58 <warlord> Well, if you Assets == your Liabilities & Equity on that report then your books are fine.
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14:26:38 <olsen> it is not equal to that
14:27:10 <warlord> So you're saying that your report doesn't balance?
14:27:55 <olsen> if that is the consequense of what i just said then yes
14:28:19 <olsen> would you like to take a look at the balance sheet for me and tell me if you think it balances?
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14:29:11 <warlord> Well, it's obvious if it balances or not. What do you see in the "Total Assets" line? What do you see in the "Total Liabilities & Equity" line?
14:30:04 <olsen> http://90.184.68.131/bal.html
14:30:37 <warlord> So the answer is no.. Which means your books are broken.
14:31:14 <olsen> how can they be broken? software bug or have i done something wrong?
14:31:27 <warlord> So, I'd suggest going back in time (using your balance sheet) to figure out when they went out of balance. And then look for a cross-commodity txn on that date and make sure you account for the realized gain/loss.
14:33:23 <olsen> i dont see how i can account for a book not balancing because i debit and credit the same amount so it will never work out
14:33:38 <olsen> unless it's because i did something wrong with a split transaction, could that be possible?
14:34:51 <olsen> i see the books were balanced yesterday and all the time back - all i did today was to update currency prices
14:35:42 <warlord> Ahh, in your Report Options on the Balance Sheet... What do you have set for the "Price Source" on the Commodities page?
14:36:04 <warlord> You might need to change that from Weighted Average to Most Recent or Nearest in Time.
14:37:57 <olsen> it has effect, but it still doesnt balance
14:40:14 <warlord> You did NOTHING but Get Price Quotes? You didn't enter a single transaction yesterday or today?
14:41:00 <olsen> well... i did yesterday, but i didn't notice if the books balanced or not
14:41:42 <olsen> it's trange because it was my impression that books always balanced in gnucash because it makes and assigns accounts like imbalance, orphan etc
14:41:59 <olsen> so there is no debit without and equal credit
14:42:23 <warlord> Not for sales of stocks/currencies. Whenever you cross a commodity you have to account for the gain/loss manually.
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14:43:03 <olsen> how?
14:43:10 <warlord> read the docs
14:43:14 <warlord> it's all in there.
14:43:15 <olsen> ok :(
14:43:58 <olsen> you've been great so far and i thank you for all your time and help - i hope to talk to you again here, thank you
14:44:30 <warlord> you're welcom
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