2008-12-26 GnuCash IRC logs
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01:56:31 <mm_freak> thanks
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14:01:44 <vander1> Hey. I've never done this. Forgive me if this isn't right. I'm setting up gnucash for online access with the aqbanking thing and it works to download transactions, but when I do "Issue transaction" it looks like it starts to open and window and the window closes before I can even see what it is. Any ideas?
14:02:23 <andi5> what operating system and aqbanking version do you use, vander1?
14:03:01 <vander1> I use XP pro, and have 2.2.8
14:04:18 <andi5> well, windows and aqbanking is a bit problematic, because we do not yet support building against aqbanking3 yet, but aqbanking2 is not developed/supported any more... surely, your problem may be completely unrelated to a difference between those to major versions....
14:05:07 <andi5> i suppose you activated your gnucash account that you connected to your online banking account?
14:05:21 <andi5> i mean, did you click it on the account tree page?
14:05:36 <vander1> Hmmmm. Any suggestions? Oh, by the way I just realized you asked for the AqBanking version. I gave you then Gnucash version. My AqBanking version is 2.3.3 (according to the "backends" page)
14:06:35 <andi5> well, you could check the logs (see trace files in wiki.gnucash.org/wiki/Windows)
14:06:55 <vander1> Yes I did click on the account in the account tree page to open it before I selected "issue transaction"
14:06:59 <andi5> you could also start gnucash with --debug in bin\gnucash.bat and see whether it gives you more info
14:08:54 <vander1> ok. I will check into those things. Thank you very much for the help!
14:09:52 <andi5> feel free to raise further questions... i cannot guarantee to be here though, and windows development is an even more underpowered area for us :(
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14:45:57 <warlord> vander1: you have a German bank? Issuing a TXN is HBCI-only.
14:46:00 *** warlord is now known as warlord-afk
14:49:09 <vander1> Aha. No am in the united states - that's ofx right?
14:49:56 <andi5> i am sorry, i am so used to it...
14:50:45 <vander1> are you guys all in germany?
14:51:29 <ben|flu> I'm not, warlock's not
14:52:08 <vander1> but is this program mostly used with german banks? Just curious.
14:52:27 <ben|flu> I think it's quite difficult to tell
14:52:44 <andi5> no, but germany has a cool open online banking standard called hbci, supported by aqbanking
14:53:06 <Guy-> alas, nothing similar exists in Hungary, for example
14:53:30 <Guy-> many banks have some sort of online banking thing, but it's all proprietary and different for each bank
14:53:41 <ben|flu> same in GB
14:53:59 <Guy-> (some of them web based, some even Java; some supply their own client program)
14:54:07 <ben|flu> ugh
14:54:21 <ben|flu> what happens if you don't use windows or mac os x?
14:54:25 <vander1> Very Interesting. I really like Gnucash - just switched over from MS money and I think it's much more powerful, and very nice that it is free! Any chance that issuing transaction via OFX might be implemented sometime?
14:54:47 <Guy-> ben|flu: I don't think even Mac OS is supported by "Electra", which is the client supplied by at least two banks I know
14:54:55 <ben|flu> ugh
14:54:55 <Guy-> ben|flu: luckily, it runs fine with wine
14:55:05 <ben|flu> ah, good ^_^
14:55:08 <vander1> I don't know what would happen if I used a different OS - I don't have any linux systems setup so it wouldn't be easy for me to test it
14:55:32 <andi5> vander1: no, aqbanking3 does not change anything in that respect
14:55:56 <andi5> i doubt that there is some standard "ofx sink" we could stream data into
14:56:23 <vander1> Well, MS money could do it - definitely not enough reason for me to stay with it.
14:56:23 <Guy-> ben|flu: the Electra version I have to use for my company account even relies on a 'key disk', a floppy with a special file on it :)
14:56:51 <andi5> vander1: maybe they support a subset of the us banks, i simply do not know
14:56:56 <ben|flu> better than a printer port dongle
14:57:16 <vander1> Cool. Is there somewhere I could post it on a wishlist?
