Log of April 12, 2001 6PM EST meeting

[James LewisMoss]

18:12:28 <dave_p>	can we talk about a release schedule?
18:12:50 <rlb>	dave_p: that's the plan, though grib's stepped out for a bit -- should be back shortly.
18:12:59 <dave_p>	ok
18:16:58 <grib>	i'm back.
18:17:06 *	dres does the wave.
18:17:21 <grib>	ok, release schedule. 
18:17:36 <grib>	i'll start the bidding with tomorrow.  
18:18:04 <dres>	I don't think you have the time available to make tomorrow.
18:18:16 <dres>	:)
18:18:33 <rlb>	so what's still cooking?
18:18:41 <rlb>	i.e. how much work is still needed?
18:18:45 <dave_p>	in my todo list, the only things that are new features are gnome mdi and a gui for price quotes and gnome mdi is going in today. so i think it's reasonable to feature freeze early next week.
18:18:53 <dres>	new user crap.  i'd hoped to be done, but was wiped out the beginning of the week and didn't get much done.
18:19:09 <dres>	apologies.
18:19:17 <grib>	my guess is that the mdi stuff will need some work, but that can be mostly post-freeze. 
18:19:49 <dave_p>	i'd like to make a 1.5.5 release with gnome mdi this sunday.
18:19:50 <dres>	ah.  but this is just feature freeze?
18:20:04 <dave_p>	right, just feature freeze
18:20:09 <grib>	I'm a little concerned about the cosmetics of the guppi charts right now; we may need to add some more stuff to the charts API, which might or might not break a feature freeze. 
18:20:24 <grib>	otoh it may just mean rewriting the renderers a bit.
18:20:40 <rlb>	dave_p: I just got (yahoo-get-historical-quotes symbol start-year start-month start-day end-year end-month end-day) working (less than 50 lines of scheme code), though I'm not planning on doing anything more than adding it for people to play with right now.
18:21:24 <grib>	I am planning to work on check printing stuff next (unless I'm forgetting something); I think I can get something better than what we have now in a few days of hacking. 
18:21:36 <rlb>	(returns a list of vectors containing #(date open high low close volume))
18:23:15 <dave_p>	i guess we should decide what a feature freeze means. to me, it means no new dialogs, major functions, etc. but finishing/improving existing stuff doesn't count as a new feature to me.
18:23:59 <dres>	dave_p: that's my def. (assuming no new dialogs doesn't include cleaning up current ones possibly adding something for a current one)
18:24:13 <dave_p>	dres: agreed
18:24:17 <grib>	that sounds like a fine definition.  on the most recent todo list what's left that would require us to break that?
18:24:28 <grib>	sorry, you already said that.
18:24:37 <grib>	what about adding new reports?
18:24:52 <dres>	I would say that that is ok.
18:25:05 <dave_p>	i'm not planning on anything really fancy for a price quote gui. maybe even just a button to get the quotes with some progress.
18:25:16 <dres>	but we want to make sure not to install any ones we think are broken.
18:25:29 <dave_p>	we now have more reports than we even planned on, so i think we are good there.
18:25:31 <grib>	what's the deal with using the price db for the stock register and/or main window? 
18:25:36 <rlb>	dave_p: sounds good.  The historical quotes data points out how primitive the pricedb is right now.
18:26:12 <dave_p>	grib: stock registers use pricedb to show the current value in the summary bar. account trees need to be fixed wrt showing balances.
18:26:13 <rlb>	dave_p: i.e. #(date open high low close volume) would turn in to 4 quotes, and there would be no way to represent volume.
18:26:49 <grib>	dave_p : you might want to check that the summary bar still works as I sent it to you.  I did pretty limited testing of it.
18:27:08 <rlb>	dave_p: but for now, I'm tempted to leave it alone -- seems like there are more pressing things, and the longer we put this off, the greater chance we end up with a real DB that can make dealing with multiple fields, etc. and queries much eaiser.
18:27:53 <dres>	rlb: I'd agree.  what's there is functional.
18:28:01 <dave_p>	grib: ok
18:28:14 <rlb>	dave_p: I'm not even sure I know enought to say what I think is the "right structure" for a proper pricedb.
18:28:23 <rlb>	dave_p: i.e. what fields are "standard".
18:28:39 <dres>	rlb: isn't that the point of incremental development? :)
18:28:46 <rlb>	dres: yep.
18:28:56 <grib>	it might make sense to just say, yea, verily : 1.5.6 will be the feature freeze release, and it will happen a week from 1.5.5 ... is that enough to get in the price gui?
18:29:13 <dave_p>	grib: yes, i think so
