2008-12-31 GnuCash IRC logs

00:28:04 *** warlord is now known as warlord-afk
02:19:14 *** palatin has joined #gnucash
02:50:36 *** MechtiIde has quit IRC
03:40:09 *** MechtiIde has joined #gnucash
06:48:03 *** MechtiIde has quit IRC
08:08:00 *** |gunni| has joined #gnucash
08:10:40 *** |gunni| has quit IRC
08:16:55 *** palatin has quit IRC
09:02:00 *** warlord-afk is now known as warlord
09:02:18 *** kielein has joined #gnucash
09:05:43 *** JimRaehl has left #gnucash
09:08:52 *** MechtiIde has joined #gnucash
09:18:29 *** JimRaehl has joined #gnucash
09:24:53 *** palatin has joined #gnucash
10:06:21 *** nomeata has joined #gnucash
10:41:54 <warlord> wow, the server stayed up overnight! Cool.
11:08:09 *** andi5 has joined #gnucash
11:14:42 *** warlord is now known as warlord-afk
11:24:17 <linas> ohh warlord has been talking about me
11:26:24 <linas> warlord-afk -- a request: can you place the occasional backup snapshot of svn and mail archives on www.gnucash? I'd like to have these in the unlikely case of fire/theft/earthquake, etc.
12:15:03 *** warlord-afk is now known as warlord
12:15:15 <warlord> linas: I can try.. I know that hampton was taking a daily snaphot.
12:15:22 <warlord> linas: also, I just sent you email about a DNS issue.
12:15:28 *** sjc has joined #gnucash
12:34:11 <linas> fixed the DNS issue.
12:35:13 <warlord> cool. thanks. what was the prob?
12:35:31 <linas> ahh, maybe we should talk to hampton; it was long my hope that this network of machines could provide this kind of backup.
12:35:53 <linas> the dns prob was that the security modules were not allowing the file to be written
12:36:17 <warlord> We have an account set up for him that basically does an rsync of the server every night. Although I suspect his server has stopped because I haven't seen the login in my daily logs.
12:36:22 <warlord> Oh. oops!
12:36:26 <warlord> Thanks for fixing.
12:37:00 <warlord> cooll, I see the AXFR now. Yay.
12:38:50 <linas> you waouldn't happen to have Hampton's email handy?
12:41:20 <warlord> Last tested in April, 2008
12:42:25 <linas> thx
12:51:28 <warlord> np.
12:51:29 <warlord> Happy New year.
12:51:47 *** fwaokda has joined #gnucash
12:53:08 <mincepie> indeed
12:54:02 <andi5> anyone in 2009 already?
12:54:11 <mincepie> andi5: everyone east of calcutta.
12:54:19 <andi5> anyone here, i mean
12:54:32 <mincepie> erm... possibly?
13:06:24 <fwaokda> is there a gnucash icon i can download and correct in my ubuntu menu?
13:07:02 <jsled> fwaokda: it should be in the distribution...
13:07:05 * jsled looks
13:07:19 <fwaokda> i download the latest release from getdeb.net
13:07:29 <andi5> what version?
13:07:35 <fwaokda> 2.2.8
13:07:35 <jsled> /usr/share/icons/hicolor/scalable/apps/gnucash-icon.svg here
13:08:04 <andi5> hm...
13:08:53 <andi5> typically /usr/share/icons/hicolor/22x22/apps/gnucash-icon.png is the one used by the stock gnome desktop (at least that is what i have seen most)
13:09:41 <fwaokda> found it
13:09:42 <jsled> yeah, there's also /usr/share/icons/hicolor/{16x16,22x22,24x24,32x32,48x48}/ here
13:09:50 <fwaokda> thanks jsled
13:10:02 <fwaokda> it just wasn't showing up in the menu but now i can correct that :D
13:10:17 <andi5> that is weird...
13:10:38 <andi5> is gnucash-icon in /usr/share/applications/gnucash.desktop?
13:10:43 <jsled> I think our .desktop entry is wrong. If it's even used by the packaging.
13:11:20 <andi5> why do you think that?
13:13:56 <jsled> I recall it was wrong. Perhaps it was since corrected. Or my memory is faulty.