14:57:16 <Guy-> ben|flu: this was one of the most important reasons for me to run it under Linux; my notebook has no floppy drive, and faking one with wine is a lot easier :)
14:57:27 <ben|flu> Barclay's supply a small calculator-like device that generates a unique code when you insert your card
14:57:36 <ben|flu> heh
14:58:35 <andi5> vander1: make sure you search the internet first about aqbanking, ofx and transaction issuing (or another generic term)... gnucash on top of that is yet another story
14:59:01 <andi5> if you think you have seen some cool new standard aqbanking should support, contact martin preuss via the aqbanking-devel mailing list
14:59:35 <andi5> vander1: honestly, i have no clue about ofx, simply because there is no need to use it here in germany
14:59:47 <andi5> martin will know though
14:59:58 <vander1> andi5: ok. I'll do some research on that and I've made a note based on your advise. Thanks again!
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15:10:01 <mincepie> I found some more mince pies...
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17:26:00 <dennis> Anyone using gnucash built for osx/quartz?
17:26:19 <dennis> I've been attempting to get a build environment for gnucash on my mac w/ gtk-osx
17:26:32 <dennis> but it seems I keep running into a number of problems.
17:26:57 <dennis> So I'm wondering if it's worth my continued investment.
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17:39:21 <warlord> dennis: I've heard no no continual success of gnucash with gtk-quartz
17:39:40 <dennis> Sure would be nice to get a mac build one of these days.
17:39:47 <dennis> I've been using gnucash w/ fink.
17:40:12 <dennis> works but it's somewhat annoying as a developer to not be using a native program when the source is open :)
17:45:21 <warlord> By Mac Build do you necessarily mean gtk-quartz? Or just a .dmg that's prebuilt?
17:45:54 <dennis> gtk-quartz would be nice.
17:46:10 <dennis> but a .dmg that's prebuilt would be nice too.
17:46:12 <warlord> Sorry, gotta run.
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17:46:16 <dennis> no prob.
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19:17:33 <warlord> okay, back.
19:28:19 <dennis> I've read the Mac/Quartz wiki page through, and spent some time with the gtk-osx project.
19:28:39 <dennis> I also have installed their binary distribution and then installed a number of libs manually to test things out.
19:28:53 <dennis> it always seems there is something that just doesn't quite work.
19:29:08 <warlord> Yeah, I just dont think it's quite ready yet.
19:29:10 <dennis> I haven't yet got a build of gnucash.
19:29:24 <dennis> 1) you have to build the gtk framework.
19:29:36 <dennis> their binary doesn't have pangoft2
19:29:44 <warlord> Keep in mind that I think these are two separable problems: getting gnucash working with gtk-osx and making a .dmg installer of gnucash.
19:29:53 <dennis> yes
19:30:01 <dennis> I'm working on the gtk-osx part right now.
19:30:03 <warlord> One could theoretically make a .dmg installer of the current (gtk-X11) code.
19:30:15 <warlord> I think more people are interested in the .dmg installer.
19:30:19 <warlord> ... even if it requires X1
19:30:21 <warlord> X11
19:30:46 <dennis> whether it's built against gtk-osx or X11, there are a great number of deps that it's a little shaky as how they should be done.
19:31:04 <dennis> for instance, should they all be included on one dmg?
19:31:06 <warlord> Well, for a .dmg it should all be self-contained.
19:31:09 <warlord> Yes.
19:31:41 <dennis> my point being, what if the user uses lots of custom gnu software and some of those libraries are already on their system.
19:31:53 <dennis> + the dmg is much larger than the gnucash program itself.
19:32:03 <dennis> I'd wager most mac users don't care really though.
19:32:54 <dennis> my current issue is that I keep getting libfontconfig is not of required architecture when trying to build cairo
19:32:55 <dennis> :(
19:33:26 <dennis> I've tried -m32 and -m64 from the ground up on the whole gtk-osx thing but it seems somewhere either the flag is getting ignored or something.
19:33:39 <dennis> but that is more a gtk-osx thing than a gnucash thing.
19:36:10 <warlord> I think that the majority of users dont care about another gnome app; they just want gnucash.
19:36:33 <dennis> True that too.
19:36:59 <warlord> So putting it all in 1 dmg is the right answer.
19:37:32 <dennis> My personal incentive is to get a GnuCash.app that I don't have to rebuild when there is a new version.
19:37:52 <dennis> I want the option of building though so I can perhaps enhance a couple things that bother me.
19:38:00 <dennis> which is why I'm playing around with gtk-osx.
19:38:14 <warlord> what do you mean, dont have to rebuild when there is a new version?
19:38:17 <dennis> I can already build w/ fink and it works fine, but It'd be cool to have a native app I think.
