2018-12-28 GnuCash IRC logs
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02:40:32 <chris> jralls anyone knows how to ping robert-fewell? some layout bug in the "new account creation wizard" - the "Category Description" should be multiline and is single line only and unusable
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03:18:14 <gjanssens> ,
03:18:14 <gncbot> gjanssens: Sent 5 hours and 46 minutes ago: <chris> jralls and fell - perhaps a simple Balance would be a simple wording. https://community.quickfile.co.uk/t/vat-rates-explained/8928
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03:42:21 <gjanssens> chris: "Balance" was my proposal as well
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08:56:39 <yyoshino> Hi, I have just updated gnucash-3.3.ja.po into TP, while still translating some other part. When is the deadline for 3.4? And, in TP, does the translation for 3.4 have to occur after it is released?
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09:18:52 <gjanssens> yyoshino: I got notification from the TP about your translation update. Thanks!
09:19:42 <gjanssens> TP will only provide a new template file after release of gnucash 3.4, so you can't do 3.4 translations yet via the TP
09:20:59 <gjanssens> However if you want you can generate a new translation template file from a git build and send your translations based on it directly to us - either in a pull request or attached to a bug report.
09:21:26 <gjanssens> I don't know what our current policy is on accepting submissions via a mail to the gnucash-devel mailing list.
09:22:19 <gjanssens> I guess it's not really recommended for two reasons:
09:22:46 <gjanssens> 1. as the mailing list is a text medium, your patch may end up mangled
09:23:17 <gjanssens> 2. it's much more difficult to track patches in the numerous other mails so they tend to get lost there
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09:42:08 <gjanssens> jralls: I'm currently revisiting gnc-filepath-utils.cpp
09:44:54 <gjanssens> Earlier in the 3.x stable series you applied a fix for https://bugs.gnucash.org/show_bug.cgi?id=795134
09:46:14 <gjanssens> Here's the fix to refresh memory: https://github.com/Gnucash/gnucash/commit/35cd165bec46743351978c47b2221b78e21039f7
09:46:40 <gjanssens> The gist of the fix consists of two parts:
09:47:04 <gjanssens> 1. all bfs::paths are created with a cvt as second argument.
09:47:32 <gjanssens> 2. Most but no all bfs::paths will at some point also be imbued with a locale having this same cvt
09:48:16 <gjanssens> I'm confused about why the second is not always done and can't reach a clear conclusion from reading the bfs docs
09:48:37 <gjanssens> Do you still remember why not all bfs::paths will be imbued ?
09:49:01 <gjanssens> I do understand the point 1., but point 2. is less clear
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10:52:34 <yyoshino> I have successfully built maint branch.
10:52:35 <yyoshino> https://wiki.gnucash.org/wiki/Translation#Get_a_fresh_template
10:52:38 <yyoshino> where 'make pot' fails...
10:52:39 <yyoshino> > make: *** No rule to make target 'pot'. Stop.
10:52:41 <yyoshino> What is the current way to update pot file?
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11:39:20 <jralls> yyoshino: make (actually ninja) pot worked for me just now. Did you perchance try to run it in the po directory?
11:44:42 <jralls> yyoshino: WRT to your question about submitting a 3.4 translation ahead of the release, please check with Benno Schulenberg (coordinator@translationproject.org) about the best way to do it. We don't want to mess him up.
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11:46:09 <jralls> yyoshino: To make the 3.4 release I'll need the translation by 0500 Sunday Japan time.
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11:50:42 <jralls> yyoshino: On the topic of documentation, do you think that you could have a look at the Japanese Tutorial and Concept Guide? https://github.com/Gnucash/gnucash-docs/tree/maint/guide/ja hasn't had an update since it was first contributed in 2010.
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12:06:47 <gjanssens> jralls: fyi I'm adding code in gnc-filepath-utils to do a GNC_CONFIG_HOME initialization and setup similar to the GNC_DATA_HOME initialization and setup
12:07:21 <gjanssens> That will allow users to customize the location of either with environment variables GNC_CONFIG_HOME and GNC_DATA_HOME respectively
12:08:08 <gjanssens> Then it occurred to me you have set up some kind of override for XDG_CONFIG_HOME in the environment file
12:08:22 <gjanssens> Have you ever tested whether that works ?
12:09:14 <jralls> Of course. It's there because Gtk isn't going to look for gtk.css in GNC_CONFIG_HOME.
12:09:48 <gjanssens> Oh right, that part is only for gtk
12:10:00 <jralls> I put it in before you wrote the special load of gtk-3.0.css in GNC_CONFIG_HOME.
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12:11:30 <gjanssens> Which is a relief. For a moment I thought my GNC_CONFIG_HOME changes wouldn't work for users on MacOS due to this XDG_CONFIG_HOME
12:11:36 <gjanssens> But that's fine then.
12:11:53 <gjanssens> Any idea on the imbue question I asked earlier today ?
12:13:50 <jralls> Oh, right, I got distracted by yyoshino. Memory is hazy.
