GNU/Cash for business

[Derek Atkins]

herman <herman at aerospacesoftware.com> writes:

> Thank you for the input. The trouble is that I do not know the GNU
> Cash code and do not know how it is supposed to work.  I am
> approaching it from a Quickbooks Pro user's point of view and the lack
> of documentation makes it very difficult to get things done.  So, I
> started to write down what I am doing, in order to
> a. Get the job done and
> b. Be able to repeat what I have done and
> c. Fix the problems encountered

Sure, but there is a difference between notes and a howto. ;)

> Your input below is most helpful.  I'll now sit and redo these actions
> to fix the howto.  The little bit that I have used the program
> convinced me that the database itself is stable and the program should
> be able to do what I need to do for a small business.  The problem is
> figuring out the 'recipe' for each typical business accounting action,
> so that I can use it quickly and easily and stop fighting the new
> paradigm.

Well, I never used Quickbooks, so it's not much of a paradigm
shift for me.  The lack of documentation is unfortunate, but there
has been nobody to write it.

One of the design goals was to allow different processes to
get to the same state, so you can reach an invoice from different
directions based on the way you think about the problem:

* you can search for the customer first, then list their invoices
* you can search for invoices by number
* you can search for invoices by company name

In other ways:

* you can create a new invoice and then select the customer
* you can search for a customer, view their invoices, then click "new invoice"

The whole idea was to allow different processes to co-exist.

> Derek Atkins wrote:
> 
> >Hi,
> >
> >You've got a number of incorrect statements in your guide.  I've
> >cc'd gnucash-devel so other people can see the answers.
> >
> >
> >>General
> >>GNU Cash is a wee bit buggy still, to put it mildly, but it actually
> >>works.  This howto describes common actions for business users and
> >>should get you going.
> >>
> >
> >Ok, how is it buggy?  Could you enumerate the bugs that you've found?
> >I think saying "GNU Cash is a wee bit buggy still, to put it mildly"
> >is being very insincere at best, especially without explaining what
> >you mean.  At worst it's being subjective, and how-to guides are not
> >supposed to be subjective.
> >
> I try to write in a lucid and lighthearted manner in order to keep
> things entertaining - not insincere - whoever reads my howto, probably
> already fought the program for a few hours and would be exasperated
> and in need of being cheered up.  The bugs that bothered me are
> explained below.  Most of those seem to be configuration issues, but
> may also be a typical problem with software, where the writer knows
> how something is supposed to work and consequently it works for him,
> while a clueless user who is stumbling around, causes things to go
> wrong, by doing things in a different order than the writer intended
> it to be done.  We call it the 'but it works for me' syndrome, since
> QA always manages to immediately break the stuff we give them, despite
> having used it ourselves for weeks on end in engineering, with no
> problems...

Listing the bugs in email to me is not sufficient to get them fixed,
and certainly wont help a new user work around the problems.  List
them in the howto, so that if a user encounters a bug they know that
it's a bug and not them.  It also helps them by helping them avoid the
known bugs.  Filing bug reports are also helpful.

> >Also, unless you envision this to be a part of a larger document you
> >should provide pointers to gnucash resources, how to find help, where
> >to ask questions, where to submit bug reports, etc.
> >
> 
> The GNU Cash mailing lists are off-line.  I wanted to subscribe and

They've been offline for under 24 hours.  They are still accepting
mail, just not sending it.  The archives are still up.  The web site
is still up.  CVS is still up.  Regardless, you should still list the
resources.

> get going that way, but had extreme difficulty finding out who to
> contact in order to 'join the club'.  So, I had to read the older

I dont know why -- the web site should be fairly straightforward
(www.gnucash.org).

> documentation, do some Googling and run experiments in order to get
> going.  Unfortunately, there is nothing within the Google search
> database yet, so creating my own howto guide is the only way to go.
> I'm not the best person to write this documentation, since I do not
> know the inner workings of the program, but at least it is a start,
> which will hopefully be useful to others and hopefully I will
> eventually understand the program properly.