18:29:19 <grib>	(note the use of the Linas V trademarked "yea verily")
18:29:46 <rlb>	dres: and deferring complicated "by hand" DB code in the hope of making it unnecessary always seems a good idea.
18:29:59 <dres>	rlb: no arguments from me.
18:30:20 <dres>	Verily: In very truth; beyond doubt or question; in fact; certainly.
18:30:23 <dres>	funny def
18:30:34 <grib>	so what does that mean for a projected release date?  1.5.6 would be 4/23; do we want to say 6/1 for the 1.6.0 release?
18:30:48 <dave_p>	ok, so once we get the feature freeze out, i propose we spend 1-2 weeks to make the first alpha release, say 1.5.95
18:31:44 <dres>	maybe one release per week after that?  Try to be standard on that?  And change to beta and final when it feels right?
18:33:44 <grib>	we should probably assign somebody to write some README files for red hat, suse, slackware, and mandrake to give them the low down on installation... i.e. an explicit list of what packages they need. 
18:33:53 <dave_p>	sounds good to me. i'll make a little schedule with some proposed dates. i'll include a final version, but only as a first cut.
18:34:06 <grib>	debian too, but that would be a 1-line readme :)
18:34:20 <dres>	debian-snob!
18:34:25 <grib>	damn right.
18:35:39 <grib>	so have we resolved the release schedule more or less?
18:35:59 <dave_p>	i think so, assumng 4 alpha/betas, that puts our release on june 3
18:36:07 <grib>	sounds fine to me. 
18:38:26 <dave_p>	grib: isn't there supposed to be a 'windows' menu for gnome mdi? i can't seem to switch between reports/account tree
18:38:57 <grib>	dave_p: I took it out because it doesn't really work right.  I can put it back.
18:39:08 <grib>	You must have your MDI mode set to 'modal'?
18:39:16 <grib>	you can change that in the Gnome control center.  
18:39:42 <grib>	we could also put a menu option for it in gnucash, but I didn't know if that was the right thing since it's in the gnome CC. 
18:41:04 <grib>	dave_p: the reason it doesn't work right is that the labels it puts on the menu don't get changed when the tab labels get changed.  it's a 3-liner to put it back
18:41:25 <dave_p>	hm, i changed it too notebook, but i don't get any tabs
18:41:37 <grib>	.. and I just remembered that I never got around to fixing the window title stuff. 
18:41:44 <grib>	dave_p: I think you may have to restart gnucash.
18:41:51 <dave_p>	right, i did
18:41:58 <grib>	hmmm... 
18:42:29 <grib>	look in ~/.gnome/GnuCash and see if there's anything relevant there. 
18:42:51 <grib>	yep, there is... it saves the MDI mode. 
18:43:07 <grib>	that says to me we need to put a menu in the file. 
18:43:13 <grib>	s/file/app
18:43:17 <dave_p>	also, i'm getting 'Unbound variable: format', from prefs.scm when i exit
18:43:32 -->	goonie (goonie@max1-p34.albury.NET.AU) has joined #gnucash
18:43:47 <grib>	must be a guile-1.3 thing.  try s/format/simple-format in the file.
18:45:48 <rlb>	dave_p: if you switch to simple-format, make sure it's using ~A and ~S only (note the caps too).
18:46:11 <dave_p>	what about '~S
18:46:22 <rlb>	everyone: we should prefer simple-format heavily when possible -- it should be much lighter than format.
18:46:44 <rlb>	dave_p: that's fine -- literal quote that's supposed to be there.
18:46:54 <grib>	dave_p: as a stopgap, you can go in by hand and change ~/.gnome/GnuCash to use mdi_mode=0 instead of whatever it is now.
18:47:08 <rlb>	i.e. '~S -> `foo
18:47:13 <dave_p>	yeah, i just figured that out
18:47:32 <dave_p>	the mdi_mode thing that is
18:49:45 <dave_p>	i'm still having a problem with simple-format. do we need a require somewhere?
18:50:25 <goonie>	dave_p: yep.  (require 'guile1.4) :-)
18:50:36 <rlb>	dave_p: crap.
18:50:38 <grib>	no, it's a guile builtin in 1.4, thought it was in 1.3
18:50:58 <dave_p>	nope
18:51:39 <grib>	dave_p: you might want to put this in at window-main.c:259: '  gnome_mdi_set_mode(retval->mdi, GNOME_MDI_NOTEBOOK); '
18:51:49 <grib>	just until we get the mode selector in there. 
18:52:04 <grib>	dave_p: about format, you can just (require 'format) at the top of the file, I think,
18:52:10 <rlb>	dave_p: how about we test for (defined? simple-format) and if not, (require 'format) (define simple-format format)
18:52:29 <rlb>	(in our compatibility code)
18:53:18 <dave_p>	ok, i'm trying the (require 'format) now
18:53:59 <dave_p>	do we have a place for compatibility code?
18:54:11 <rlb>	dave_p: bootstrap.scm.in has the "slib" checks...
18:54:19 <rlb>	dave_p: that's as good a place as any.

