2008-09-10 GnuCash IRC logs
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08:05:35 <livibetter> I installed 2.2.6 on Linux, but I got "ERROR: Unbound variable: map" when I run it. Anyone can help me to fix this?
08:05:55 <livibetter> I compiled from source
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09:12:08 <warlord> livibetter: It means your guile installation is broken. What Distro?
09:12:35 <livibetter> I use LFS
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09:14:01 <livibetter> my guile version is 1.8.5, slib is 3b1
09:14:11 <livibetter> is that about the guile version?
09:14:46 <livibetter> I searched and find something that says problem with 1.8
09:14:46 <warlord> I dont know. I'm on FC7 with guile-1.8.1-3.fc7 and slib-3a4-1.fc7
09:14:57 <warlord> if you run "guile"
09:15:06 <warlord> what happens if you type 'map' into the guile prompt
09:15:09 <livibetter> it runs normally
09:15:24 <livibetter> wait, let get the result
09:15:51 <livibetter> #<primitive-generic map>
09:16:32 <livibetter> I know nothing about guile or slib
09:17:14 <livibetter> I am thinking to install guile 1.6.8
09:40:07 <warlord> Hmm.. Where is guile installed?!?
09:40:21 <warlord> I wonder if it's in an environment where gnucash can't find it?
09:40:22 <livibetter> With 1.6.8, I got "ERROR: Unbound variable: default-duplicate-binding-handler"
09:40:47 <livibetter> prefix is /usr
09:41:01 <warlord> Wait, you have both 1.6 and 1.8 installed simultaneously?!?
09:41:07 <livibetter> yes
09:41:31 <warlord> How?
09:41:42 <warlord> what is /usr/bin/guile?
09:41:52 <livibetter> it is a simlink
09:41:52 <warlord> (this is probably part of your problem)
09:41:57 <livibetter> actuall many symlinks
09:42:06 <livibetter> I think not
09:42:54 <livibetter> > ll /usr/bin/guile*
09:42:54 <livibetter> lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root 17 2008-09-10 21:26 /usr/bin/guile -> multiarch_wrapper
09:42:55 <livibetter> -rwxr-xr-x 1 root root 10802 2008-09-10 21:24 /usr/bin/guile-1.6.8-32
09:42:55 <livibetter> -rwxr-xr-x 1 root root 15182 2008-09-10 21:26 /usr/bin/guile-1.6.8-64
09:42:55 <livibetter> -rwxr-xr-x 1 root root 13238 2008-09-09 18:06 /usr/bin/guile-1.8.5-32
09:42:55 <livibetter> -rwxr-xr-x 1 root root 17578 2008-09-09 18:09 /usr/bin/guile-1.8.5-64
09:42:57 <livibetter> lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root 14 2008-09-10 21:29 /usr/bin/guile-32 -> guile-1.6.8-32
09:42:59 <livibetter> lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root 14 2008-09-10 21:29 /usr/bin/guile-64 -> guile-1.6.8-64
09:44:53 <livibetter> I am not sure if I need to re-compile gnucash, gnucash still try to use /usr/share/guile/1.8 not 1.6
09:45:22 <livibetter> But I add a 1.6 path into /usr/bin/gnucash
09:46:26 <jsled> why do you have 1.6 installed? And with both, why not prefer 1.8 for gnucash?
09:47:08 <jsled> I recall that "unbound variable: map" has come up before with distros, but not for a year or more, now. Maybe look at gnucash-devel mailing list archives to see what was suggested then?
09:47:24 <livibetter> I just want to try if 1.6 can work or not, because I got search result which says the 1.8 problem
09:47:50 <livibetter> I have searched in all the mailing-list with keywords "unbound variable map"
09:48:11 <jsled> 1.8 has been working fine forever. having both installed is going to be a PITA.
09:49:50 <livibetter> when I have "map" problem, I only have 1.8
09:51:30 <warlord> The 1.8 problems were slib binding issues in early 1.8 and slib releases.
09:51:54 <warlord> I thought those had long since been fixed... But for a while it did require distro-hacking to get them to work.
09:51:59 <livibetter> but my slib seems to work normally
09:52:06 <warlord> Are you sure?
