2014-08-28 GnuCash IRC logs
00:05:14 *** kpreid has quit IRC
00:05:51 *** kpreid has joined #gnucash
00:07:31 *** comcry has quit IRC
00:07:31 *** O01eg has quit IRC
00:07:31 *** Unhammer has quit IRC
00:07:31 *** jralls has quit IRC
00:07:31 *** mishehu has quit IRC
00:07:31 *** warlord has quit IRC
00:07:31 *** skomorokh has quit IRC
00:07:31 *** ryanakca has quit IRC
00:07:31 *** Coderjoe has quit IRC
00:07:31 *** Absurd-Mind has quit IRC
00:07:31 *** mlq has quit IRC
00:10:40 *** calp has quit IRC
00:12:34 *** jralls has joined #gnucash
00:12:34 *** calp has joined #gnucash
00:12:34 *** comcry has joined #gnucash
00:12:34 *** O01eg has joined #gnucash
00:12:34 *** Unhammer has joined #gnucash
00:12:34 *** mishehu has joined #gnucash
00:12:34 *** warlord has joined #gnucash
00:12:34 *** skomorokh has joined #gnucash
00:12:34 *** ryanakca has joined #gnucash
00:12:34 *** Coderjoe has joined #gnucash
00:12:34 *** Absurd-Mind has joined #gnucash
00:12:34 *** mlq has joined #gnucash
00:12:34 *** irc.gimp.ca sets mode: +oo jralls warlord
00:12:34 *** gncbot sets mode: +o jralls
00:12:35 *** gncbot sets mode: +o warlord
00:13:28 *** zarchne has quit IRC
00:13:32 *** zarchne has joined #gnucash
00:44:12 *** fell_afk has quit IRC
01:26:01 *** comcry has quit IRC
01:26:28 *** comcry has joined #gnucash
01:27:05 *** comcry is now known as comcry__
01:58:33 *** GabrieleV_ has joined #gnucash
01:58:59 *** GabrieleV has quit IRC
01:58:59 *** GabrieleV_ is now known as GabrieleV
02:13:14 *** floh1111 has joined #gnucash
02:34:28 *** O01eg has quit IRC
02:47:41 *** wol has joined #gnucash
02:50:28 *** wol has quit IRC
02:55:19 *** wol has joined #gnucash
03:00:28 *** aqua___ has joined #gnucash
03:30:17 *** Shaan_ has quit IRC
04:11:42 *** aqua___ has quit IRC
04:17:19 *** wol has quit IRC
04:17:21 *** wol has joined #gnucash
04:27:46 *** wol has quit IRC
04:42:43 *** wol has joined #gnucash
05:03:56 *** wol has quit IRC
05:23:35 *** wol has joined #gnucash
05:40:25 *** fell_afk has joined #gnucash
05:40:26 *** gncbot sets mode: +o fell_afk
05:40:50 *** fell_afk is now known as fell
05:43:39 *** wol has quit IRC
06:16:37 *** wol has joined #gnucash
06:34:07 *** wol has quit IRC
06:34:22 *** wol has joined #gnucash
06:38:18 *** Jimraehl1 has left #gnucash
06:42:01 *** gjanssens has quit IRC
06:42:01 *** Jimraehl1 has joined #gnucash
06:47:41 *** wol has quit IRC
06:47:46 *** wol has joined #gnucash
06:49:54 *** gjanssens has joined #gnucash
06:49:54 *** gncbot sets mode: +o gjanssens
07:40:46 *** aqua___ has joined #gnucash
07:58:57 *** wol has quit IRC
08:10:52 *** himaxx has joined #gnucash
08:12:36 *** himaxx has quit IRC
08:50:01 *** wol has joined #gnucash
09:24:02 *** wol has quit IRC
09:47:36 *** wol has joined #gnucash
09:50:22 <warlord> fell: sorry, went to bed. the 40m was the time from your "pushing" to "still pushing". But I did see multiple pushes from you via email.
09:51:07 <warlord> fell: you should definitely talk to jralls and gjanssens before you rebase like that. I think there are changes in master that definitely shouldn't be in maint (and there might be changes in maint that are maint-specific)
09:51:49 <warlord> shaunm: sorry, went to bed and only getting back now. The layout is easy to adjust via a new .chk format file. As for the wording.... how is that different?
