[Bug 710873] New Tax Declaration Info Report - multi-national, multi-purpose (private, business, ...)

Carsten Rinke carsten.rinke at gmx.de
Sun Oct 27 04:40:08 EDT 2013

Hi Frank,

thanks for your comments. As I am not an accountant and also not 
familiar with business taxation there are a couple of questions to your 
comments - maybe even very basic ones.

First the most general question:
I am not sure if I should read a message like "this is not a good idea" 
from your comments, because it is colliding with other already ongoing work.
My general goal is to have a common framework for taxation that can be 
used for all (ok, let's say "most") tax countries and tax types. The 
setup shall be adjustable per country.
My hope is that the work already done for Germany can be combined/merged 
with this. I volunteer to do the merging but I probably need some help 
for that (once I have reached that point).

My question: Do you agree or disagree that my approach can also be used 
for your purposes?

Other questions and comments I have inserted below.


On 10/27/2013 01:49 AM, GnuCash (bugzilla.gnome.org) wrote:
> --- Comment #4 from Frank H. Ellenberger <frank.h.ellenberger at gmail.com> 2013-10-26 23:49:34 UTC ---
> Created an attachment (id=258194)
>   --> (https://bugzilla.gnome.org/attachment.cgi?id=258194)
> Approach to get a german income tax declaration
> Hi Carsten,
> a few notes:
> Comment #1:
>   1. should become part of file property, to get it persistent. Then a user with
> i.e. a business in DE and the home seat in BE could manage the sales tax (and
> business income tax)in her DE file and the personal income tax in a BE file.
Hm, not sure. Currently the concept as shown in the attached prototype 
should allow for tax IDs for different countries in the same book. Might 
be useful, if you have international business, so I vote for not fixing 
it to the file properties.
The final scheme report has to check, if the report covers more than one 
country, and act accordingly.
>   2. No:
>    a) it is not in Preferences, but in Edit and it edits the tax properties of
> the accounts in your current file.
Correct. Thanks for the hint and sorry for being unprecise here.
>    b) It is also used for sales taxes like in SKR04, so INCOME tax would be
> misleading.
This a comment that I do not understand.
I see sales tax as on of the tax types, so the can be covered with the 
given concept, so I do not really see what it is that is misleading here.
SKR04 seems to be a way of giving an identifier to certain business 
accounts. I tried to look it up in Wikipedia but that did not really 
take me far but I get the impression that this is specific for Germany 
and a few other countries.
Can you explain some more?
>   3. TXF is form oriented, but
>   a) The report is not.
As far as I found out TXF is a data format to transfer data between 
certain programs. It appears to me to be very specific and not related 
to the paper forms if you "read" TXF data. If it is form related, than 
the forms are needed for the given concept, TXF itself is not relevant 
for it (first step is only about data collection in a report, data 
transfer can be second stope afterwards).
By the way: The TXF related article in Wikipedia has been deleted 
("Article has no meaningful, substantive content").
>   b) the german UStVA was originally a proof on concept which became useful for
> german business users, but the de files need some rework to get it together
> with the income tax declaration ESt.
>   In 2008 I started an approach with the ESt2004 forms, but I got disrupted.
> Probably we can take the attachement as a starting point for a german ESt
> template.
> Eventually you should search the german mailing list for some discussions a few
> years ago leading to the german MWSt/VAT part in SKR04, electronic tax
> reporting with ElStEr/libGeier...
> There is also some background in http://wiki.gnucash.org/wiki/De/Projekte and
> http://wiki.gnucash.org/wiki/De/SKR04
This part brought me to the general question at the top of this mail.

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