09:52:58 <livibetter> I run guile -c "(use-modules (ice-9 slib)) (require 'printf)" without any erros
09:55:36 <warlord> There was a conversation back in Feb: http://lists.gnucash.org/logs/2008/02/2008-02-20.html
09:58:26 <warlord> There's also this thread from 9/07 but it didn't conclude conclusively: http://www.nabble.com/Need-help-tracking-down-guile-issue-td12619461.html
09:59:18 <livibetter> these two I have read... I am guessing is that possible distro's packager have done some patches work?
10:00:07 <warlord> It's certainly possible.
10:00:31 <livibetter> Before I tried LFS, I use Fedora 9 without problems
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10:12:33 <warlord> Well, might I suggest returning to F9? :)
10:13:03 <livibetter> Hehe... solving problem would have fun, sometimes :)
10:13:53 <livibetter> I saw there is a patch for guile 1.8.4 of ArchLinux, I am trying that
10:16:16 <warlord> ok.
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10:36:24 <dasy2k1> how do i register a price change in a stocks account that i havent bought or sold in ?
10:38:53 <warlord> Enter a pricedb entry
10:39:51 <dasy2k1> how?
10:42:10 <dasy2k1> ahh ok i found it
10:42:15 <dasy2k1> thanks warlord
10:54:29 <warlord> you're welcome
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11:50:11 <livibetter> it's working now. (the patch didn't work)
11:50:36 <warlord> how did you get it working?
11:51:31 <livibetter> The cause is I need to specify GUILE_LOAD_PATH=/usr/share/guile/1.8, possibly noted somewhere in README, but I didn't read it
11:52:13 <livibetter> However, that works after I rebuilt guile 1.8, re-generate slib catalog and rebuilt gnucash 2.2.6
11:52:25 <livibetter> * guile 1.8.5
11:53:03 <livibetter> I saw GUILE_LOAD_PATH being specified in ebuild file.
11:53:20 <livibetter> *ebuild of Gentoo
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11:55:02 <warlord> ah.
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12:32:38 <wolfs> I am trying to make a report to show the invoices belonging to a selected job.
12:33:22 <wolfs> I am not able to setup a qof-query to match against the job guid.
12:33:30 <wolfs> my current try is:
12:34:01 <wolfs> (qof-query-add-guid-match
12:34:01 <wolfs> q
12:34:01 <wolfs> (list SPLIT-TRANS INVOICE-FROM-TXN INVOICE-OWNER QOF-PARAM-GUID)
12:34:01 <wolfs> guid QOF-QUERY-OR)
12:34:24 <wolfs> The guid is the guid of the job.
12:34:36 <wolfs> Can anybody give me directions?
12:34:56 <wolfs> This query gives me every possible invoice.
12:35:35 <wolfs> Does this mean that if I enter a wrong list to qof-query-add-guid-match, then the part of the query is ignored?
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12:36:30 <warlord> wolfs: well, it's an OR clause.. so other clauses could be acceptable too.
12:36:57 <wolfs> It is the first clause, so it doesn't matter if I understand it right.
12:37:06 <wolfs> besides I already tried it with and...
12:38:08 <warlord> What if you leave off the QOF-PARAM-GUID?
12:39:28 <warlord> (not that I think that will do it)
12:39:46 <wolfs> Nothing changes.
12:40:01 <warlord> Well, run with query debugging on?
12:40:13 <wolfs> How do I do this?
12:41:03 <warlord> http://wiki.gnucash.org/wiki/Logging
12:41:13 <warlord> The module you want is qof.query
12:42:28 <warlord> so.. gnucash --log qof.query=debug
12:42:47 <warlord> That may or may not provide enough detail to figure out what's going wrong.
12:47:26 <wolfs> Is there a way of testing reports without restarting gnucash all the time?
12:47:49 <warlord> You could hack in a reload feature. See business-gnome.scm for an example.
12:47:58 <warlord> But in general, no, you need to restart periodically.
12:49:32 <wolfs> Okay, no matter if I put QOF-PARAM-GUID at the end, I get Param List: trans->invoice-from-txn->owner
12:50:08 <warlord> ???
12:50:17 <wolfs> And I should have a ->guid at the end...
12:50:26 <wolfs> This is from the log.
12:50:34 <warlord> pastebin that log section?
12:51:38 <wolfs> http://pastebin.com/m1bef1265
12:55:25 <warlord> Are you sure you're reading in the current scheme file?
