price.date, transaction.post_date and neutral time

[Sébastien de Menten]

r/2012/2018/ (it was a typo)
My point is that a price entered via the price editor (manually) is handled
differently than a price generated via a transaction and may be (haven't
tested) different than a price downloaded via the Finance:Quote module.
And indeed, as the time component is meaningless (yet different in function
on the price creation method), it shouldn't be stored OR, if for legacy
reason it should be kept, it could at least be stored consistently (across
price creation method) using for instance the "neutral time" approach used
for the post_date.
If not, any extract of price data (direct SQL, XML, piecash, ...) is
complex to use.

On Feb 13, 2018 15:47, "Wm" <wm_o_o_o at yahoo.co.uk> wrote:

> On 13/02/2018 12:47, Sébastien de Menten wrote:
>
>> On Tue, Feb 13, 2018 at 6:32 AM, Wm via gnucash-devel <
>> gnucash-devel at gnucash.org> wrote:
>>
>> On 12/02/2018 21:00, Sébastien de Menten wrote:
>>>
>>> When I enter a new price for a given day for a security on the NASDAQ via
>>>> the price editor, it is stored in the date column the UTC time for that
>>>> day
>>>> at 00:00:00 local time (CET=Europe, not EST=New-York). Which is weird
>>>> because across timezone, the day of the price will be interpreted
>>>> differently.
>>>>
>>>>
>>> Are you entering the prices by hand ?
>>>
>>> indeed, "via the price editor" (source=user:price-editor in the prices
>>>
>> table)
>>
>
> OK, I'm not seeing the problem.  Isn't gnc behaving as expected ?
>
> But John R says "that's an absolute time anchored in the market's time
>>>
>>>> zone, not the user's. " which leaves me puzzled as for the example above
>>>> on
>>>> the NASDAQ it uses European time (i.e.my local time) not NASDAQ time.
>>>> But
>>>> maybe when using the Perl finance quote program, there is a more
>>>> complete
>>>> time information (incl the correct market timezone).
>>>>
>>>>
>>> If you are entering the prices yourself then it seems sensible to me the
>>> time is when you made the entry rather than the market's time.
>>>
>>> yes, indeed. John's comment made me doubt ...
>>>
>> if I use the price editor for today (source=user:price-editor), I get as
>> date 2012/02/12 23:00:00 (because I am in UTC+1)
>> if I edit a transaction for today on that commodity
>> (source=user:xfer-dialog), then I get as date 2012/02/13 10:59:00 (which
>> is
>>
>
> Oh, ffs.  Sebastien are you really entering prices from 5 years ago ???
> by hand ???
> and wondering about the fucking time ???
>
> I have respect for you.  Please have some respect for yourself and how
> other people regard you.
>
> the post_date of the transaction which uses GnuCash "neutral time" concept.
>> I haven't tried yet via the Finance:Quote as it doesn't install easily
>> under my setup (windows, non admin) but I would be curious to see what
>> ends
>> up in the date column in this case.
>>
>
> If I look at my raw xml file F::Q gives me
> ===
> <price:time>
>       <ts:date>2018-02-09 12:00:00 +0000</ts:date>
> </price:time>
> ===
> which is correct, does everyone get something different ?
>
> I say, if you are entering by hand it *should* be the entry time not the
> market time.
>
> Also, unless you have a special arrangement with a broker, most people
>>> don't get a market price, it will be a bit under or over so the market
>>> price is just for reference once you include tx costs, etc.
>>>
>>> Anyway, my question was to understand the reasons of the encoding of a
>>>
>>>> day/date as an instant/datetime, reasons that are still a bit obscure
>>>> (except legacy issue)
>>>>
>>>>
>>> For most purposes it shouldn't matter.  The prices db is independent of
>>> the actual transactions, it is used for working out the value of stuff
>>> and,
>>> as I am sure you are aware, the value of commodities changes every minute
>>> and second ... gnc is *never* going to keep up with that sort of price
>>> change.
>>>
>>> In retrospect it may be thought that the design mistake was including a
>>> time in the price db at all :)
>>>
>>
>>
>> That's exaclty my point ;-)
>>
>
> OK, Mr SdM are you saying the point is that there shouldn't be a time at
> all ?
>
> If so I think John said he'll get around to fixing that as and when.  I
> don't see the point in arguing about an hour or two 5 years ago which seems
> to be what you started :(
>
> --
> Wm
>
> _______________________________________________
> gnucash-devel mailing list
> gnucash-devel at gnucash.org
> https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-devel
>