09:56:21 <gjanssens> fell: rebasing master on maint will bring more pain than gain
09:56:56 <gjanssens> for one if one commit on master has conflicting changes with maint, this conflict is resolved during a merge
09:57:05 <gjanssens> and will not reappear in future merges
09:57:30 <gjanssens> however if you rebase, the conflict will have to be resolved with each future rebase
09:57:39 <gjanssens> over and over again
09:57:57 <gjanssens> as conflicts accumulate over time this will become unmanageable
09:58:29 <gjanssens> Apart from that public branches should never be rebased (maint, master, and version branches once we create them)
09:59:03 <gjanssens> and git will prevent you from pushing such rebases accidentally
09:59:49 <gjanssens> if you rebase master for example in your local repository, and then push it, git will tell you it is rebased and will only let you force-push it
10:00:12 <gjanssens> and force-pushing means you screw up all other devs' local history
10:00:38 <gjanssens> so this is strongly discouraged in git unless you have a very good reason
10:01:30 *** wol has quit IRC
10:03:24 *** wol has joined #gnucash
10:05:15 <warlord> gjanssens: thanks :)
10:06:05 <gjanssens> warlord, you're welcome :)
10:09:30 * warlord found out yesterday that the new router cannot do ipv6 policy-based routing. :(
10:29:32 <fell> warlord: From which museum did you get it? ;-)
10:31:09 <fell> gjanssens: Thanks for the long explanation. Other question: Do we really need 2 branches of docs?
10:31:57 <warlord> fell: it's running RouterOS 6.18, the most recent release as of Aug 1
10:32:37 <warlord> Apparently it's been a long-standing complaint (I found a thread going back to 2012)
10:34:04 <gjanssens> fell: we need two branches because new features may only appear in master and hence should only be documented in master
10:34:44 <gjanssens> but if you find that too complicated, no worries
10:34:50 *** O01eg has joined #gnucash
10:35:00 <gjanssens> everything you push to maint will eventually be picked up in master
10:35:09 <gjanssens> when another dev does the merge
10:35:17 <fell> Usually the docs are far behind the program.
10:35:59 <gjanssens> heh, true
10:36:01 <gjanssens> but not always
10:36:33 <gjanssens> we did have multiple branches in svn already as well by the way
10:36:38 <fell> New features should usually start with "Since version x.y ...
10:36:58 <gjanssens> only they were called differently
10:37:09 <gjanssens> we had trunk and 2.4 for example
10:38:10 <gjanssens> Agreed on the new features introduction preamble
10:38:19 <fell> Yeah, but because the porting direction changed I was rethinking this.
10:39:05 <gjanssens> Still I wouldn't want to release 2.6.4 in september mentioning "since 2.8.x something..."
10:41:41 *** cigarshark has joined #gnucash
10:41:51 <gjanssens> Other than that I agree we only need the master branch once we have the first 2.8 only feature documented
10:46:31 <gjanssens> There is one commit on master so far that's not on maint: it documents the ranged report generation improvement for budgets
10:47:10 <gjanssens> This is feature exists only on master in code as well, so the documentation for it should only appear in master as well
10:47:41 <gjanssens> Other than that I repeat I'm fine if you plainly ignore the master branch in documentation
10:47:59 <gjanssens> Any changes in maint will eventually get merged
10:53:09 *** wol has quit IRC
11:01:04 *** mlncn has quit IRC
11:08:43 *** aqua___ has quit IRC
11:13:24 *** wol has joined #gnucash
11:18:51 *** mlncn has joined #gnucash
11:20:16 *** floh1111 has quit IRC
11:25:30 *** wol has quit IRC
11:29:15 *** mlncn has quit IRC
11:52:56 *** wol has joined #gnucash
11:57:21 *** jimvideo has joined #gnucash
12:09:19 *** mlncn has joined #gnucash
12:19:21 <mikee> gjanssens: do I need to clone your repo to get the lot_links code?
12:19:52 <gjanssens> mikee: no
12:19:57 *** wol has quit IRC
12:20:07 <gjanssens> just run the two commands I gave in the bug report
12:20:08 <mikee> oh!