13:14:00 <mincepie> I can tell you that on my debian installation of 2.2.6, the icon appears fine (though still inexplicably features pictures of USD)
13:14:35 <jsled> mincepie: which icon? The chart/green-cash/gold-coins tango-themed version?
13:14:40 <mincepie> *nod*
13:14:55 <jsled> how is that inexplicable? :)
13:15:30 <mincepie> why on earth should it feature United States Dollars? 96% of the world does not live in the US
13:16:14 <warlord> Because 96% of the developers do.
13:16:22 <warlord> (well, okay, that's an exageration)
13:16:24 <jsled> Well, no, that's not the reason either.
13:16:33 <warlord> I know. I'm just being difficult.
13:16:33 <jsled> The icon designer chose the color.
13:16:45 <andi5> are we talking about yellow and green?
13:16:49 <jsled> there's nothing that indicates it's the USD apart from color. But it's a well-known color for money.
13:17:09 <andi5> yep, that is my opinion as well, nothing usd-ish anymore
13:17:10 * jsled whatevers.
13:17:30 <andi5> the splash icon reminds me of the one-euro-coin :)
13:17:38 <andi5> splash screen, even
13:17:44 <mincepie> I see little darkened circles in the corners and a larger one in the middle
13:18:32 <andi5> are you looking at the svg?
13:18:37 <andi5> everything else i just too tiny for me
13:18:39 <mincepie> yeaah
13:18:44 <andi5> nobody does that
13:19:16 <mincepie> I can still see the circles in the png
13:19:43 <mincepie> anyway
13:20:06 <mincepie> the icon is included and appears properly on my system
13:20:12 <warlord> Most money I've seen in my world travels looks pretty similar.. numbers in the corners, and some picture in the middle.
13:28:15 *** nomeata has quit IRC
13:39:59 <andrewsw> hi all, happy new year
13:41:01 <mincepie> the arbitrarily-chosen date at which we increment the "year" section of our date system is approaching. let us therefore DDoS the world's SMS and GSM networks
13:41:18 <andrewsw> indeed!
13:42:03 <andrewsw> how about: may the ensuing 365 or so days provide you with much happiness
13:42:06 <andi5> will we all get arrested when we call the police at the same time?
13:42:16 <andrewsw> heh hi andi5
13:42:47 <andi5> happy new year andrewsw
13:42:55 <andi5> 4 hours left here
13:43:02 <mincepie> I'm more concerned with idiots calling their friends to scream "happy new year" or drunken approximations thereof, and so _preventing_ emergency calls from being placed
13:43:45 <andi5> mincepie: sure... whenever you think you could reach a real telephone, rather run there first
13:44:05 <andi5> (iff its not back into the fire)
13:44:34 <mincepie> I would have no idea of where to get to a real telephone at some times of day
13:44:44 <mincepie> unless it's by smashing into someone's house
13:44:52 *** sjc has quit IRC
13:45:08 <andrewsw> I have real copper phone lines connected to an actual telephone. You are welcome any time.
13:45:16 <andi5> ok, let us just hope we do not need it this year
13:45:17 <andrewsw> oh and get off my lawn!
13:45:28 <andi5> hehe
13:47:19 <andi5> furtunately, the economic crisis does not mean that we cannot shoot fireworks into the air, for no obvious reasons, and even a lot before midnight...
13:47:22 <mincepie> well, my house does too
13:47:46 <mincepie> but if I were in a city centre this evening (which I might be) then I'd be hard pressed to make an emergency call without a mobile phone
13:47:57 <andrewsw> :( we aren't allowed fireworks. Not that that'd stop me, but the massive pile of snow prevents ready access to indian reservations.
13:48:22 <mincepie> dang :P
13:48:28 <andrewsw> hey, looks like svn.g.o is up!
13:48:58 <andi5> svn, lists and so on are all the same (imho), so when you see mails coming it, it is up
13:49:36 <andrewsw> i think it's more than your opinion... ;-P
13:49:48 <andi5> you never know
13:50:32 <andrewsw> so, on-topic (sorry). is it reasonable to make all development in a dbi backend context?
13:50:56 <andrewsw> IOW, are we abandoning the xml in the next major release and so should ignore it for future work?
13:51:50 <andi5> that question goes to our software archit.... well
13:52:23 <andi5> do you want to change the file format?
