2020-12-12 GnuCash IRC logs
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02:36:50 <giuseppef> @chris are you here?
02:36:50 <gncbot> giuseppef: Error: "chris" is not a valid command.
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05:11:42 <luigibagnato> may do aquestion?
05:12:25 <luigibagnato> I don't understand why in budget chart income are nagetives
05:12:50 <luigibagnato> thank you
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07:00:30 <guiu> Is it there a way to get a cash flow graph for a budget ? Meaning, the evolution of the available money through time using the budget expenses and incomes. I am reading the manual, but cannot find how to do that there.
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12:26:23 <AdrienM> luigibagnato, there is a bug or two filed on the budget module and the handling of signs. I think one of them has been addressed as of 4.2. Perhaps look over them in Bugzilla and see if that sheds light on the issue for you.
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12:32:59 <AdrienM> guiu, not simply, but it can be done. Run a Budget Report (Reports > Budget > Budget Report) and tweak your account selection as desired, then set the depth limit to "1". This will give you a simple table for each period. You can optionally show budget, actual, and difference columns. (as well as a total for all periods)
12:33:27 <AdrienM> Then export the result or copy/paste to a spreadsheet and generate a chart from the table.
12:38:23 <AdrienM> INFO
12:38:46 <AdrienM> oops.
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14:42:40 <bzbarsky> Hello, I am trying to follow the directions in https://www.gnucash.org/docs/v4/C/gnucash-guide/currency_manual.html for recording an exchange out of CAD into USD that resulted in a capital loss.
14:43:03 <bzbarsky> (because of the exchange rate moving between when I got the CAD and when I changed back into USD)
14:43:43 <bzbarsky> The directions in 12.2.4.2 say to enter the exchange rate with a "To Amount set to 0, but that doesn't seem to work, in that the change to the exchange rate is ignored if I do that
14:44:35 <bzbarsky> Am I just completely missing something?
14:45:10 <bzbarsky> One thing that was confusing for me in those directions, by the way was that it says that "Income:Investments:Currency Bank:Capital Gains" should be created in currency XXX
14:45:18 <bzbarsky> Whereas I would expect that to be USD....
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14:52:05 <bzbarsky> I can set up the "right" transaction by hand-editing the XML file, but that seems a bit dubious
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16:19:41 <fell> bzbarsky, can you file a bug [https://bugs.gnucash.org/buglist.cgi?component=Guide&list_id=10709&product=Documentation&resolution=---] 2different meanings of XXX in currency_manual?
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16:22:02 <jralls> bzbarsky, to answer your questions directly, the cap gains income account should be in your home currency. If that's USD then you're correct.
16:22:14 <fell> User-Defined Currencies is about “XXX (No currency)”, while in Tracking Currency Investments it means whatever you like.
16:26:44 <fell> The example is also funny: It is very hard to get ADFs today. ;-)
16:30:54 <fell> jralls, your opinion on PR 819?
16:32:11 <jralls> Not yet ready, but maybe I should just merge it and do the remaining fixups myself.
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16:32:53 <fell> I will now check the resulting pot
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16:33:44 <fell> At least CW diidn't kill himself by using git. ;-)
16:34:54 <jralls> That would be difficult.
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17:05:22 <bzbarsky> fell: What's the issue with XXX? I thought it meant "the other currency"?
17:05:43 <fell> B
17:06:02 <bzbarsky> jralls: Right, I used my capital gain account in USD, but I couldn't create a split with a 0 "to" value from the UI.....
17:06:40 <fell> But you and probably others confused it with “XXX (No currency)”
17:08:27 <jralls> I don't remember how to do that in a currency register, unfortunately. Plus the register behavior changes a bit depending on whether you're using trading accounts.
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17:13:44 <bzbarsky> really, I was using just cash accounts... I don't see a way to do a trading account that's just a currency either...
17:14:16 <fell> @tell chris: Did you forget date-utilities.scm? I still get there: warning: possibly unbound variable
17:14:16 <gncbot> fell: The operation succeeded.
17:14:42 <jralls> Huh? Trading accounts are always just one currency or commodity. Like everything else in accounting they travel in pairs.
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17:37:53 <chris> .
17:42:48 <chris> jralls: any views on reverse-chrono? being default? I am not a fan!
17:43:09 <chris> fell: date-utilities.scm you mean set-tm:date and friends? I haven't been able to reproduce it lately
17:44:15 <chris> jralls... https://git.savannah.gnu.org/cgit/guix.git/tree/gnu/packages/gnucash.scm
17:44:56 <jralls> chris, If it's industry-standard to have the most recent period first then I can't see any reason to do it differently.
