2008-08-26 GnuCash IRC logs
00:19:02 <hauptmat> warlord: Have you read Peter Selinger's stuff on multiple currencies? Have an opinion on it?
00:20:48 <warlord> * sigh *
00:20:50 <warlord> Yes, I've read it.
00:21:04 <warlord> He doesn't differentiate between realized and unrealized gains.
00:23:01 <hauptmat> I'm just starting to get familiar with gnucash & multiple currencies. Do you think gnucash is mature in this respect or are there some holes I should look out for?
00:23:44 <warlord> Oh, there are holes.
00:23:54 <warlord> He's not an accountant
00:24:08 <warlord> but he's not completely blowing smoke, either.
00:24:59 <hauptmat> Is there a contributor who works in multiple currencies? (I have no personal opinion on peters stuff)
00:25:37 <jsled> you should consider Peter's stuff as "a contributor who works in multiple currencies".
00:25:44 <warlord> right
00:27:04 <hauptmat> I don't get it. Sounds like this is well traveled ground though...
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00:30:15 <quotemstr> It's amazing how big the numbers get when you total up expenses over three yeras.
00:30:20 <quotemstr> years, too.
00:30:29 <warlord> hauptmat: what dont you get?
00:30:48 <hauptmat> jsled's comment.
00:30:57 <warlord> yes, and what about it dont you get?
00:31:41 <hauptmat> Is jsled saying that peter is a contributer?
00:32:27 <warlord> Yes.
00:32:52 <warlord> Peter has contributed his ideas.
00:33:04 <hauptmat> ah. thought it was a dig on him.
00:33:30 <jsled> Not at all. It's a well-detailed document of value about a thorny problem.
00:33:35 <warlord> Why would we dig on peter? Just because he doesn't understand the difference between realized and unrealized gains?
00:33:42 <jsled> I don't even really understand the problem well enough to comment on it.
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00:37:26 * warlord is thinking that he should try MTA's patch in a sandbox to see how it works.
00:38:49 <hauptmat> I'm trying to set up accounts for a small business that includes client payments into a foreign currency account. Calculating base currency info for tax purposes is throwing me for a loop. Anyone here dealt with this?
00:39:37 <warlord> the business features are all currently single-currency.
00:40:00 <warlord> You need the income, a/r, checking, and customer currencies to all be the same.
00:40:44 <hauptmat> warlord: Is this a limitation of the design or just waiting for implementation?
00:40:57 <warlord> yes
00:42:42 <hauptmat> :) If I were a programmer and sufficiently motivated could I make the business features multi-currency without breaking the rest of gnucash?
00:43:08 <jsled> Sure. If you had magic pixie dust, you could make a pony, too. :)
00:43:16 <hauptmat> I like ponies.
00:43:23 * jsled ♥ ponies
00:44:31 <warlord> LOL
00:44:53 <warlord> I dont think it would need magic pixie dust. The objects actuall are designed for multi currency.. But the UI isn't.
00:51:28 <quotemstr> Is it okay to have "unknown" and "adjustment" accounts when importing old, sloppy records?
00:52:32 <warlord> IANAA but sure, why not?
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00:57:51 <datakid> hi, quick question: When I have sub accounts in different currencies, the totals are failing. ie, I have Assets:Petty Cash:PC- AUD (Australian dollars) and Assets:Petty Cash:PC- IDR (indonedian rupiah) but the Assets:Petty Cash Account total is out - it's adding the raw number in the IDR account (in the millions) to the regular AUD amount (in the pennies :) ) creating chaos on balance sheets
00:57:54 <datakid> what am I doing wrong?
00:59:22 <warlord> Do you have any currency quotes in your pricedb?
00:59:25 <datakid> must all sub accounts have the same currency? is there a "no currency" option?
00:59:43 <warlord> No, they must not have the same currency.
00:59:50 <warlord> I have no idea what you mean by a "no currency" option...