12:20:15 <mikee> Ok did that
12:20:34 <mikee> I can't see the new branch
12:20:42 <gjanssens> the lot_links branch is based on maint
12:21:02 <gjanssens> hmm, let me try myself here
12:21:49 <mikee> git says, Your branch is ahead of 'origin/maint' by 15 commits.
12:22:11 <mikee> I guess that means I have it then.
12:23:10 <gjanssens> Indeed
12:23:15 <mikee> I should have made a new local branch perhaps.
12:23:16 *** floh1111 has joined #gnucash
12:23:25 <gjanssens> It appears my command pulls in the commits into your maint branch directly
12:25:23 <mikee> OK, I'll need to re-sync my local maint with origin/maint then.
12:26:04 <gjanssens> Yes. The command should have been
12:26:10 <gjanssens> git pull https://github.com/gjanssens/gnucash lot_links:lot_links
12:26:35 <gjanssens> That would pull my branch in a local branch called lot_links as well
12:26:39 <gjanssens> Sorry about that
12:27:55 <mikee> Is OK :)
12:28:05 <gjanssens> The push/pull incantations are still new for me as well :)
12:28:19 <gjanssens> I have added the correct commands to the bug as well
12:28:44 <gjanssens> BTW for others interested, mikee and I are talking about https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=734921
12:29:11 <gjanssens> If you can help test the improved payment handling I pushed, please do and report any issues on the bug
12:29:37 <mikee> OK fixed and now building in a new branch.
12:29:45 <gjanssens> That is invoice/bill/credit note payments and how this was creating an abundance of lot links
12:29:58 <gjanssens> Fingers crosses ;)
12:30:09 <gjanssens> s/crosses/crossed/
12:32:27 <gjanssens> fell, nice to see some commits from you again !
12:33:26 <fell> Why not, after we discussed above.
12:34:11 <gjanssens> Oh, I also meant in general and was commenting on your yesterday's commits :)
12:34:28 <gjanssens> I have just browsed through your changes
12:34:48 <gjanssens> The commit re credits not decreasing equity seems to need some more attention
12:35:09 <gjanssens> I have read your changed text multiple times and still can't make sense out of it.
12:35:22 <gjanssens> What is "the right side of an account" ?
12:35:55 <fell> the contrary of the left side
12:36:07 <gjanssens> and it continues with "and is associated with decreases in asset and expense, but increases of income, liability and equity accounts."
12:36:43 * gjanssens is not aware of accounts having left and right sides
12:36:58 <gjanssens> But perhaps I'm getting lost in translations here
12:37:28 <gjanssens> Do you mean account balance ? Left/right side of an account balance ?
12:37:48 <fell> the traditional names of the columns of an account are debit(l) and credit(r)
12:37:58 <gjanssens> Native English lurkers, can you chime in ?
12:38:49 <fell> Traditinally an account has a T form: on the top the name, and the columns debit and credit.
12:39:19 <gjanssens> Ok, I see what you mean now. The wiki page you refer to seems to call this an "account ledger", is that correct ?
12:39:25 <fell> That is not english but late latin/eary italian.
12:41:18 <gjanssens> So do you mean to say "the right side of an account ledger" ?
12:45:56 <fell> can you have a look at the german version of that article?
12:47:09 <mikee> IANAA :(
12:48:26 <mikee> Debit and credit are the terms I use. No idea about which is on which side of the T though.
12:48:33 <fell> (just for the picture)
12:50:17 <gjanssens> I know the principle. I'm just wondering if this is called "an account" in English or "an account ledger"
12:50:49 * gjanssens looked at the picture on the German site
12:51:30 <gjanssens> And I'm only bringing it up because it took me a while to figure out what you meant to say
12:51:44 <gjanssens> And started wondering what this is called in English
12:52:46 <gjanssens> But that's probably just a nit-pick.
12:53:10 <gjanssens> I'm more concerned with the flow to the full sentence:
12:54:08 <gjanssens> ...in accounting, credit means affecting the right side of an account, and is associated with decreases in asset and expense, but increases of income, liability and equity accounts.
12:55:12 <gjanssens> Dooh
12:55:24 <gjanssens> While typing it here, I finally understood
12:55:58 <fell> Feel free to improve it, but before it was just wrong.
12:56:12 <gjanssens> This can definitely look like a weird sentence if you (like me) interpret "increases" as a verb.