12:14:07 <gjanssens> Np
12:16:57 <gjanssens> I've been conservative anyway and kept the imbues in place
12:20:21 <jralls> The only place that I see the imbue missing is in migrate_gnc_datahome.
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12:25:46 <gjanssens> jralls: and we never set it on paths created from some base path
12:26:15 <gjanssens> Probably in that case the base path's imbued locale and cvt is copied
12:26:22 <jralls> Yes.
12:27:48 <gjanssens> Do I get it right that when creating a path with a cvt that cvt is only used to create the path and not saved to the internally stored locale ?
12:28:14 <gjanssens> So that would make it a one-shot kind of cvt conversion specifier
12:29:33 <jralls> And an imbue isn't need for the src in migrate_gnc_datahome because it's never passed back to glib, it's just passed to bfs::recursive_directory_iterator in copy_recursive.
12:30:59 <jralls> Right. The cvt transcodes the supplied string to bfs's internal representation; imbuing a locale sets the charset for converting the internal representation back to a string.
12:31:23 <gjanssens> Oh that makes sense.
12:32:02 <gjanssens> I think I'll make a note at the top of the source file in case our memories get even more hazy in the future.
12:32:08 <gjanssens> Thanks
12:32:42 <jralls> It's all built on IOStreams, so see "The C++ Standard Library" chapters 15 & 16.
12:37:52 <gjanssens> Right
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13:36:53 <gjanssens> jralls: IIUC the mac bundle is being built with gtk 3.24 these days. Does that mean this bug can be closed: https://bugs.gnucash.org/show_bug.cgi?id=795029
13:38:32 <jralls> Well, we could close it as "Not GnuCash" since it's a Gtk bug. It affects all OSes and distros that use Gtk < 3.22.
13:43:24 <gjanssens> Oh right.
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13:50:24 <gjanssens> I think I'll just do that.
13:52:35 <gjanssens> Especially as gnucash on Windows is also 3.22+
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15:23:55 <gjanssens> Hmm, I have just experienced the same warnings as in https://bugs.gnucash.org/show_bug.cgi?id=795029 again with gtk 3.24 on Fedora 29 :(
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15:29:41 <gjanssens> It's still a bug in gtk and not gnucash so I'll just leave the bug as resolved.
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16:09:26 <jralls> Hmm, I searched gtk's issues for the "negative dimensions" warning and came up with only https://gitlab.gnome.org/GNOME/gtk/issues/746, which the reporter said was just MacOS HiDPI.
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16:11:31 <jralls> Maybe I should dig into it some more and write a new issue.
16:16:14 <gjanssens> Ok
16:16:36 <gjanssens> Time to leave for the night.
16:16:48 <gjanssens> TTYL!
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16:16:58 <jralls> Goodnight!
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17:58:24 <yyoshino> make pot succeeded (I had run it outside the git working directory.)
18:01:28 <yyoshino> I would like to translate strings in 52380d11d277cbb96b88665e5f6e3cdfe199eddb toolbar buttons before 3.4 release...
18:04:14 <jralls> yyoshino: That would be nice. I don't see any reason you couldn't upload a tarball with those changes to the Translation Project, but you should check with Benno first.
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18:09:50 <yyoshino> another project like libreoffice starts translating it after its first release candidate
18:12:13 <jralls> yyoshino: I'm only concerned about the Translation Project. If they weren't involved I'd be perfectly happy for you to push translation changes directly to git every day. That's pretty much how fell and Mechtilde work.
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18:13:16 <jralls> yyoshino: But the TP's work flow is centered around release tarballs, so they're always 1 release behind.
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18:23:47 <yyoshino> I see
18:25:28 <yyoshino> Yes gnucash-docs translation should be updated. I intend to do it for 3.5 or some when I have time
18:27:21 <jralls> Super. It will take some time to do all of it. You needn't do it all at once, we can take a chapter or even a section at a time.
18:28:12 <fell> or a commit fixing links and so on
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18:45:51 <fell> Sorry, I got distracted last night.
18:58:55 <yyoshino> not at all, I was in sleep then :)
19:06:35 <fell> chris, jralls: I use now "gross balance" for former Remittance and "net balance" instead of "bet income" . Is that OK for you?
19:07:18 <fell> net income - I a no gambler ;-)
19:08:39 <fell> I think, the income can be lower than the net balance.
19:09:39 <jralls> fell: OK with me.
19:12:18 <chris> fell i have a pending commit renaming Remittance->Balance... it's not an issue to me which words are used -- the main issue is that Gross/Net Balance has no particular global meaning, so, it must be explicitly defined in the report documentation somewhere.
19:13:37 <fell> Chris: The reason was, there might be costs not related to purchases.
19:13:54 <fell> reducing your income
19:14:12 <chris> hmm like depreciation?
19:15:12 <fell> yes. And I don't know, how wages behave in your report.
19:15:27 <chris> ah.