12:56:22 <wolfs> Yes, since if I write something different (e.g. I just tried OWNER-GUID), I get an error...
12:57:05 <wolfs> Or did I forget to load some modules?
12:57:49 <warlord> It's possible that QOF-PARAM-GUID is incorrect.. I dont see it used anywhere
12:58:33 <warlord> It's POSSIBLE that it's just not exported..
12:58:40 <warlord> (although why it's not complaining I dont know)
12:58:54 <warlord> But... I see no references anywhere to QOF-PARAM-GUID
12:59:41 <wolfs> Seems to me like qof is just ignoring non fitting elements in the parameter list.
13:00:08 <warlord> nope.
13:00:13 <warlord> that's not what's happening.
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13:03:48 <warlord> Try using the string "guid"?
13:04:15 <wolfs> where?
13:04:33 <warlord> instead of QOF-PARAM-GUID
13:06:25 <warlord> (as a temporary measure)
13:06:38 <warlord> AFAICT QOF-PARAM-GUID isn't exported properly.
13:06:58 <wolfs> unbound variable guid...
13:07:17 <wolfs> After changing the variable I had the job guid in to guid1.
13:07:24 <warlord> Huh?
13:07:33 <warlord> No no no.. THE STRING "guid".. WITH THE QUOTES
13:08:41 <wolfs> Works!
13:08:47 <wolfs> Thank you very much!
13:09:10 <warlord> and that gives the response you want?
13:11:06 <wolfs> Yes.
13:11:14 <wolfs> Seems to work!
13:11:22 <wolfs> One more problem:
13:11:46 <wolfs> Seems like URL-TYPE-JOB is also not exported...
13:12:00 <wolfs> It is used in business-reports.scm
13:12:18 <wolfs> in (guid-ref "job=" URL-TYPE-JOB (gncJobReturnGUID job)))
13:12:46 <wolfs> When I tried to use it in my report I also got unbound variable.
13:12:55 <warlord> URL-TYPE-JOB? Where is that referenced?
13:13:43 <wolfs> Like I said, it is used in business-reports.scm
13:14:02 <wolfs> to define gnc:job-anchor-text
13:14:29 <wolfs> Probably it is not the same problem, just it doesn't work since nobody ever used it...
13:16:25 <wolfs> It should probaby defined in business/business-core/business-core.i
13:16:27 <wolfs> as
13:16:48 <wolfs> #define URL_TYPE_JOB GNC_ID_JOB
13:17:40 <warlord> Well, just use GNC-ID-JOB? ;)
13:21:04 <wolfs> but I can't in scheme....
13:21:18 <wolfs> Now I see whats missing (probably?):
13:21:44 <wolfs> SET_ENUM("URL-TYPE-JOB")
13:22:24 <wolfs> GNC-ID-JOB is unbound.
13:22:44 <wolfs> or probably not...
13:22:51 <wolfs> wait...
13:27:32 <wolfs> guid-ref "job=" GNC-ID-JOB (gncOwnerReturnGUID owner)
13:27:40 <wolfs> gives the following error:
13:27:53 <wolfs> Wrong type argument in position 1: #<primitive-procedure GNC-ID-JOB>
13:28:48 <wolfs> in gnc-build-url #<primitive-procedure GNC-ID-JOB>
13:37:55 <warlord> try adding that #define..??
13:38:10 <warlord> ... and export it..
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13:42:55 <wolfs> So I should modify the gnucash source and recompile it?
13:43:25 <warlord> You'll need to. Or you can use the string "gncJob" for now.
13:45:36 <wolfs> (guid-ref "job=" "gncJob" (gncJobReturnGUID (gncOwnerGetJob owner))
13:45:40 <wolfs> I'm using this.
13:45:50 <wolfs> And when I click on the Job link I get:
13:46:05 <wolfs> Not found The specified URL could not be loaded.
13:46:18 <warlord> Yeah, because a "job" url isn't understood.
13:46:32 <warlord> You'll need to recompile GnuCash for that.
13:46:55 <wolfs> If I would, what would happens when I click on the link?
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13:47:38 <warlord> I have no idea.. You'll have to program that in. I think the Customer and Vendor links bring up the Cust/Vend dialogs for the object.