12:57:03 <gjanssens> Ok, how about:
12:57:09 <fell> Perhaps it should be split in 2 sentences?
12:59:01 <gjanssens> in accounting, credit means affecting the right side of an account. It means a decrease of asset and expense accounts, or an increase of income, liability and equity accounts.
13:02:04 <gjanssens> Or ...right side of an account, which is an decrease for asset and expense accounts or an increase for income, liability and equity accounts.
13:02:46 <fell> "ledger sheet" [of an account]
13:03:49 <fell> ledger I associate with a book
13:04:30 <gjanssens> mikee: IANAA either, however I presume your English grammar is better than mine. Which formulation is most easily understood you think ? Or would you say it differently still ?
13:04:34 <warlord> I think GnuCash uses "ledger" and "journal" generally interchangably
13:05:19 <gjanssens> hey warlord also speaks English fluently :) How would you formulate this warlord ?
13:06:14 <fell> general ledger/journal
13:07:13 <fell> but journal should be daily ledger
13:07:36 <fell> general ledger is something different.
13:07:36 *** mlncn has quit IRC
13:08:09 <warlord> IANAA but I believe that gnucash mixes general ledger with general journal.
13:08:17 <warlord> I'm not sure what the "right" phrase is.
13:08:47 <mikee> gjanssens: I wouldn't make presumptions about my grammar :)
13:08:49 <fell> We had some confusion on gnucash-de when translating that.
13:09:11 <mikee> I've learned all my accounting from the GnuCash docs, so...
13:09:47 <gjanssens> Well I think all three are "right". I just got totally confused about the way it was formulated so I'm trying another way to say it that is less confusing
13:10:14 <gjanssens> Boy, what did I start :)
13:11:41 <gjanssens> Anyway I have to go for today
13:11:43 <fell> in accounting, credit means affecting the right side the ledger sheet of an account. This is associated with decreases in asset and expense, but increases of income, liability and equity accounts.
13:12:38 <gjanssens> Still has the same confusing part in "but increases..."
13:13:41 <gjanssens> To me that read "but it increases..." after which "of income" makes no sense and I have to restart until I figure out "increases" here is the plural of the noun "an increase"
13:13:54 <fell> Oh, cut wrong line.
13:14:29 <gjanssens> So perhaps just change that part to "...expense, or with increases in..."
13:15:08 *** mlncn has joined #gnucash
13:15:14 <fell> This is associated with a decrease of asset and expense accounts, or an increase of income, liability and equity accounts.
13:16:21 *** jralls has quit IRC
13:16:40 <gjanssens> Perfect fell, thanks
13:16:43 *** jralls has joined #gnucash
13:16:43 *** gncbot sets mode: +o jralls
13:16:49 <gjanssens> Really got to run now...
13:16:54 <gjanssens> See you all
13:17:00 *** gjanssens is now known as gjanssens_
13:23:34 *** mlncn has quit IRC
13:24:06 *** mlncn has joined #gnucash
13:38:55 <fell> pushed to maint.
13:39:19 *** floh1111 has quit IRC
13:46:58 *** mlncn has quit IRC
14:01:26 *** jralls has quit IRC
14:02:36 *** jralls has joined #gnucash
14:02:36 *** gncbot sets mode: +o jralls
14:21:37 *** pollo has joined #gnucash
14:22:04 <pollo> Heyp! I wanted to know if there is a portable version of GnuCash for Windows
14:22:51 <pollo> I plan to give a workshop in a university lab and if I can bypass asking them to reghost the lab it would be great
14:25:07 *** GabrieleV_ has joined #gnucash
14:25:38 <warlord> pollo: Not by us, but you could try over at portableapps
14:25:40 *** GabrieleV has quit IRC
14:25:41 *** GabrieleV_ is now known as GabrieleV
14:25:58 <pollo> warlod: it is safe?
14:27:02 <pollo> warlord: I come from a Linux background where packages are GPG signed. Downloading a .exe from a random website looks dangerous to me
14:32:24 <fell> pollo: you could download and run your virus scanner over it or upload to virustotal ...
14:35:21 <warlord> pollo: it's not our product so ... I dont know.
14:36:44 <pollo> well thanks. I think I'll bug the IT dep until they install it in the lab in question. Sounds safer
14:36:51 <pollo> keep up the good work!
