Re(2): CuteCash, the GNUcash friendly fork - will it have true FUND ACCOUNTING module?

[Derek Atkins]

Hi,

at the end of this very long email you ask:

> SO, any ideas as to who or where we could point this idea toward?

My answer is: gnucash-devel.  You should keep all your responses on the
list.

As for your view about CuteCash v. GnuCash -- they are both based on the
same underlying technology, so it's certainly possible to make either
one work the way you want.

Good Luck,

-derek

"treasurer -tuswvt.org" <treasurer at tuswvt.org> writes:

> Thank-you for your email...
>
> FYI - History of this post...
> Just emailed this to the email address on web page, someone else posted
> this to where ever it ended up?
>
> MoneyCounts is a great fund accounting software that works better, even
> for personal accounting needs than GNUcash, or even Quicken (because it
> can also be used for non-profit fund accounting).  Per a conversation
> with the company that controls it now, two years ago, they didn't forsee
> any software updates to it at all going forward, and it is not even
> mentioned as a product on their site.  Too bad that the code for it does
> not have a GPL or LGPL license.
>
> To date, none of the geeks in the Free software world seems to
> understand non-profit or business enough to see that there are two
> different kinds of Accounting methods, that requires two different kinds
> of Accounting software approaches.  No geeks at MIT, Media Lab or anyone
> else, even OLPC folks missed this need for their 3rd world education
> efforts, where even schools in the highlands of Peru would need this
> type of accounting software...maybe because they are not exposed to the
> need, due to the road that they are traveling on, and that they never
> have it cross directly in their own path?
>
> Since CuteCash is being worked on, and GNUcash would be so hard to
> change to a true FUND ACCOUNTING software, (and I/we, in our small 100%
> volunteer chapter of TU that has a main focus as an environmental
> organization, no one in our group or national organization has any
> ability, really no one has a skill set to do this), ...then maybe
> someone else.  Like maybe a team funded by Google Summer of Code or
> other) will see the need for a GPL'd Fund Accounting software, and if
> possible "tweak" GNUcash to be able to do this (as it can not do it now
> and there is NO (ZERO) Free software FUND ACCOUNTING applications ...
> oops, except maybe one - as there is the very advanced OpenRDA or
> OpenXpert software (I think this is based on MySQL at this time) at:
> http://www.openrda.org
> http://www.openrda.org/open-source/open-source-open-to-better-software
> http://www.openrda.org/open-source/gnu-lgpl
> The problem with OpenRda Xpert - is that it is far too complex for the
> small fund accounting non-profit or school maybe, depending!  If it had
> a "lite" version that could be easy to install, and use, that could be
> then migrated to the other version, then that might be a good direction.
> However, it is not a lite version today.  There was something that they
> were working on toward this direction, but I have not seen it in two
> years... maybe a GUI change, but not a lite (MoneyCounts-like) version?
>
> Would be great if there were a simple to start with FUND accounting
> GNUcash variant, that could be then be migrated from, if the need due to
> growth were present -to be able to migrate then a more robust FUnd
> Accounting platform (like a OpenRDA like product, but with a much more
> friendly GUI again) -that could be easy to migrate to for more advanced
> an complicated non-profits, schools, etc.   Once a non-profit crosses
> the line to having employees, requiring MULTI-USER abilities that could
> be difficult with a GNUcash based software... and when this happens more
> than likely the organization then would be involved with more complex
> accounting having to do with UNRELATED BUSINESS INCOME - that is very
> complex to track, and when major universities deal with Unrelated
> Business Income, they often hire very expensive legal and/or accounting
> firms to help them with it. See:
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unrelated_Business_Income_Tax
> http://www.irs.gov/charities/article/0,,id=96106,00.html
>
> 3 sizes of non-profits (including schools).
> Small (mostly volunteer)
> Medium (might have some Unrelated Business Income to track)
> Large (employees and payroll taxes, more complex UBIT needs, multi-user)
>
> The benefit of a "FREE SOFTWARE" solution for non-profits, would be
> massive for all sizes of schools (developed country and "3rd world",
> non-profits of all types, governments, etc that must use Fund Accounting.
>
> Chances that we will see a GUNcash or CuteCash FUND ACCOUNTING variant
> is slim to none... as I see "GEEKS" more focused on other "fancy"
> projects in Free software vs the meat and potato computing needs of
> non-profits.
>
> PS- if a project were to develop, and service the needs of the small
> non-profits or schools world-wide, then they could move into the
> subscription tax services area for the larger non-profits and charge for
> support (meaning stuff like payroll tax tables and UBI fund accounting
> tax change updates, etc that a medium to larger fund accounting
> non-profit would need, and would expect to pay for).
>
> Oh - one good thing, is that you can use a fund accounting software
> easily for a FOR PROFIT company, or even for personal individual use.
> So, any software programming effort would cover two bases (vs the focus
> on programming for "for profit" where the software can not be used for
> non-profits that easily at all.
>
> Could there be a GPL business model in it all, YES (small fund
> accounting or normal accounting device that could be sold as supported
> hardware platform, or even the larger more complex non-profit or
> business that as the small non-profit or business "grew up" could
> provide other "support options" for a fee as needed (aka Red Hat or
> Intuit payroll tax table update types of support for their users).
>
> SO, any ideas as to who or where we could point this idea toward?
>
> On 01/12/2011 09:54 AM, Derek Atkins wrote:
>> "treasurer -tuswvt.org" <treasurer at tuswvt.org> writes:
>> 
>> [snip]
>>> Would be great if GNUcash or CuteCash fork, could do full fund accounting...
>>> AND as a bonus it would be if it could migrate accounts from MoneyCounts
>>> to this new GNUcash/Cute Cash fund accounting compatible software
>>> (MoneyCounts is a question right now due to risk of future
>>> non-development going on with that application that will leave it's
>>> users orphaned at some point in time in the future).
>> 
>> Sounds great!  I look forward to seeing your patches that implement it.
>> (This *IS* the -devel list, after all!)
>> 
>> -derek
>> 
>
>

-- 
       Derek Atkins, SB '93 MIT EE, SM '95 MIT Media Laboratory
       Member, MIT Student Information Processing Board  (SIPB)
       URL: http://web.mit.edu/warlord/    PP-ASEL-IA     N1NWH
       warlord at MIT.EDU                        PGP key available