accounting for stock trades
Derek Atkins
warlord@MIT.EDU
05 Jan 2003 15:14:54 -0500
I'm sorry you feel that way. I cannot think of any way of enforcing
this given the current architecture.
Indeed, I cannot even imagine an architecture that would make it easy
to enforce this requirement. The problem is that you are trying to
enforce some level of balance _ACROSS_ transactions, which doesn't
make any sense.
-derek
Herbert Thoma <tma@iis.fhg.de> writes:
> Derek Atkins schrieb:
> >
> > Herbert Thoma <tma@iis.fhg.de> writes:
> >
> > > Derek Atkins schrieb:
> > > >
> > > > Herbert Thoma <tma@iis.fhg.de> writes:
> > > >
> > > > > Unrealized gain/loss is no "real" money. But realized gain is actual
> > > > > income which I have to pay tax for, realized loss reduces my tax
> > > > > payment. So I have to account for realized gain/loss.
> > > >
> > > > Sure, but who claims you need to account for it _BY A SPLIT_?
> > >
> > > Because I want to see the income/expense in an income/expense account,
> > > don't I need a split for this?
> >
> > Why do you want to see the income/expense in an income/expense
> > account?
>
> Because all other types of income/expense show up in income/expense accounts.
> And I want to be able to categorize gain/loss through subaccounts, e.g.
> short term capital gain (there I have to pay tax for) and long term capital
> gain (no tax). Or may be one gain/loss account per stock.
>
> > If the gain/loss can still be displayed elsewhere through
> > other means, is it really that vital that it actually show up in a
> > real income/expense account?
>
> "elsewhere through other means" is a bad thing IMHO, you should do the same
> things using the same methods, as stated before capital gain is an income
> and should be treated like all other income.
>
> Herbert.
>
> > > > I have already explained how to account for it through other
> > > > mechanisms (i.e. LOTS).
> > >
> > > I don't know the internals of the engine very good. If the accounting
> > > of realized gain/loss shows up in income/expense accounts then
> > > erverything is allright. If not then someone has to modify
> > > the profit/loss report (and probably other reports, too).
> >
> > Well, yes... I think the trick would be to create some helper
> > functions to compute the realized gain/loss..
> >
> > > > > > > Right now (in GnuCash 1.6) I use a ugly workaround:
> > > > > > > In the stock register I "sell" a stock for the price I bought it,
> > > > > > > the actual amount goes to the cash account, the difference to
> > > > > > > capital_gain or capital_loss.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > This sounds like an ugly kludge; I'm not convinced it's what we want
> > > > > > in the long run.
> > > > >
> > > > > It _is_ a ugly kludge but I know of no better way. Any suggestions?
> > > >
> > > > Yes. See my other mail on this topic about LOTs.
> > >
> > > OK, I will wait until LOTs are fully functional ... ;-)
> > > BTW, when do you expect this to happen?
> >
> > Well, LOTs themselves are in the engine and are functional. What we
> > need is the UI hooks for the user to actually use lots automagically
> > and the helper functions to compute the gain/loss.
> >
> > > Herbert.
> >
> > -derek
> >
> > > > > > Question: how does quicken keep track of it?
> > > > >
> > > > > I don't know, I never used quicken.
> > > >
> > > > -derek
> > > >
> > > > > Herbert.
> > > > >
> > > > > > > Herbert.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > -derek
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Each transaction is balanced on each
> > > > > > > > individual purchase/sale. The lot balances when you sell all the
> > > > > > > > shares out of the lot.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > The balance of the lot is the sum of the AMOUNTS of the splits in the
> > > > > > > > lot. The gain/loss is the balance of the the VALUES of the splits in
> > > > > > > > the lot.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Ed
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > -derek
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Derek Atkins wrote:
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >Ed Warnicke <hagbard@physics.rutgers.edu> writes:
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >[snip]
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >>What would be the right way to account for this?
> > > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >Using LOTs (which are currently in development) to relate purchases to
> > > > > > > > > >sales.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >>Ed
> > > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >-derek
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > > > > > > gnucash-devel mailing list
> > > > > > > > > gnucash-devel@lists.gnucash.org
> > > > > > > > > https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-devel
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > --
> > > > > > > > Derek Atkins, SB '93 MIT EE, SM '95 MIT Media Laboratory
> > > > > > > > Member, MIT Student Information Processing Board (SIPB)
> > > > > > > > URL: http://web.mit.edu/warlord/ PP-ASEL-IA N1NWH
> > > > > > > > warlord@MIT.EDU PGP key available
> > > > > > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > > > > > gnucash-devel mailing list
> > > > > > > > gnucash-devel@lists.gnucash.org
> > > > > > > > https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-devel
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > --
> > > > > > > Herbert Thoma
> > > > > > > FhG-IIS A, Studio Department
> > > > > > > Am Weichselgarten 3, 91058 Erlangen, Germany
> > > > > > > Phone: +49-9131-776-323
> > > > > > > Fax: +49-9131-776-399
> > > > > > > email: tma@iis.fhg.de
> > > > > > > www: http://www.iis.fhg.de/
> > > > > >
> > > > > > --
> > > > > > Derek Atkins, SB '93 MIT EE, SM '95 MIT Media Laboratory
> > > > > > Member, MIT Student Information Processing Board (SIPB)
> > > > > > URL: http://web.mit.edu/warlord/ PP-ASEL-IA N1NWH
> > > > > > warlord@MIT.EDU PGP key available
> > > > >
> > > > > --
> > > > > Herbert Thoma
> > > > > FhG-IIS A, Studio Department
> > > > > Am Weichselgarten 3, 91058 Erlangen, Germany
> > > > > Phone: +49-9131-776-323
> > > > > Fax: +49-9131-776-399
> > > > > email: tma@iis.fhg.de
> > > > > www: http://www.iis.fhg.de/
> > > >
> > > > --
> > > > Derek Atkins, SB '93 MIT EE, SM '95 MIT Media Laboratory
> > > > Member, MIT Student Information Processing Board (SIPB)
> > > > URL: http://web.mit.edu/warlord/ PP-ASEL-IA N1NWH
> > > > warlord@MIT.EDU PGP key available
> > >
> > > --
> > > Herbert Thoma
> > > FhG-IIS A, Studio Department
> > > Am Weichselgarten 3, 91058 Erlangen, Germany
> > > Phone: +49-9131-776-323
> > > Fax: +49-9131-776-399
> > > email: tma@iis.fhg.de
> > > www: http://www.iis.fhg.de/
> >
> > --
> > Derek Atkins, SB '93 MIT EE, SM '95 MIT Media Laboratory
> > Member, MIT Student Information Processing Board (SIPB)
> > URL: http://web.mit.edu/warlord/ PP-ASEL-IA N1NWH
> > warlord@MIT.EDU PGP key available
>
> --
> Herbert Thoma
> FhG-IIS A, Studio Department
> Am Weichselgarten 3, 91058 Erlangen, Germany
> Phone: +49-9131-776-323
> Fax: +49-9131-776-399
> email: tma@iis.fhg.de
> www: http://www.iis.fhg.de/
--
Derek Atkins, SB '93 MIT EE, SM '95 MIT Media Laboratory
Member, MIT Student Information Processing Board (SIPB)
URL: http://web.mit.edu/warlord/ PP-ASEL-IA N1NWH
warlord@MIT.EDU PGP key available