13:47:44 <warlord> so.. a job would bring up the Job dialog.
13:48:17 <wolfs> So it is probably not worth it...
13:48:18 <warlord> But you're treading on new territory.. So you'll need to add the underlying support to do what you want.
13:48:44 <wolfs> OK, I thought the functionality was already there...
13:49:24 <warlord> Why would it be?
13:50:01 <wolfs> Because it was already written in buisness-reports.scm.
13:50:50 <warlord> *chuckles*
13:50:52 <warlord> You amuse me. :)
13:51:02 <wolfs> Do you have time to look into that QOF-PARAM-GUID issue?
13:51:04 <warlord> You'll need to update business-urls.c
13:51:12 <warlord> I've already fixed that one.
13:51:20 <warlord> (just haven't committed yet)
13:51:33 <wolfs> Very good...
13:52:07 <wolfs> So this will be in 2.2.7?
13:52:12 <warlord> Nope
13:52:49 <wolfs> The release after that then?
13:52:54 <warlord> Hopefully.
13:53:00 <warlord> (it MAY make 2.2.7, but not likely)
13:53:15 <wolfs> Should I send my Job report somewhere?
13:53:34 <wolfs> It would make good with the other owner reports...
13:53:39 <warlord> Not until it's been updated with the new tags.
13:53:57 <wolfs> The new Tags for the URLs?
13:54:06 <warlord> And the QOF-PARAM_GUID
13:54:24 <warlord> Feel free to send in the patch for the URLs.
13:54:34 <warlord> .. and you can include the updated report with that too.
13:54:53 <wolfs> If I find some time I will do this...
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13:57:30 <wolfs> It is already in business-urls.c
13:57:42 <wolfs> but deactivated by a #define 0
13:58:31 <wolfs> Okay, one has to do a little bit more...
13:58:45 <wolfs> Should I work against trunk or is 2.2.6 enough?
14:00:11 <warlord> The code in there is wrong.
14:00:14 <warlord> And it's not hooked in.
14:00:20 <wolfs> Okay...
14:00:49 <warlord> So since you will need to rebuild gnucash to get it to work then you might as well do the work to get it working. ;-)
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14:01:54 <wolfs> I see :(
14:02:50 <warlord> hey, it's only 5 minutes of hacking..
14:03:46 <wolfs> I'm already unpacking the source
14:03:59 <wolfs> I call back in five minutes ;)
14:04:47 <warlord> heh. ok.
14:14:05 <wolfs> Want to look at the patch?
14:15:03 <wolfs> http://pastebin.com/m598fc5eb
14:15:10 <wolfs> Did I forget something?
14:15:41 <wolfs> For the GUILE Interface, will this work automatically?
14:33:33 <warlord> looks right at first glance
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14:40:10 <wolfs> compiling...
15:10:42 <wolfs> Works with the following line:
15:10:52 <wolfs> (guid-ref "job=" "gncJob" (gncJobReturnGUID (gncOwnerGetJob owner)))
15:11:18 <wolfs> so where do I have to export URL_TYPE_JOB?
15:11:38 <wolfs> And how do I do it for the scheme report to find it?
15:13:08 <warlord> the business-something.i file
15:13:27 <warlord> (and recompile)
15:17:17 <wolfs> can you also give me your patch for the QOF-PARAM-GUID stuff?
15:21:25 <warlord> it's in svn
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16:26:52 <wolfs> Should I send you my patches and you put then in svn?
16:29:49 <warlord> -devel or a bugzilla report
16:30:20 <wolfs> Okay.
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16:56:15 <cedayiv> Derek, any thoughts on my -devel question about a register fix?
16:57:46 <warlord> Haven't read it yet.
16:59:42 <cedayiv> No problem. You might as well respond there, then.
17:05:00 <warlord> Having just read it... It should never ignore a 0 exchange rate. if exch-rate is 0 then it should ALWAYS pop up the dialog if:
17:05:42 <cedayiv> But entering a zero exchange rate is the only way to enter currency gains.
17:05:46 <warlord> current account commodity != txn commodity
17:06:25 <warlord> That's fine --- it should still ask you when you're entering the split!