19:38:39 <dennis> Eventually, I want to download and install a .dmg file instead of building the application from source.
19:38:52 <warlord> right...
19:39:04 <warlord> i think that's what the majority of people want..
19:39:17 <warlord> and they wont care if it's still an x11 app
19:40:05 <dennis> That's true for some, but it really is nicer to have the app intergrated.
19:40:10 <warlord> ... which is why i think it's better to work on the .dmg now... then when gtk-osx is ready we can swap over to using it
19:40:31 <dennis> X11 apps don't participate well in the overall mac environment, e.g., alt-tab switching etc.
19:40:54 <warlord> i think you're missing my point
19:40:58 <dennis> or command-tab rather.
19:41:11 <dennis> no I understand what your saying.
19:41:23 <dennis> You're right that a dmg file is the best 1st setp.
19:41:53 <warlord> I think creating a dmg is going to be MUCH easier than getting gtk-osx working..
19:42:07 <warlord> so might as well make users happy with a dmg.
19:42:27 <warlord> and then when gtk-osx is ready... BOOM! the new Gnucash.App uses it!
19:42:44 <dennis> yeah
19:42:51 <dennis> is there any reason gtk-osx isn't ready?
19:43:04 <dennis> All I know of at this point, is that you need to build your own version
19:43:07 <warlord> i have no idea... you'd have to ask them
19:43:27 <dennis> because the download library doesn't have the right fontconfig dependencies.
19:44:02 <dennis> but the author of the wiki page on Max/Quartz built it apparently.
19:44:07 <warlord> that's something you'll have to ask them
19:44:09 <dennis> he didn't comment on how well it worked though.
19:44:31 <warlord> he also built it a while ago.. the deps might have broken since his last attempt.
19:45:04 <dennis> true
19:45:21 <warlord> Do you know anything about making .dmg installers?
19:45:38 <dennis> not a ton, but I could probably figure it out in 1/2 an hour.
19:45:48 <warlord> OOOH!!
19:45:54 <warlord> would you be willing to do that?
19:46:07 <warlord> you'd have tons of mac users singing your name in praise!
19:46:09 <dennis> I'm pretty versed in all the xcode tools.
19:46:25 <dennis> I'll play around with it over the next few days.
19:46:27 <warlord> ( it's too bad it's so hard to run OSX in a VM on a PC )
19:46:44 <dennis> perhaps I can base the install off the fink scripts.
19:47:00 <dennis> fink seems to be the most stable environment right now for getting gnucash up.
19:47:39 <dennis> I haven't tried macports but they have a 2.2.7 port now.
19:48:06 <dennis> I'm not sure really what the difference between the fink and macports philosophy or methodology is really though, I've only tried fink.
19:48:39 <warlord> Yeah, I think Fink is ahead right now.
19:48:55 <dennis> but fink allows you to build into a specific prefix. I built an apple script launcher with the GnuCash icon and it launches my fink install.
19:49:05 <warlord> Neat.
19:49:21 <warlord> I just dont know how to build a "relocatable" GnuCash.App .dmg
19:49:23 <dennis> All you'd have to do is build a fink install into the dmg prefix and then put the applescript launcher to launch it.
19:49:49 <dennis> That is the biggest issue.
19:50:19 <dennis> Perhaps users wouldn't mind always haveing the GnuCash.app inside /Applications no matter what??
19:51:32 <warlord> That's always an option?
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19:55:14 <dennis> Creating a disk image isn't too hard. I don't know if it's easy to script, but the mac's disk utility allows you to create a new image.
19:55:22 <dennis> You can put whatever you want on it.
19:56:13 <warlord> i'm ure there's some way to script it.
19:56:23 <warlord> mythtv has an osx-instller
19:57:42 <dennis> Yeah, there are a miriad of open source projects w/ osx installers.
19:57:47 <dennis> tons of python packages have them.
19:58:03 <dennis> heck, even the gtk-osx project has an installer for it's Framework.
19:58:55 <warlord> What I mean is that there's a script that supposedly builds one.
19:59:51 <dennis> yeah.
20:02:10 <warlord> so it's clearly scriptabe
20:02:12 <dennis> I found a couple resources for creating application installers.
20:02:13 <warlord> scriptable
20:02:30 <warlord> mythtv/contrib/OSX/osx-packager.pl
20:02:44 <dennis> I'll give that a lookthrough.
20:06:15 <warlord> ok
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22:50:19 <warlord> good night all.
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