01:00:40 <datakid> ah, my pricedb. What would that be? I know that the money is being taken out at ATMs in Jakarta and charged to my Australian bank account. I've arranged it so that when I enter it into the PC-IDR as IDR, it does the conversion for my AUD bank account no worries
01:01:04 <warlord> Tools -> Price Editor
01:01:12 <datakid> the "no currency" option would be like a "sub accounts have multiple currencies" option
01:01:44 <warlord> GnuCash already supports that. It needs a pricedb entry to convert them for display. How would you combine EUR and USD? You need an exchange rate.
01:01:58 <warlord> that's where the pricedb comes in -- to supply that info
01:02:28 <datakid> ok, so yes, I have multiple entries in my pricedb, including the errant price that was entered this morning and has made me look very rich in Petty Cash
01:03:03 <datakid> seems to have quite an odd structure - I can't quite parse how it works?
01:03:30 <datakid> I generally use the dialogue box to make the conversion, since I can see the withdrawn amount in both currencies
01:04:08 <datakid> "7,751 + 121 / 129" was what it had in the "price" field
01:04:31 <warlord> interesting.
01:04:36 <warlord> Unfortunately it's bedtime for me.
01:05:00 <warlord> good night
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01:05:03 <datakid> ok, thanks warlord
02:01:16 <datakid> anyone else?
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08:42:01 <ben_goodger> good afternoon
08:42:19 <ben_goodger> I'm on 2.2.6 on debian lenny amd64
08:43:37 *** warlord-afk is now known as warlord
08:43:40 <ben_goodger> I entered a transaction this morning that I am now unable to edit. the transaction journal allows me to select the transaction and splits in question, but will not give me a cursor. I am able to add additional splits, and additional transactions within the same journal. does anyone have any ideas how to stop this?
08:45:39 <warlord> ben_goodger: No cursor, even if you click into a cell?
08:45:59 <ben_goodger> specifically I wish to edit one of the numbers in the credit column, say
08:46:23 <ben_goodger> clicking between the 5 and the decimal point gives me a bold line around the cell, and no cursor
08:46:31 <ben_goodger> as does clicking anywhere else
08:46:44 <warlord> and what happens if you start typing?
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08:46:51 <ben_goodger> the same applies for the "title" and "note" section
08:47:00 <warlord> title?
08:47:08 <ben_goodger> nothing
08:47:13 <ben_goodger> memo, sorry
08:47:14 <ben_goodger> not title.
08:47:17 <warlord> What do you mean .... ah.. ok.
08:48:20 <ben_goodger> the thing is, if I go to the empty split at the bottom of this transaction, it doesn't go bold, but does give me a cursor and I can type
08:48:59 <warlord> Can you post a screen shot of this?
08:49:06 <ben_goodger> I can also add new transactions to the same register, but I need to edit the existing one...I didn't have this problem a few months ago when initially using gnucash, I think
08:49:17 <ben_goodger> yep
08:50:31 <warlord> I've not seen or heard of this behavior before.. BUt I dont use debian -- it could be a gtk bug.
08:50:42 <ben_goodger> this is true
08:51:29 <ben_goodger> it is most annoying, because I was able to edit the transaction several times at 5am this morning...
08:51:42 <ben_goodger> http://img516.imageshack.us/my.php?image=screenshotflesbooksmartns0.png and http://img156.imageshack.us/my.php?image=screenshotflesbooksmartuf0.png
08:53:51 <warlord> OH!!! This is an A/R type account!
08:54:11 <ben_goodger> ah
08:54:23 <warlord> You're not supposed to manually edit those.
08:54:32 <ben_goodger> aha
08:54:35 <ben_goodger> that'll explain it.