19:15:52 <fell> and other production costs
19:17:16 <chris> in my understanding, depreciation is not involved in vat/gst reports, nor wages. i don't employ staff so i cannot confirm it. the purpose is to satisfy requirements for UK VAT returns, or .au BAS (business activity statement) returns.
19:19:59 * chris never thought terminology would cause such an issue :-o
19:22:58 <chris> ultimately these numbers/columns are rather irrelevant... as a sole trader I choose to claim GST because an item bought for $1000+$100GST for private use sets me back $1100, whereas for business use sets me back $1000 * (1 - marginal-tax-rate) and I get the $100GST back -- if I'm a higher rate taxpayer the marginal-tax-rate is something like 33% so it's worth while claiming on business.
19:27:19 <chris> so, i agree the exact wording is rather irrelevant. A simple BAS report essentially needs only 3 numbers - gross sales, gross purchases, and gst difference; a simple UKVAT report needs about 5 - gross sales/purchases, vat difference, ec vat.
19:28:37 <chris> but instead of a minimal VAT/GST report with only 3-5 numbers I felt it would be more useful to show the actual source table. I do not know if the various columns really have a strict definition. maybe they don't
19:30:08 <fell> For this report it might not be relevant, but if other reports display other numbers for the same term, users would get confused.
19:32:33 <chris> ok... let's pick words from my payslip:
19:33:02 <chris> "Total Sales (incl GST", "GST-free sales", "Non-capital purchases", "GST on Sales", "GST on Purchases"
19:33:37 <chris> so from an .au perspective the terminology would be "Balance (incl GST)", "Balance (excl GST)"
19:34:03 <chris> or to make it global "Balance (incl tax)" / "Balance (excl tax)"
19:36:34 <chris> I believe UKVAT also use the words "Purchase"/"Sales" instead of income/costs
19:37:22 <fell> Yes purchase & sales are the base of VAT/GST
19:37:58 <chris> I believe the summed balance (excl tax) is then called EBIDTA, so, deprecation/taxes/amortization are excluded in the report.
19:39:03 <fell> In the rare case of a pure trader, it might be. In all other cases ???
19:39:21 <chris> so, income-gst-statement should really be fixed so that any reference to 'income' should be renamed 'sales', and 'expense'->'purchases'
19:39:53 <chris> well for a more complex organisation i actually don't know. all i know is they wouldn't use gnucash :-o
19:41:20 <fell> I know many service providers using gnucash.
19:43:29 <chris> i think we should ask them
20:02:50 <fell> I just went through the options and would not select the work cost group for this report. So the net balance is much higher than my profit.
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20:28:08 <fell> gnucash/gnome/gnc-split-reg2.c:921: Warnung: »msgid« ist leer. Dies ist für GNU gettext reserviert:
20:28:25 <fell> I will try to fix it
20:28:59 <chris> fell you didn't completely fix terms - there's saved options to consider
20:29:33 <fell> where, chrus?
20:29:40 <fell> where, chris?
20:30:04 <chris> i'll can rebase my PR to fix this
20:30:16 <fell> OK
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20:42:37 <chris> check the [income-gst-statement] commit on https://github.com/Gnucash/gnucash/pull/445 -- tbh if we're being completely strict, income->sales and expense->purchases must be done?
20:44:30 <fell> If you like, you can rename it to something with "Sales tax" instead of income
20:44:37 <chris> nooooo
20:45:22 <fell> there is no income in the report. :-(
20:45:34 <chris> there's in the options
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20:53:17 <chris> ok i've repushed - recheck #445
20:53:26 <chris> feel free to cherry pick if you're happy with it
20:57:07 <fell> you are right, i looked only for the words, which I had replaced.
20:57:09 <chris> btw the whole debate was useful - this report could really be renamed "Sales and VAT report" - it now seems VAT is the more general term
20:57:59 <fell> In EU & IN it is VAT
20:58:42 <chris> Indians use GST with multiple percentage tranches
21:00:28 <fell> right
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21:01:20 <fell> probably we should use "Sales tax" as general term.
21:09:42 <chris> btw fell you have some scheme skills, why not use them more often? :P
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21:26:16 <fell> ... and then the engine was frozen
21:30:04 <fell> 40 years ago I punched Fortran in cards, then saved asm on MCs and was finally happy to have with Emacs a full screen editor to write in Lisp.
21:32:09 <chris> time to revive these skills... guile has matured nicely in the past 10 years
21:32:21 <fell> But today my main target is to easen the work for translators and documenters.
21:36:38 <chris> ok good one... seriously https://github.com/Gnucash/gnucash/pull/445/commits/a1f1e14b11111aa7ecf6698318b1bc3883afe9f8 should be safe to cherry-pick
21:42:25 <fell> I am not Kali with 6 arms ;-)
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22:44:55 <fell> Chris commit a1f1e14 applied.
22:47:21 <fell> yyoshino, if you like, you can merge a fresh template again. That should obsolete a few strings.
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