17:46:01 <chris> ok then it's good to go
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17:53:16 <jralls> As for Guix, OK. Note that their Gwen and AQB packages are seriously out of date. As for stability of dependencies, I don't see anything in https://guix.gnu.org/manual/en/html_node/index.html to indicate that it's any different from any other distro package manager. You're completely at the distro's mercy about what versions you get.
17:55:02 <jralls> There is exactly one way to get dependency-version stability: Build *everything* yourself, with a config that you control.
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17:57:18 <bzbarsky> jralls: right, I mean a trading account for a currency is just defined interms of that currency, and doesn't afaict have the separate "price" and "shares" things that stock or mutual fund accounts do.....
17:57:37 <bzbarsky> jralls: Unless you are thinking about some account type I don't realize exists
17:59:30 <jralls> Actually all splits have the amount and value fields; price is the ratio of the two and isn't stored. The difference is that with STOCK and FUND account types the amount is accessed through the register and for all other types through the exchange-rate part of the Transfer Dialog.
18:01:05 <jralls> The Transfer Dialog seems to have grown some checks that prevent having a 0 amount and a non-zero value and that prevents creating a cap-gains split.
18:01:49 <chris> jralls: AFAIU with guix I can specify, as inputs, boost@1.23 if I find that 1.24 is buggy
18:06:48 <jralls> Maybe, but it's not documented.
18:08:30 <jralls> Of course one could build a complete set of packages oneself, just as I've done for macOS with jhbuild: https://gitlab.gnome.org/GNOME/gtk-osx + https://github.com/gnucash/gnucash-on-osx.
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18:11:48 <jralls> You could do the same on Gentoo with a private set of emerge (pronounced e-merge, it's the name of the Gentoo build system).
18:12:57 <chris> it means recompiling all
18:13:51 <jralls> Yes, that's my point. But you don't have to do it often.
18:14:28 <fell> I am just confused by "gnucash/import-export/aqb/gschemas/org.gnucash.dialogs.flicker.gschema.xml.in" should it be added in the PR to potfiles.in?
18:14:33 <jralls> And it's all controlled by a script that you can fire off and go do something else for a couple of hours while it grinds away.
18:15:33 <chris> guix's strength is it's functional ie from all dependencies, produce a binary output which is hashed and cached. because it's reproducible, the binaries can be cached. So, when I call 'guix install gnucash' it gets the pre-built binary from the build-farm
18:15:57 <jralls> fell, no. gschema files don't have translatable strings. But I thought that Bob-IT had gotten him to switch to using the state file? We only want Preferences in gsettings, not window/dialog state.
18:16:14 <jralls> chris, BS.
18:16:27 <chris> ok.
18:18:19 <jralls> That's not a strength and it's not what you said is does. If it's distributing precompiled binaries then it's no different from dnf or apt.
18:18:28 <jralls> And no more stable, either.
18:19:03 <fell> In dconf-editor I get description in German
18:20:16 <chris> Anyway the whole discussion about guix/docker/anything is about having a ready-to-use environment for starting building from a minimal linux install
18:21:38 <jralls> fell, OK, I didn't know about that. So I guess the schema files do need to included in pot. But unless there's something in the Preferences dialog that I missed we don't want this to use gsettings.
18:22:29 <jralls> Chris, apt-get install-deps gnucash or the dnf or yast equivalents gets you there.
18:23:03 <chris> But these pollute my current environment
18:23:20 <chris> is there anything like virtualenv?
18:24:10 <chris> fell: if you're seeing unbound-variable in trep-engine.scm can you please upload log to pastebin? I can't see these warnings anymore
18:24:15 <jralls> Not really.
18:24:49 <chris> fell: (I mean the whole build log, not only trep-engine)
18:25:24 <fell> chris, may be the PR was forked before your last change.
18:25:37 <chris> jralls: https://nixos.org/
18:26:15 <fell> When I tried to switch I cam along the gsettings anomaly, sorry.
18:26:18 <bzbarsky> jralls: ok, that all matches my understanding, including the checks keeping me from doing what the docs say to do. ;)
18:26:30 <bzbarsky> jralls: should I just file a bug on that?
18:26:31 <jralls> But your current environment has all that stuff anyway in order to run GnuCash. All you'd be adding with apt build-dep is the headers.
18:27:14 <jralls> bzbarsky If you don't find one in a search, sure. Be sure to look for closed ones and if you find one reopen it.
18:27:50 <bzbarsky> jralls: yep, will do
18:28:30 <fell> He removed barwidth and delay from org.gnucash.dialogs.flicker.gschema.xml.in, but the window params are still there.
18:29:13 <chris> There's another obscure dconf option - the PDF export filename format
18:29:17 <bzbarsky> jralls: btw, I will give https://bugs.gnucash.org/show_bug.cgi?id=798044#c7 shot asap; might not get to it today...