*** I DISCONNECTED HERE.  SO SOMETHING IS PROBABLY MISSING

19:02:01 <grib>	is there more stuff we need to talk about? 
19:02:45 <goonie>	grib: weren't we going to attempt to set requirements for a feature-freeze today?
19:02:59 <grib>	goonie: you missed that discussion :)
19:03:37 <grib>	dave_p hath decreed that 1.5.5 is released on easter, followed by 1.5.6 (the feature freeze release) a week later.
19:04:16 <goonie>	ok, that's cool.  What needs to be in that release that currently isn't?
19:04:34 <grib>	i think the big thing is the pricedb gui, which is almost ready to go.
19:04:44 <grib>	that and the gnome mdi patch which I sent today.
19:04:51 <dave_p>	a gui for online quotes. the other stuff is enhancements to existing things
19:04:51 <goonie>	cool.  what about book-closing?
19:05:02 <dave_p>	post 1.6
19:05:26 <dave_p>	dres: hierarchy export will get into the feature freeze, right?
19:07:30 <grib>	i hope that deafening silence doesn't mean 'no' :)
19:07:48 -->	cstim (chs@adsl-209-233-33-168.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net) has joined #gnucash
19:07:59 <goonie>	hi cstim.
19:08:04 <cstim>	hi
19:09:35 <goonie>	ok guys, is there anything else you need to bug me about (not that I'll be able to *do* anything much for the next few days).
19:09:47 <rlb>	goonie: nope, not me.
19:10:35 *	goonie is assuming that the deafening silence *does* mean "no" :)
19:10:43 <dres>	dave_p: yes.
19:11:10 <grib>	goonie: why will you be unable to do anything for the next few days?
19:11:12 <grib>	the holiday?
19:11:28 <grib>	(that's right, rlb told me)
19:12:09 *	dres is not around the next few days either (Friday -> Monday)
19:12:17 <goonie>	All right.  I'll check in here most days, but I won't be checking mail.
19:12:28 <goonie>	have a nice Easter guys.
19:12:31 <grib>	you too
19:12:34 <dres>	bye goonie
19:12:42 <--	goonie has quit ()
19:15:21 <grib>	ok, I have to go.  I'll be back in tomorrow.
19:15:27 <dres>	bye grib
19:15:38 ---	grib is now known as grib-away
19:15:38 <rlb>	me too
19:15:46 <dres>	bye rlb :)
19:15:47 ---	rlb is now known as rlb-away
19:15:49 <--	rlb-away has quit (I'm too lame to make a quit message)
19:16:50 <dres>	dave_p: exporting account heirarchy.  keep same guids?  I'm thinking yes, but thought I'd ask you.
19:16:50 *	cstim is eager to read the results from your today's meeting on the ML -- if somebody prepared minutes/schedules/todo-lists...

-- 
@James LewisMoss <dres@debian.org>      |  Blessed Be!
@    http://jimdres.home.mindspring.com |  Linux is kewl!
@"Argue for your limitations and sure enough, they're yours." Bach