13:52:29 <andrewsw> when did we get one of those? oh...
13:52:47 *** sjc has joined #gnucash
13:53:03 <andrewsw> no, I'm just contemplating whether to bother with keeping track of different versions of test files etc.
13:53:34 <warlord> No, we are not abandoning XML.
13:54:03 <andrewsw> ok.
13:54:30 <warlord> In 2.4 the default "new file" format will be SQLite, but it will continue to happily use the XML format.
13:54:34 <warlord> And I think that's a good thing.
13:54:44 <warlord> We should keep the XML format as a data interchange format.
13:55:20 <andrewsw> makes sense. I'm not lobbying either way.
13:55:34 <warlord> well, xml is certainly going to stick around through 2.4
13:55:40 <andi5> andrewsw: can i make you lobby for my personal aims?
13:55:47 <warlord> and even in 2.6 we should still be able to read it (even if you dont write it anymore)
13:55:59 <mincepie> oo-er
13:56:12 <mincepie> need I remind you of the effects of firefox moving to sqlite?
13:56:12 <andrewsw> andi5: of course!
13:56:22 <andi5> yes, please do
13:56:24 <andrewsw> mincepie: yes
13:56:38 <andi5> i recently cursed about evo going to sqlite for imap index caching
13:56:49 <warlord> Any more responses to my email about the new hardware?
13:56:59 <andi5> warlord: +1 from me, i have no clue about these topics
13:57:25 <andi5> i think hardware is the part that runs the software, right?
13:57:42 <warlord> right. ;)
13:57:59 <warlord> what's wrong with evo going to sqlite for imap index caching?
13:58:00 <mincepie> it has become slow. painfully slow... and every time I hard-reset my computer, my history and bookmarks are deleted because the database is corrupted beyond all measure (though a parallel seems moderately unlikely to occur in gnucash)
13:58:35 <andi5> warlord: they missed some limiting or some other strange thing... anyway, after a few hours on my work imap, evo ate 2 GB of mem
13:58:48 <warlord> Oh. Ouch!
13:58:50 <andi5> well, i only had 2 GB physical mem anyway
13:59:21 <mincepie> obviously, if gnucash's database is corrupted in future by a hard reset, I will be unable to continue using it, and that will be a grave inconvenience
13:59:39 <jsled> evo's always been a pig.
13:59:56 <jsled> gnome did a specific profiling iteration a couple of years ago, and evo got much better.
14:00:01 <jsled> For one release.
14:00:02 <andi5> jsled: well, i changed to a masterpeace...pig
14:00:14 <warlord> Are you saying that sqlite doesn't fflush() after every write? Or that evo's use of it doesn't let it flush?
14:00:31 <jsled> But I've not used it for many moons, now, so maybe it got better again.
14:00:41 <andi5> jsled: i think it got better, really
14:00:43 <andi5> until 2.22
14:00:50 <andi5> including it, sorry for short messages
14:01:22 <andrewsw> warlord: read the -devel thread: +1 again on _prebuilt_ system as described here yesterday.
14:01:25 <andi5> warlord: i simply do not know... i switched to thunderbird before going on vacation
14:02:02 <andrewsw> mincepie: how often are you having to hard-reset? I've not seen this problem, but don't have any hard-reset issues.
14:02:15 <andrewsw> so I guess that follows
14:02:37 <mincepie> whenever storms knock out the power supply to my house, which is infuriatingly often
14:02:42 <andi5> hm... are there any plans for a backup strategy, or are they outside of gnucash land as encryption is?
14:03:03 <mincepie> about ten times a year
14:03:09 <warlord> andrewsw: has there beena reply to the mail I sent yesterday?
14:03:26 <andi5> mincepie: i suppose hard-killing ffx does the same?
14:03:52 * andrewsw is woefully behind on email
14:04:52 <mincepie> andi5: no, that merely results in some really annoying lock problems. the database corruption arises from NFS failing to complete the write operation, but that's besides the point
14:05:10 <mincepie> backups are, apparently, made, but FF never restores from them, even if I explicitly tell it to
14:05:11 <warlord> Ahhh.. You didn't say "SQLIte on NFS!"