17:06:34 <warlord> (or exiting the split, I should say)
17:08:00 <cedayiv> (thinking)
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17:12:39 <cedayiv> Why make that rule just for zero exchange rates? When you go back and edit a line that has a non-zero exchange rate by, say, changing the notes, the dialog doesn't pop up. The register doesn't assume that you want to change the exchange rate.
17:13:02 <cedayiv> Same ought to be true for gain splits.
17:13:21 <cedayiv> If you really want to change the rate, you can do so from the menu.
17:14:02 <warlord> The problem is that you need some way to key the register that you need to pop up the dialog.
17:14:23 <warlord> (e.g. on data entry the first time, or when you change accounts and the currency is different)
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17:14:45 <warlord> If you can figure out a way to key that OTHER than a 0-value rate, be my guest.
17:15:01 <cedayiv> Yeah. Currently, both those cases are covered by a zero exchange rate.
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17:15:42 <cedayiv> My thought was to store a flag in the register's SRInfo indicating whether the user approved the zero exchange rate. If so, no need to pop up the dialog.
17:16:19 <cedayiv> Or to store that flag somewhere else. Open to suggestions...
17:16:44 <warlord> I dont recall why I didn't use SRinfo -- IIRC because it wasn't saved across cursor changes.
17:18:14 <warlord> So really the only issue to solve is to prevent the dialog from popping up on gain/loss splits... Well, can't we base that on the Action?
17:18:28 <cedayiv> Even if you aren't moving to a new line?
17:18:48 <warlord> ???
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17:19:21 <warlord> I dont understand the question..
17:19:33 <cedayiv> SRinfo doesn't save your flags, even if the cursor remains on the same line?
17:20:51 <cedayiv> (such as moving from "notes" column to "account" column)
17:21:14 <warlord> The cursor is on the row..
17:21:28 <warlord> SRInfo doesn't change when you traverse the cells in the row..
17:21:36 <warlord> But it might change across rows.
17:23:01 <cedayiv> Ah, OK. Well I think that's good enough then. If you switch rows, the traverse function gets called to do that, and it knows the row it is leaving, so it can check whether it needs to call the exchange rate dialog.
17:24:06 <warlord> But what if you enter the row a second time? It will ask you (yet again) about the entry, wont it?
17:26:16 <cedayiv> My thought that when entering an existing row that is not the blank split row, you know that the user has already approved the zero exchange rate. So you don't have to pop up the dialog unless the account changes.
17:28:16 <cedayiv> So, in effect, you would never pop up the exchange rate dialog unless the account cell is edited or you are on the blank split row.
17:31:28 <cedayiv> Perhaps I don't need to store a flag at all. Just don't pop up an exchange rate dialog unless the account cell has been edited AND the rate is zero.
17:35:53 <warlord> That still doesn't help you in a gain split. it would still pop up the dialog anytime you changed that account.
17:36:59 <warlord> but you're right that if you can use the SRInfo you could tell if this is the blank split vs. an existing split.
17:38:00 <warlord> Er.. But that doesn't help. Nevermind.
17:38:28 <warlord> Well, let me finish my thought, just in case it does.
17:38:45 <warlord> In the blank_split, need_exchange=TRUE. In an existing split need_exchange=FALSE.
17:39:52 <cedayiv> In an existing split, need_exchange=FALSE unless you change the account?
17:40:33 <warlord> If you change the account such that the currency is different then you need both zero-ize the rate and set need_exch=TRUE
17:40:54 <cedayiv> Even splits with non-zero exchange rates are supposed to ask for a new exchange rate when the account is changed. At least the code seems to want it that way.
17:41:03 <warlord> Yes.
17:41:12 <warlord> If the account is changed to a different commodity.
17:42:10 <cedayiv> OK, so for existing rows, only ask for a new exchange rate if the account is changed AND the new account has a different commodity than the old account. Correct?
17:42:44 <cedayiv> I saw a comment in the code about checking for a commodity change, but it wasn't actually being done.
17:42:54 <warlord> Correct.
17:43:19 <cedayiv> I think it was an open question.
17:44:52 <warlord> I think that yes, for existing rows only ask for a new exch rate if the account is changed AND the new account has a different commodity than the old account.
17:47:13 <cedayiv> When the account is changed, how can I find out what the commodity of the old account was?
17:47:29 <cedayiv> What is the MXFRM_CELL?