08:55:17 <warlord> Yes it would ;)
08:55:53 <ben_goodger> I've never heard of accounts receivable before yesterday, you see. in england&wales we use liability accounts for creditors
08:57:10 <ben_goodger> ...hm
08:57:19 <ben_goodger> changing the account in question to liability type doesn't solve it
08:57:19 <warlord> A/R isn't a Credit account, it's a Debit (Asset) account.
08:57:31 <warlord> No, you'll need to re-do that transaction.
08:58:08 <ben_goodger> it's A/P btw.
08:58:47 <warlord> Ah, yeah, A/P is a credit/liability type.
08:58:57 <warlord> (can't tell A/R from A/P in the screenshots)
08:59:16 <ben_goodger> quite
08:59:43 <ben_goodger> it's quite a strain trying to reconcile college accountancy studies, gnucash, and the real world
09:00:03 <warlord> * nods *
09:00:14 <ben_goodger> that's improved my profit by £2.01. thanks!
09:01:20 <warlord> LOL.
09:01:26 <warlord> You're welcome.
09:01:33 <ben_goodger> incidentally, how does one edit an A/R account if not by hand?
09:02:16 <warlord> Using the Business menu features.
09:03:02 <ben_goodger> ah
09:03:18 <ben_goodger> and if I had made a typo or other error in recording the amount, as in this instance?
09:04:04 <warlord> You could unpost the invoice, change the number, and then re-post it through the Business features.
09:04:29 <ben_goodger> ah.
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12:39:50 <quotemstr> Where should the money come from for an initial loan balance?
12:39:54 <quotemstr> Equity:Opening Balances?
12:40:35 <warlord> did the loan happen before you started your accounting in gnucash?
12:40:38 <warlord> Or is this a new loan?
12:40:44 <quotemstr> Before I started accounting.
12:40:47 <warlord> Then yes
12:42:32 <quotemstr> What if it'd been a new loan?
12:43:26 <warlord> then it would be from Liability -> Asset (or Expense)
12:44:07 <quotemstr> Ah. So I'd have an asset called, say, "car"?
12:45:36 <warlord> yep
12:45:42 <warlord> or "house"
12:53:37 <quotemstr> What's the difference between an asset account and an expense account?
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12:55:21 <Mike1> assets are what you have (savings, cash, checking, etc)
12:55:42 <Mike1> expenses are where you money flows out to (car insurance, energy bill, groceries, etc.)
12:57:19 <quotemstr> So expenses are consumable; assets are not?
12:57:31 <jsled> quotemstr: See the tutorial and concepts guide, or http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Double-entry_accounting#Classification_of_accounts
12:57:34 <jsled> "consumable"?
12:57:57 <quotemstr> If you spend $100 on groceries, you don't have assets equal $100 worth of groceries. The groceries are consumed.
12:58:23 * quotemstr reads the wikipedia article.
12:58:38 <jsled> Well, yes. At least, when you consume them.
12:58:50 <jsled> It all really depends.
12:59:03 <jsled> Clearly, if you buy a car, then it might make sense to track the car as an Asset.
12:59:13 <jsled> If you buy a pencil, it probably doesn't.
12:59:21 <jsled> Unless you're a business, maybe.
12:59:28 <jsled> And you're buying 10k penciles.
12:59:32 <jsled> Or 1000 laptops.
12:59:41 <jsled> Then there's depreciation and taxes and laws, oh my.
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13:00:56 <quotemstr> Yeah: I've heard that's insane. And somewhat arbitrary.
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20:06:26 <tedcx> taxable income report v 2.2.4 I get WARNING: There are duplicate TXF codes assigned to some accounts. Only TXF codes with payer sources may be repeated. (with a list of duplicates) on all reports I run after the first one. How can I fix this?
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23:34:35 <Azih> SO hey guys I'm setting up my accounts in gnucash and the druid suggested that I put my mortgage in the 'Loan' category. But in the cash flow reports they're not showing up as negatives at all so all my loans look like free money. Should I move them to the liabilities section?
23:58:44 *** warlord-afk is now known as warlord