14:36:53 *** pollo has left #gnucash
14:41:29 *** mlncn has joined #gnucash
14:54:59 *** jralls has quit IRC
14:55:36 *** jralls has joined #gnucash
14:55:37 *** gncbot sets mode: +o jralls
15:32:38 *** aqua___ has joined #gnucash
16:03:13 *** Daniel81 has joined #gnucash
16:05:48 <Daniel81> Hi, I have one question: my brother and I bought an office, both of us put 50% of the money, and he have an mortgage. How do I enter this in Gnucash?
16:08:30 *** Daniel81 has left #gnucash
16:08:41 *** Daniel81 has joined #gnucash
16:10:34 <warlord> Daniel81: A question back to you: how would you record it using pen&ink? If you tell me how you would do that I can tell you how to do that in GnuCash. But IANAA so cannot tell you the correct "accounting" way to do it.
16:16:25 <Daniel81> I havent done it in paper. I don't know what to do with the mortgage.
16:17:53 <Daniel81> should I enter the mortage as mine?
16:22:38 *** Daniel81 has left #gnucash
16:22:50 *** Daniel81 has joined #gnucash
16:23:29 <warlord> Is it yours?
16:23:56 <Daniel81> no, but i own some percentage of the office.
16:25:11 <warlord> Sure, and you should account for that. (The office would be an Asset, if you actually *own* it -- if you're just renting it then it's not)
16:35:56 <Daniel81> This is a better explanation: I did a downpayment of 5% of the value of the office. My brother paid the other 5%. He got a mortgage of 90%. We rent the office to someone else, I receive the monthly rent, and then I transfer the money (minus some operational charges) to his account so he can pay the mortgage.
16:46:04 <Daniel81> so I own the 5% of the value of the office, plus some money I earn from the rent. But how do I account for that?
16:46:29 <Daniel81> 50% of the mortgage's principal?
16:48:14 *** aqua___ has quit IRC
16:48:23 *** mlncn has joined #gnucash
16:53:35 <warlord> I need to think about that. Your name is on the deed, but not the mortgage per-se.
16:55:05 <warlord> You clearly have your 5% of equity in the space.
16:55:10 <warlord> That's defnitely an asset
16:55:13 <warlord> the rent is income.
16:55:27 <warlord> But I'm not sure how to account for the mortgage.
16:55:56 <warlord> Daniel81: I'm sorry. I recommend you email this query to the gnucash-user mailing list. There are more people there (some of them even accountants!) who can guide you.
16:56:09 <Daniel81> Thank you, i will.
16:57:21 <warlord> good luck
17:26:14 *** fell_ has joined #gnucash
17:26:15 *** gncbot sets mode: +o fell_
17:26:26 *** Daniel81 has quit IRC
17:29:33 * Simon finds it unusual that someone could own part of a mortgaged asset without also being liable for the mortgage debt
17:35:10 *** fell has quit IRC
17:38:56 *** linas_ has joined #gnucash
17:38:57 *** linas__ has quit IRC
18:20:56 *** jralls has quit IRC
18:21:48 *** jralls has joined #gnucash
18:21:48 *** gncbot sets mode: +o jralls
19:02:23 *** mlncn has quit IRC
19:07:51 *** jimvideo has quit IRC
19:08:44 *** jimvideo has joined #gnucash
19:21:01 *** mlncn has joined #gnucash
20:35:10 *** GabrieleV_ has joined #gnucash
20:35:10 *** GabrieleV has quit IRC
20:35:10 *** GabrieleV_ is now known as GabrieleV
20:36:07 *** jimvideo has quit IRC
21:09:29 *** fell_ is now known as fell
21:10:11 *** fell is now known as fell_afk
21:11:12 *** linas__ has joined #gnucash
21:11:12 *** linas_ has quit IRC
21:20:09 *** fell_afk has quit IRC
22:06:54 *** cigarshark has quit IRC
22:27:52 *** kpreid has left #gnucash
22:29:10 *** GabrieleV_ has joined #gnucash
22:29:16 *** GabrieleV has quit IRC
22:29:16 *** GabrieleV_ is now known as GabrieleV
23:24:21 *** fell_afk has joined #gnucash
23:24:21 *** gncbot sets mode: +o fell_afk
23:29:32 *** mlncn has quit IRC