Actually, having someone who doesn't know the program write
documentation is a GOOD thing, exactly because it helps the "works for
me" problem.  So long as the doc-writer is able to concicely explain
what needs to happen and how to reproduce a bug, it should help the
developer reproduce it and therefore fix it.

> >>Create an Invoice
> >>You can create an invoice but it doesn't look very good.  Also, the
> >>invoice may/may not show up in reports until some time has passed.  By
> >>the next day, all reports should be OK.  You may want to print a
> >>better looking invoice by some other means.
> >>
> >
> >I think that whether the invoice "looks good" is very subjective and
> >should not be part of a howto.  Personally, I think the invoices look
> > just fine (although there is the issue of bug #84707).
> 
> It may look reasonable on pre-printed stationery, but the way I have
> it configured, it is not useable - I can't mail it to a custiomer.  I
> have seen a post on the web that one can customize the invoice and add
> graphics to it, though I have not yet found out how to do that.  It
> certainly isn't documented anywhere that Google can find.  So, once I
> figured out a way to prepare a professional quality invoice that can
> be printed and mailed off, I'll describe how to do that.

Uhh, the gnucash style sheet interface is most certainly documented.
There is bug #84707 which does affect printing of invoices.
There is the hint of how to add your company name (File -> Properties)
which is probably NOT documented...  What else do you need?

> >Also, I don't
> >know what you mean about it not showing up in reports until some time
> >has passed.  The invoice should appear in all reports as soon as the
> >invoice is posted.  It's possible you may need to 'refresh' some of
> >the reports to get it to display, but it should be available
> >immediately.
> >
> This may have something to do with clicking Enter vs clicking Post, as
> you have described below - refresh did not help.  The actions required
> and what exactly happens when you do them are not documented anywhere
> that I could find, so I will use your info to try this again.

Ok.  

> >If you have found a way to create an invoice, post it, and NOT have it
> >show up immediately, then please file a bug report, but do not report
> >incorrect information in the howto.
> >
> >    * Click: Business, Customers, New Invoice
> >    * Type an Invoice number or leave it blank, to make GNU Cash make one up
> >    * Click: Select to select the customer to invoice
> >    * You can now create a New Customer if required, or type the
> >      Customer name and click Find
> >    * Select the Terms, type some Notes and click OK
> >    * Now you get an Edit Invoice dialogue
> >    * You can edit the invoice some more if required
> >    * Click the Enter button to record the invoice in Current
> >      Assets:Accounts Receivable
> >
> >This is incorect.  You want to click the "Post" button to record the
> >invoice in your Accounts Receivable account.  The "Enter" button just
> >records the current item (in lieu of tabbing off the end or hitting
> >the enter key).
> >
> Thanks, will try that

Ok

> >    * In this dialogue, the Print button remains greyed out, so you
> >      can't print the invoice from here.
> >
> >This is also incorrect.  As soon as you post the invoice the "Print"
> >button will become un-greyed and you can print immediately.  I have
> >just tested this to make sure it didn't get broken, and yes, this
> >works as it is supposed to, so you are providing incorrect
> >information.
> >
> OK, I'll try that

Ok.

> >>Print Invoice
> >>Once you have created the invoice, printing it is not obvious.  You
> >>cannot print from the New Invoice dialogue.  The way to print the
> >>invoice, is from the Process Payment dialogue:
> >>
> >
> >This is completely bogus.  Once you've posted the invoice the "Print"
> >button becomes active and you can print directly from the invoice
> >page.  I just tested this and it works fine, so you are either confused
> >or propagating incorrect information.
> >
> >    * Click: Business, Customers, Process Payment
> >    * Payment Information dialogue opens
> >    * Click: Select
> >    * Company Name, Contains: type company name in text box
> >    * Click: Find
> >    * You can now View/Edit Customer, See Jobs/Invoices or Process a Payment
> >    * Click: Customer's Invoices
> >    * Click: View/Edit Invoice
> >    * Now you can click the Print button
> >
> >None of this information is necessary.  As soon as you post the
> >invoice, you should be able to print it.  Similarly, you can shorten
> >this process by:
> >
> >    * click: Business -> Customers -> Find Invoice
> >    * select the invoice number
> >    * click Find
> >    * click on the invoice
> >    * click view/edit
> >    * click the print button
> >
> >However if you're already editing the invoice, you can just print
> >it as soon as you post it.  If you do not know the invoice number
> > then you can    * click Business -> Customers -> Find Invoice
> >    * Company Name contants: type in the company name
> >    * click find
> >    * select the invoice to print
> >    * click view/edit invoice
> >    * click the print button
> >
> I'll try that.  Last week, I floundered around for a couple of hours
> and eventually used Quickbooks.
> You'll be amazed at how stupid a user can be...