14:05:14 <fwaokda> I'm a student, and I was looking for some software to keep track of my spending and income(?) and let me know if I was overspending and where most of my money was going etc etc. Is gnucash something I'd use for this? OR would i be better off using a pencil and paper and the online banking page that my bank provides?
14:05:33 <warlord> fwaokda: yes, gnucash is great for that.
14:05:37 <mincepie> warlord: the cause of corruption is irrelevant
14:05:43 <andrewsw> warlord: same as before. go baby go. and +1 on the extra space. and if you need a place to house that machine, I have room right here! ;)
14:05:47 <warlord> mincepie: it's is completely relevant.
14:06:04 <warlord> You can ALWAYS find ways to corrupt data.
14:06:13 <warlord> The question is whether it's a software, hardware, or system cause.
14:06:19 <fwaokda> warlord, is there a tutorial or something I could follow then on getting started? Because currently its kinda confusing.
14:06:20 <warlord> and that's DEFINITELY relevant.
14:06:21 *** kielein has quit IRC
14:06:28 <andrewsw> fwaokda: Gnucash is a replacement for pencil and paper.
14:06:29 <mincepie> the problem is the way that firefox handles the corruption
14:06:35 <warlord> fwaokda: sure, the GnuCash Tutorial and Concepts Guide is quite good.
14:06:50 <mincepie> other databases get corrupted in the same hard resets, and other programs appear unscathed
14:06:56 <fwaokda> warlord, where do i find that in the program or internet?
14:07:02 <warlord> www.gnucash.org
14:07:03 <andrewsw> fwaokda: that means, if you don't track that stuff now, gnucash won't help you development habits etc. But it's a great tool designed for exactly that purpose.
14:07:19 <mincepie> gnucash, if it moves to sqlite, must make _absolutely certain_ that it is database-write-error-proof
14:07:25 <andi5> mincepie: well, gnucash will not work non-valid xml files as of today....
14:07:25 <mincepie> that's my point, I suppose
14:07:30 <andi5> s,work,open,
14:07:44 <mincepie> yes, but it keeps backups whose restore operations work
14:07:47 <mincepie> dinenr
14:08:06 <warlord> mincepie: gnucash cannot control the user's hardware crashing in the middle of an atomic operation.
14:08:09 <warlord> nor should it.
14:08:42 <warlord> biab..
14:08:43 *** warlord is now known as warlord-afk
14:29:36 *** warlord-afk is now known as warlord
14:35:37 <andi5> ciao and have a happy new year, you americans :)
14:35:47 <andrewsw> ciao andi5
14:35:57 <jsled> cheers
14:36:01 <andrewsw> you too you german(?)
14:36:24 <andi5> s, cstim...
14:36:45 <andi5> anyway, cheers
14:36:48 *** andi5 has quit IRC
14:50:04 *** eukreign has quit IRC
14:50:07 <mincepie> heh
15:57:38 *** gxti has joined #gnucash
15:59:33 <gxti> i'm having some problems importing a .qfx from my bank for a credit card; transactions i marked not to be imported are still being imported (badly). is there a known bug for this?
16:02:54 <warlord> how are you telling it not to import those txns?
16:03:10 <warlord> (the OFX importer has lots of problems where it can create imbalanced txns)
16:03:31 <gxti> neither add nor reconcile are checked and the item is shown in red
16:03:35 <jsled> you can search the bugs db at <http://bugzilla.gnome.org/browse.cgi?product=GnuCash>, fwiw.
16:05:00 <gxti> and yes, it's creating imbalanced transactions, but i don't want them imported at all, as they've already been entered and reconciled
16:37:23 *** dbreiser has joined #gnucash
16:37:35 <dbreiser> gxti: http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=434944
16:46:58 *** ska has joined #gnucash
17:12:40 *** palatin has quit IRC
18:48:51 *** MechtiIde has quit IRC
19:05:00 *** mincepie has quit IRC
19:09:19 *** chris has quit IRC
19:09:32 *** linas has quit IRC
19:10:56 *** benjamin has joined #gnucash
19:21:21 *** benjamin is now known as goodger
19:25:46 *** chris has joined #gnucash
21:17:57 *** sjc has quit IRC
21:26:20 *** warlord is now known as warlord-afk
21:36:06 *** linas has joined #gnucash