17:48:01 <warlord> I dont know offhand.. Sorry. (to either question)
17:49:23 <cedayiv> I see... MXFRM_CELL is the account cell in basic ledger mode ("transfer" column), whereas XFRM_CELL is the account cell in transaction journal mode.
17:51:52 <warlord> Ok
17:54:09 <cedayiv> So one of those cells will hold the name of the newly selected account. How to get the old one...
17:56:30 <warlord> umm.. check the split? ;)
17:57:10 <cedayiv> How about the used account in the split you can retrieve with gnc_split_register_get_current_split()? Wouldn't that contain the account the split was last saved with?
17:57:44 <warlord> maybe?
17:57:51 <warlord> (I think it should)
17:59:21 <cedayiv> OK, I'll test that theory out. If that works, then I don't need to store any flag. Just compare old and new commodities when leaving the row.
18:00:52 <warlord> ok
18:02:52 <cedayiv> Actually, I would think that changing the commodity alone is enough to need the exchange rate dialog. So on existing rows, pop up the dialog if the commodity has changed (and the new one isn't the transaction commodity). Doesn't matter if the exchange rate is zero or non-zero.
18:07:03 <cedayiv> (But if the code works right, it will already be zero.)
18:07:08 <warlord> Right.
18:08:06 <warlord> note that the only way to change the split commodity is by changing (or assinging) an account.
18:08:47 <cedayiv> OK. Good, I'll take a crack at that and see what happens.
18:09:50 <warlord> ok.
18:10:17 <warlord> Keep in mind that the rules are SOMEWHAT different for basic_register vs. expanded txns.
18:12:02 <cedayiv> Anything in particular to keep in mind? So far I have only been thinking from the expanded txns perspective.
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18:14:28 <warlord> well, in basic mode you still have three commodities, you need to pop up the dialog two of them are the same and the third is different.
18:14:40 <warlord> .. but it does matter which two are the same ;)
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18:19:13 <neptunepink> Hello, my mom is unable to reconcile one of her accounts. How is this fixed?
18:19:49 <warlord> How is it failing?
18:20:29 <neptunepink> Well, all of the other accounts, the finished button is enabled, but on this one account, the finished button is disabled
18:21:12 <warlord> That's because she hasn't clicked off all the reconciled transactions for that account, which means there is an error in her entry or an error in the bank.
18:21:36 <neptunepink> hrmmm
18:22:23 <warlord> If you enter in the bank's ending balance and then click off all the reconciled transactions from this (and, if necessary, all previous) statements then the balance will match.
18:23:26 <cedayiv> In registers, the amount is entered and displayed in terms of the register's commodity, isn't it? (At least those registers without a "price" column.) The transaction commodity could be something different. Is that right?
18:24:23 <warlord> correct.
18:24:45 <neptunepink> warlord: Ah, I see. I checked all of them, and the difference became $0, and the button was enabled. But I think she only wants to do a few of them or something...
18:25:24 <warlord> Well, then you entered the wrong "ending balance". What's the date and balance on your bank statement that you're reconciling against?
18:26:29 <cedayiv> OK, so in expanded mode if the new account's commodity is different from the register's commodity OR the transaction's commodity, we need an exchange rate dialog.
18:27:21 <warlord> is this on data entry or on update?
18:27:45 <cedayiv> An update
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18:29:06 <warlord> on update you only need the exch-rate dialog IFF the account changes AND the new account commodity != the old account commodity. Registery and TXN commodity are unimportant, i think.
18:29:06 <cedayiv> When updating in basic mode, if the new account's commodity is the same as the register, then you can copy the "other" split's exchange rate, so you don't have to ask the user for one. Otherwise, you do.
18:30:08 <warlord> (it's taking my brain way too long to swap all this in after all these years)
18:31:51 <warlord> in basic mode you have the same problem. BUT if you're in a case where you cannot enter the exch rate (because all three commodities differ) then you can't accept the split and have to force a split expansion..
18:33:09 <ben_goodger> I have a semi-relevant question
18:33:37 <warlord> ask away
18:33:47 <ben_goodger> is there any open-source stock management software, similar to the software responsible for recently flooring United Airlines' stock price (but ideally more reliable)?
18:34:10 <warlord> ummmm.. no clue
18:34:17 <jsled> uh?
18:34:29 <jsled> The UAUA problem was not a software problem.