You're right, I am amazed sometimes.  But as I said, the business
features are designed to let you get to the same information from
multiple places, in multiple ways..  This allows users to think
about the process in different ways and still get the work done.

> >>Receive Payment
> >>The problem with receiving a payment is to figure out what to enter
> >>into the Post To text box:
> >>
> >
> >I don't understand this question.. The "post to" box should
> >automatically have your Accounts Receivable account listed.  At worst
> >you just need to select the proper A/R account is you have multiple
> >A/R accounts.  Do you, by chance, have multiple A/R accounts?  if so,
> >why?  You don't need multiple A/R accounts (and if you do, which one
> >you use should be directly obvious for each customer).
> >
> In my case, the 'Post To' field is empty and I had no way to figure
> out what to put into it - there is no help and no explanation in the
> default docs.  Simply inputting an account name failed.  Eventually, I
> copied and pasted the account name from the Edit Invoice dialogue into
> the Post To field - this problem had me floundering around and
> searching Google for a few hours.

HUH?  This always works fine for me.  The "Post To" combo-box should
default to the first A/R account.  Can you give me a step-by-step of
what you do to get it to be empty?

> >    * Click: Business, Customers, Process Payment
> >    * Payment Information dialogue opens
> >    * Click: Select
> >    * Company Name, Contains: type company name in text box
> >    * Click: Find
> >    * You can now View/Edit Customer, See Jobs/Invoices or Process a Payment
> >    * Click: Process Payment
> >    * Type the Amount into the amount box
> >    * In the Post To text box enter: Current Assets:Accounts Receivable
> >
> >This should be automatic -- it will choose the first A/R account it
> >finds.  It should only be an issue if you have multiple A/R accounts,
> >but really, you shouldn't ever have multiple A/R accounts!
> >
> I have only one accounts receivable.  The Post To field came up blank.

If the "accounts receivable" account actually of type A/Receivable?
in the Chart of Accounts, select your account and click "Edit".
What is the account type?

> >    * This account name is visible in the View Invoice dialogue in the
> >      Posted Account text box
> >    * In the Transfer Account text box, select Current Assets:Undeposited Funds CAD
> >    * Click: OK
> >
> >Well, the Transfer Account box should be whatever account you are
> >using to deposit the payment funds.  I'm not convinced that using an
> >account "Assets:Undeposited Funds CAD" is at all portable, but it's
> >certainly fine if that's what you use...  But you should mention what
> >account you want to use here.  Selecting the Transfer account is,
> >IMHO, harder than choosing the Post To account.
> >
> I don't quite understand this - I'll have to experiment some more with
> dummy invoices.

Well, I don't understand what you're saying either, because a) that's
not how it's supposed to work, and b) that's not how it works for me. ;)

> >
> >Anyways, I hope I've helped.
> >
> >-derek
> >
> >
> You certainly helped a lot, thanks!
> 
> Cheers,

-derek

-- 
       Derek Atkins, SB '93 MIT EE, SM '95 MIT Media Laboratory
       Member, MIT Student Information Processing Board  (SIPB)
       URL: http://web.mit.edu/warlord/    PP-ASEL-IA     N1NWH
       warlord at MIT.EDU                        PGP key available