Trouble With "Enter" vs. "Tab" (Again)

[David T.]

Dan--

Thanks for the pointer. I never noticed that preference before. That certainly changes things, and it is more logical from the point of view I was presenting. I'll have to see whether I like it better than what I had; for me, I'd probably prefer it to go to the next transaction, instead of the empty transaction at the end of the register. But I'll play around with this and see how I like it.

David



----- Original Message -----
From: Dan Black <dblists at livingwebservices.com>
To: David T. <sunfish62 at yahoo.com>
Cc: Peter Underwood <peterunderwood1 at gmail.com>; Graham P Davis <hacker at scarlet-jade.com>; "gnucash-user at gnucash.org" <gnucash-user at gnucash.org>
Sent: Tuesday, November 15, 2011 7:17 PM
Subject: Re: Trouble With "Enter" vs. "Tab" (Again)

David,
     Have you looked at the 'Enter' Moves to blank transaction option in 
the preferences.  This looks like it should close the transaction when 
Enter is pressed instead of keeping it open.

Dan


On 11/15/2011 08:45 PM, David T. wrote:
> Peter--
>
> I appreciate the explanation, but I respectfully disagree. I have yet to understand what purpose is served by having the enter key close the transaction while still keeping it open.To take your HTML example, it would be like sending the form information to the website, but keeping the form on screen.
>
> As for the whole "help with the project" thing, I stated before, and I state it again, https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=664054
>
> At this point, I can see that this is obviously a situation where I see the situation one way, and the rest of the realm sees it differently. That's fine. I just hope that the data entry note I suggested gets added to the documentation, so that the NEXT time I get caught by this, I'll have somewhere to refer for help.
>
> Thanks,
> David
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
>
> From: Peter Underwood<peterunderwood1 at gmail.com>
> To: Graham P Davis<hacker at scarlet-jade.com>
> Cc: gnucash-user at gnucash.org
> Sent: Tuesday, November 15, 2011 1:43 PM
> Subject: Re: Trouble With "Enter" vs. "Tab" (Again)
>
> David T
>
> If I may step outside GnuCash for a moment, perhaps the explanation of the
> reason for different uses for Tab and Enter.
>
> In any software development, if there is ANY differentiation required that
> can use different keys, why would the developer cut his options and use,
> say, a dialog box to ask which use you want to put the key to in that
> particular case? These keyboards didn't just happen - they were used over a
> long time and the forms we use now have been found useful by users.
>
> Next, consider some of that other software. In any word program, text
> editor etc wouldn't it be strange if I asked why the Tab and Enter keys
> couldn't do the same thing? Enter (the artisit formerly known as Return)
> evolved from the typerwriter "Carriage Return" lever which rolled the
> roller (and therefore paper) up so that the keys would hit a newline and
> then the lever continued to move to slide the carriage to the right causing
> the keys to hit the left end of the line. In programming terms, that would
> be called Newline = Carriage Return and Linefeed. A Tab key on both
> typewriter obviously would do something entirely different.
>
> OK now that you're sitting wondering what my point is, let's take an online
> form in a commonly used browser (take your pick). If I am typing a form
> with my address, email address etc, to move from one text box to the next,
> I can click or I can use tab. Some forms where the code writer hasn't
> bother to identify that an Enter has been pressed while a text box has
> focus will actually cause nothing to happen. However, the commonly accepted
> (by developers) and understood (by users who prefer to use keys rather than
> a mouse wherever possible) protocol is that tab moves from textbox to
> textbox and Enter submits the form. Try it for yourself with a simple
> log-in page: Type the username and, assuming you haven't got an automatic
> password entry, if you hit Tac (sometimes requiring more than once if there
> is a Help or other link) your cursor will be in the password box. But if
> instead you hit Enter, the Submit button will normally be "pressed" and you
> will get an error message that your Username and Password combination is
> incorrect, (Don't try that last one too many times in a row!)
>
> Now back to GnuCash. While I'm sure that many if not all of the developers
> have never even used a typewriter. But I'm sure that most, probably all
> have come from exactly that background of the Enter vs. Tab protocol which
> in simple terms says that if at the cursor there is possibility of
> inserting a tab, move to the next item which can take focus. Oh! Guess what
> - in most programming languages the order in which those objects accept the
> focus when the Tab key is pressed is called the "Tab Order".
>
> So in GnuCash, wherever there is a "next object in the tab order" and
> someone presses the Tab key, the program does just what it says - it moves
> to the next object - usually a box to enter data. It doesn't SUBMIT that
> data any more than tabbing from the Username box to the Password box
> submits the Username+blank Password combination. When in GnuCash the Enter
> key can be accepted by the program (there aren't many places that it
> can't), the "form" is submitted to the next action in the processing of the
> data - blank or not - and any calculations are done and remaining boxes
> filled by the program.
>
> So I'm sorry to say that, while you personally may find it annoying to have
> to remember, it would be considerably more annoying for anyone out here who
> is used to the action of the Tab key in almost all software.
>
> However, I wholeheartedly agree that including a reference or link to the
> erudite points at which using different keys to move from one box to
> another has different actions that might take rather longer to undo than
> others. On that note, the developers are always seeking additional
> volunteers to assist writing and updating help files. Perhaps that's an
> area you could assist in David?
>
> Peter
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