Transaction register question

[David Carlson]

On 8/17/2013 7:29 AM, Robert Kesterson wrote:
> Geert Janssens wrote:
>> Hi Robert,
>>
>> From your message I couldn't derive your motivation for downloading
>> and installing the beta version of GnuCash. If you didn't download it
>> to *experiment* with the new features or to do some beta testing, you
>> are probably better of reverting to the latest stable version, which
>> currently is 2.4.13.
>
> Hi, Geert and thanks for the info.  I was able to find the menu option
> open the accounts in the old register format.  I wish it would "stick"
> so I didn't have to do that every time I want to open it (though I did
> discover by that jumping to a transaction in a register opens it in
> the same style interface as the account you currently have open, or at
> least it seems to, so that's good).
>
> To answer your unstated question, the reason I run the beta version is
> twofold.  Number one, it is updated far more often than the stable
> version (yes, I know that's why they call it "stable").  And number
> two, I actually *am* looking for improvements in the user interface,
> among others.   As I mentioned, I run Gnucash on a Mac.  It doesn't
> really look right on a Mac.  For that matter, it doesn't really look
> right on Windows either.  The GUI looks OK on Linux because it matches
> the look and feel of other applications.  On Windows and Mac, it
> doesn't fit in with the rest of the platform.  (Bear in mind, I've
> used GnuCash for *years*, including at least a year on each of the
> three platforms I mention, so my opinion is not based on a cursory
> observation.  I don't use all the business or online features that are
> available, but I do use the general recording and reporting functions
> quite a lot.)
>
>> Assuming you are testing the beta, here is some background on the
>> double scrollbar. It has been introduced to work around a performance
>> problem in the new register interface. It is still under discussion
>> whether the improvement in performance is enough to justify the added
>> complexity. It may be reverted to a single scrollbar interface again,
>> provided another solution can be found to fix the performance.
> I guess I don't have large enough registers for the performance to be
> an issue.  But then I only have about three years worth of
> transactions in GnuCash at the moment.  But I do itemize and split
> every transaction, so it's a fair amount of data (a  bit over 6 MB in
> a SQLite database at the moment).  Previously, I had ten years worth
> of data in it, and still don't recall any performance issues.  I'm a
> developer myself, and I do tend to use machines with plenty of memory
> and processing power, so maybe I just don't notice?
>
> If the bottleneck has anything to do with the amount of data loaded,
> I'd look at changing from loading the entire database into memory vs
> using a database back end.  I'm sure that has already been discussed
> to death and I know there are reasons for the current paradigm, so I'm
> fine with leaving it at that. But the new register interface still
> needs work to be as usable as the old one.
>
> I know it's open source and I could actually contribute, but I simply
> have too many irons in the fire already.   In the interest of actually
> doing something useful, maybe I could offer some constructive
> observations about the new interface?  I would assume you're already
> aware of them, but just in case, here's what I've observed:
>
> 1.  I don't care for the dual scrollbars, but that may be just
> personal taste.  As others have said, GnuCash seems to be the only one
> doing that.  Maybe that makes it odd, maybe that makes it innovative. 
> I'm not sure.
>
> 2.  In the old interface, as I start typing a payee, autocomplete
> happens "in place", so I can hit tab and I'm ready to fill in the
> amount, with the complete payee and the target account already
> populated and the input focus already on the amount.   In the new
> register, autocomplete happens in a popup below the field, and hitting
> tab just moves my focus without selecting anything.  I have to first
> hit the down arrow to focus the list and select the item.  It would be
> nice if it would automatically keep the top match selected as I type
> so I could just hit tab and go on.
>
> 2a.  If I do hit the down arrow to select the first autocomplete and
> then hit tab, it fills in the most recent target account and amount,
> but doesn't move my input focus to the amount.  In fact, visibly, it
> doesn't indicate my input focus at all.  It's actually still in the
> payee field, but the whole row is highlighted and it's not at all
> obvious where the focus is.  If I hit tab a second time, I find myself
> in the target account column, then I have to tab two or three more
> times to get to the amount.   The added keystrokes and the uncertainty
> of where my focus is make it harder to use the new register.
>
> 2b.  Once I have entered the transaction in the new register, I hit
> return, expecting it to save the transaction and move to a new
> transaction line.  Instead, it just highlights the whole line and
> hides my input focus (which is actually still in the amount column). 
> To make it actually save the transaction, I have to use the arrow keys
> to move to another transaction, at which point it will pop up a dialog
> asking me if I want to save the transaction.  I know I could turn on
> the "remember and don't ask me again" option, but in the old register,
> I generally did not move off a transaction until I was done with it,
> so in the vast majority of cases, the answer to that dialog would have
> been either "cancel" or "discard changes".  Setting it to
> automatically save the changes without asking would likely cause more
> problems than it would solve, at least in my case.
>
> Lest I be thought a complainer who might be better off with a "pretty
> face" accounting program, let me also say that I have tried a number
> of different personal finance programs over time, and there's a reason
> I've stuck with Gnucash.  Despite my quibbles, it is a very solid
> program and the double entry approach is really good, and will point
> out errors that more "simplified" accounting programs would just sweep
> under the rug.  I really like it and recommend it.  I may gripe about
> it needing improvement, but those gripes only exist because I'm
> actually using it, and think that a great program could be made even
> better.
>
>
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Hi Robert, interested users and developers,

I think that development of register2 or some other replacement for the
current method of transaction entry is crucial to the continued success
of GnuCash.  That is not because the current register is 'bad', but
because emulation of the current register scheme places unnecessary
burdens on developers who seem to be trying to (sorry, folks) fit a
square peg in a rounds hole.

Generally, database interface programs use 'forms' to input data.  A
'form' can easily be designed to help the user complete his task
efficiently and go on to the next task.  When the 'form' is separated
from the 'table' that shows the register, it becomes possible to
optimize one without compromising the other.  That is one of the great
features of a database interface.

I think this issue needs more discussion and more alternative ideas
considered. 

I propose that the transaction editing be done in a 'form' that is
separate from the register window.  That allows the register performance
to be optimized separately from the editing process.

Thanks.

David C