18:34:34 <warlord> i know of no OSS stock market software
18:34:36 <jsled> (well, it was, but not trading software)
18:35:06 <cedayiv> I have to run... I'll see if can get work out the part where I try to identify the commodity of the "old" account, then come back.
18:35:15 <ben_goodger> I am told that the trading software bought and sold stocks based on bloomberg headlines; this seems quite a bug to me
18:35:17 <jsled> There was a concomitant major outage of a UK trading floor, but they're actually a MS shop. :)
18:35:23 <jsled> that's not what occurred.
18:35:25 <warlord> cedayiv: enjoy. You might want to come up with a matrix of all the various cases.
18:35:31 <jsled> Well, I take that back.
18:35:34 <jsled> Some software might.
18:35:41 <ben_goodger> I am aware of the balls-up at the FTSE
18:35:51 <ben_goodger> The Independent refuses to shut up about it
18:36:23 <jsled> the original problem AIUI was an analyst doing a google news search for "bankruptcy 2008" and seeing a 6-mo old story with a current timestamp.
18:36:43 <ben_goodger> yes
18:37:10 <jsled> I've definitely heard of problems in the software that automates transaction based on market conditions, but I've not heard of any that initiates trades based on news articles.
18:37:25 <ben_goodger> very well
18:37:28 <jsled> But, hell, I'd not be surprised. And what do I know, anyways. :)
18:37:45 <ben_goodger> are you aware of any open-source software that produces recommendations based on market conditions, then?
18:37:54 <jsled> nope.
18:37:57 <warlord> I wish I was paying attention so I could've bought when it was at like $3
18:38:04 <jsled> Or 0.01. :)
18:38:13 <warlord> yeah, or that
18:38:13 <ben_goodger> warlord: buy it now, it's $9.70 or something
18:38:22 <warlord> Nah, that's too high.
18:38:23 <ben_goodger> it was $12-ish apparently before
18:39:13 <cedayiv> UAL is a disaster if crude rises. All it takes is one well-placed hurricane or an attack on Iran. Be careful.
18:39:27 <warlord> right
18:39:29 <ben_goodger> *raises eyebrow*
18:39:32 <warlord> and I never fly UA
18:39:43 <jsled> well, isn't that true of all the airlines?
18:39:49 <ben_goodger> I wasn't seriously suggesting anybody should actually buy stock in a company trading in _USD_, for god's sake
18:39:59 <jsled> lol
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18:40:37 <jsled> Well, waddyaknow: http://www.reuters.com/article/reutersEdge/idUSN1039166420080910
18:40:41 <cedayiv> I wouldn't bet on GBP either.
18:41:11 <ben_goodger> indeed
18:41:20 <ben_goodger> though I'd bet on it more easily than USD
18:41:30 <cedayiv> Looking more attractive than a few weeks ago, though.
18:42:25 <ben_goodger> the price of crude has plummeted by 20%
18:42:56 <jsled> no longer at record highs, just historic ones. :)
18:43:00 <ben_goodger> also, our central bank has been predicting recession for the past nine months
18:43:06 <warlord> I'll start being happy if it gets below $100/barrel again
18:43:17 <ben_goodger> and property prices are dropping a lot
18:43:24 <cedayiv> Gold and silver by more... especially today. Ouch.
18:43:28 <ben_goodger> warlord: I'd be happy if it cost as much here as it does in the US
18:44:11 <ben_goodger> the price of 95-octane is $7.30/gal here
18:44:43 <cedayiv> Hard to tell. I really wanted to short oil at $135/bbl, but Iran stopped me.
18:44:58 <ben_goodger> not sure about diesel, but I think it's still around the $8.50 mark
18:45:13 <warlord> Why is Diesel more expensive? It's cheaper to make!
18:45:23 <ben_goodger> this is true
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18:45:37 <ben_goodger> it is also more efficient by up to 40%
18:45:46 <warlord> yeah
18:45:52 <ben_goodger> so the government levies 40% more fuel duty or some silly figure
18:46:09 <ben_goodger> also, demand is much higher here than in the US...something like half our cars run on it
18:46:21 <warlord> Diesel is more expensive here, too
18:46:30 <ben_goodger> it is?
18:46:32 <ben_goodger> hmm
18:46:46 <ben_goodger> it's really cheap in spain...