18:29:45 <jralls> OK, no rush.
18:30:05 <fell> Perhaps BobIT should review the whole gschemas as there are many similar.
18:30:24 <bzbarsky> jralls: So the point is I can just do it in a dir I create under $HOME or watever?
18:30:37 <jralls> Well, within limits. It would be nice to get it tested in time for the 4.3 release on the 27th.
18:30:39 <bzbarsky> jralls: By the way, I appreciate the quick turnaround on the fix there....
18:32:22 <jralls> That one was pretty easy. Do you see what I mean about the hot trace/hot func leading you astray? Especially hot func. It's often more important how often a func is called than how much time it takes.
18:33:04 <bzbarsky> jralls: getting high-level info out of a sampling profiler usually requires knowing something about the codebase. ;)
18:33:15 <bzbarsky> jralls: I'm just happy I could provide useful data
18:33:36 <jralls> ;) indeed!
18:33:40 <chris> fell: there are other format warnings that I intend to fix but I cannot get ninja to print these warnings anymore. If you do a clean build, and >log.txt and send to pastebin I'll have a few more work to do
18:38:10 <jralls> chris, https://github.com/NixOS/nixpkgs/tree/master/pkgs/applications/office/gnucash. It's all ready for you to start experimenting. But you still don't have much control over versions.
18:41:35 <jralls> And it builds from source on your machine by default: https://nixos.org/guides/how-nix-works.html#source-binary. But remember you don't need to do that often.
18:42:28 <chris> true same as guix. the build-farm only gets to work when the package is submitted and accepted into main guix repository.
18:44:19 <chris> nix is much more polished than guix
18:44:29 <jralls> Low bar. ;-)
18:46:19 <jralls> I wonder about compilers for nix and guix: If the build-farm is using a different version of gcc than on your local machine there will be trouble with boost, ICU, and googletest. C++ doesn't do binary compatibility the way C does.
18:46:58 <chris> aha
18:47:20 <chris> the gcc is compiled too from the gcc package
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18:48:12 <jralls> OK.
18:48:22 <chris> https://www.gnu.org/software/mes/
18:48:52 <chris> they're fanatics
18:49:56 <chris> I *think* nix also offers similar guarantees
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19:18:22 <jralls> chris, that's just the bootstrapping c compiler and scheme interpreter. It's used to bootstrap the guix OS installer, nothing to do with the package manager nor building actual code that runs once everything is installed.
19:26:55 <jralls> I think I saw something about a basic requirements package that one doesn't have to include in one's inputs list and that that had build tools like gcc, autoconf and friends, bash, and the like. But of course you don't have a consistent build environment if the compiler and standard libraries can change on you.
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19:29:53 <chris> jralls: maybe, I'm not too clever on all of it
19:29:57 <jralls> The flip side of that is that it's easy to fetishize build system consistency. I don't even remember the last time something besides guile broke GnuCash.
19:30:58 <chris> I thought icu did>
19:33:02 <jralls> Not quite. The problem is that ICU versions their shared library names so if you upgrade ICU you have to rebuild everything that depends on it. For us that's boost and webkit. Unfortunately the MinGW maintainers aren't very good about keeping those in sync.
19:34:14 <jralls> And now that they've dropped webkit and I'm packaging it when they upgrade ICU our windows build gets broken until I make a new webkit package.
19:35:41 <chris> on that note theres still no light html+js renderer other than webkit
19:36:06 <chris> and if i upgrade chartjs to 3.0 there's bound to be some breakage on webkit1
19:36:54 <jralls> Anyway, it occurs to me that now that dlopening is done mostly by guile modules and they use ltdl we might be able to build GC on a system with one installed by setting LTDL_LIBRARY_PATH in the build environment.
19:37:58 <jralls> As for chartjs, I wouldn't call anything that takes 2 hours to build on an 8-core Xeon "light". ;-) The real problem is that there's nothing besides webkit that comes with Gtk integration.
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19:53:23 <jralls> fell, back to pr819, are you OK with having the tooltip text only in dialog.ab.glade? He's removed them from gnc-flicker-gui.c.
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20:31:06 <chris> ltdl - i have no idea what this means
20:37:33 <jralls> It's the libtool dlopen function, see https://www.gnu.org/software/libtool/.
20:40:56 <jralls> So before you run cmake you'd "export LTDL_LIBRARY_PATH=`pwd`/lib:`pwd`/lib/gnucash" and maybe that would keep guile from loading the wrong libraries when it's building modules. But maybe I should try it first.
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23:50:23 <fell> jralls, because the tooltip is static, we moved it to glade.
23:57:05 <fell> Before I preferred to compose them, but then he dropped the 2. sentence.