18:47:25 <neptunepink> ah, well, we'll see next month. :/
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18:47:35 <ben_goodger> why will we?
18:48:50 <ben_goodger> I recommend the US implement a suggestion that I saw recently: "OPEC exports oil to the US at $105/bbl, and imports US grain at $3/bushel; just link the price of grain to the price of oil and it will soon drop..."
18:50:42 <cedayiv> The US can start a grain version of OPEC... the US gets to control corn, Thailand gets to control rice, etc...
18:50:50 <ben_goodger> mmm
18:50:59 <ben_goodger> and the UK can control....erm.....
18:51:16 <ben_goodger> there must be something we don't import. help me out here
18:51:20 <cedayiv> malt? :)
18:51:32 <cedayiv> peat?
18:51:40 <ben_goodger> I don't think we export those in world-trade quantities...
18:52:20 <ben_goodger> hmm
18:52:26 <ben_goodger> I think we mostly export money
18:52:45 <ben_goodger> let's see
18:52:47 <cedayiv> I think the US is the king of that. :(
18:52:52 <ben_goodger> bugger that
18:53:01 <ben_goodger> but let's see
18:53:18 <ben_goodger> we import everything on my desk, except the paper
18:54:08 <cedayiv> Perhaps you could start exporting knighthoods on a larger scale.
18:54:17 <ben_goodger> we tried selling peerages
18:54:22 <ben_goodger> it didn't work out too well
18:56:15 <ben_goodger> my computer was designed in California and manufactured in the Far East. my monitor was designed and built by Samsung. this plate came from china, my car came from japan, my CDs came from germany, my aluminium drinks can came from germany, my watch came from spain, my car's fuel came from the north sea and the middle east
18:56:49 <ben_goodger> oh, I have something relevant to discuss
18:57:25 <ben_goodger> is there any way to do appropriation accounts in gnucash, i.e., stockholder dividends etc?
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19:06:14 <warlord> ben_goodger: Umm... negative Equity?
19:15:02 <ben_goodger> hmm
19:15:09 <ben_goodger> unpleasantly messy, but it will do...
19:16:26 <ben_goodger> should I open a dividends account, or just credit the shareholders?
19:17:06 <warlord> i dont know.
19:17:15 <warlord> What does your accountant suggest?
19:17:16 <ben_goodger> very well
19:17:45 <ben_goodger> my accountant doesn't open for nine hours and, furthermore, is only employed to do the returns
19:19:26 <ben_goodger> I do the books, and know how to do appropriation accounts on paper... but on paper, I haven't been taught to do anything involving actual accounts of the type used in gnucash
19:21:16 <ben_goodger> the college accounting course abstracts away from book-keeping very quickly, actually
19:23:19 <warlord> well, how would you do it on paper?
19:25:32 <ben_goodger> net profit before tax, less corporation tax, less interim dividends paid, less final dividends proposed, less transfers to reserves = retained profit for year
19:26:05 <ben_goodger> my problem is how to record the dividends in the double-entry system
19:28:49 <warlord> I think it would be from Assets -> Owners Dividends (Equity?)
19:29:21 <ben_goodger> sorry
19:29:35 <ben_goodger> a sub-account of Assets named Owners' Dividends, of type Equity?
19:30:20 <warlord> Nooo.......
19:30:38 <warlord> A transfer from Assets to Owners Dividends (probably of type Equity)
19:30:46 <warlord> "->" == Xfer
19:30:58 <warlord> <from> -> <to>
19:31:18 <ben_goodger> ah
19:31:46 <ben_goodger> that appears to work
19:31:46 <ben_goodger> thanks
19:31:52 <warlord> :)
19:31:55 <warlord> HtH
19:37:26 <ben_goodger> ?
19:38:24 <ben_goodger> I think I shall attempt to work out how much the price of oil is increased, per person, by the use of the four-speed automatic transmission in the US
19:38:49 <ben_goodger> then I can invoice people individually for my fuel bills :D
19:38:56 <warlord> HtH == Happy to Help
19:39:02 <ben_goodger> ah
19:39:19 <ben_goodger> thank you, friendly Wal-Mart employee
19:40:05 <ben_goodger> right, I have to go to bed
19:40:07 <ben_goodger> thank you for your help
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