GnuCash and Swedish accounting legislation

Sat Jan 23 05:38:47 EST 2016

On 23 January 2016 at 09:56, Colin Law <clanlaw at gmail.com> wrote:
> On 23 January 2016 at 09:46, Draug <draug at kolabnow.com> wrote:
>> I have come to realize that GnuCash can't be used according to the Swedish
>> Account Standards Boards interpretation of the Swedish accounting
>> legislation, which unfortunately forces me to use some proprietary
>> alternative that will increase my overhead expenses. Hopefully the lawmakers
>> will come to understand technology some day.
>
> I believe I remember some time ago a thread discussing this and it was
> decided that it would be worthwhile to have an option on creating an
> accounts file to say that modifications are not permitted (or
> something like that at least), in the hope this would meet the Swedish
> requirements.  I don't know whether a feature request was actually
> submitted.

Found it
http://gnucash.1415818.n4.nabble.com/Disable-editing-of-transactions-is-it-possible-td3222086.html

Colin

>
> Colin
>
>>
>>
>> On 01/20/2016 02:24 AM, David Carlson wrote:
>>>
>>> On 1/18/2016 10:40 PM, Draug wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Liz, Michael and Gordon,
>>>>
>>>> I fully understand why the law is vague, absurd and hard to interpret if
>>>> you have a background in IT. As Michael pointed out, the law should most
>>>> likely be interpreted as " "secure against alteration by an ordinary user
>>>> who lacks advanced software skills". I'm not defending the Swedish
>>>> legislation by any means.
>>>>
>>>> What Liz said about CDs is a good idea, but after looking through the
>>>> Swedish Account Standards Boards explanation of what "enduring" is, I'm not
>>>> so sure anymore. They state that the transaction must be "locked" right
>>>> after it has been recorded, and "locking" it every month, year or whatever
>>>> (with burning a CD for example) is not feasible as all records are
>>>> "preliminary" until they've been made enduring, and while the records are
>>>> preliminary - they are not recorded at all. In short: the moment I make a
>>>> payment, the transaction must be recorded and made enduring that day.
>>>>
>>>> I will contact the Swedish tax authority and ask them for a list of
>>>> software that meet the requirements of the Swedish legislation. I will also
>>>> try to get some more legal advice from a lawyer.
>>>>
>>>> On 01/19/2016 04:53 AM, GWB wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> Draug,
>>>>>
>>>>> To echo Liz and Michael, I would be fascinated to see the list of
>>>>> software that meets the requirements of the Swedish legislation from
>>>>> the Swedish tax authority itself.  Have you asked them for a list, and
>>>>> could you share that information with the gnucash mailing list? I
>>>>> could send them an email, but my Swedish is not that good.
>>>>>
>>>>> In any event, you might be able to describe to them what Liz has
>>>>> explained above (which seems brilliant), and ask them to consider the
>>>>> end of quarter (or month or year) CD as the enduring copy.  Or do a
>>>>> version of what investing firms do: produce a yearly enduring copy on
>>>>> CD, (report) and then produce quarterly revisions on CD.  The
>>>>> quarterly revisions would be nothing more than the GnuCash file report
>>>>> with whatever corrections and updates you entered in the the last 3
>>>>> months.  This gives auditors something to work with, an original and
>>>>> then corrected copies.
>>>>>
>>>>> Or, perhaps don't ask, and just do it.  They may tell you the old
>>>>> Prussian proverb applies, "What is not explicitly allowed is strictly
>>>>> forbidden".  You can then reply: "It is better to ask forgiveness than
>>>>> permission".  Or not; I have only worked slightly with US, UK, NZ and
>>>>> Caribbean accounts, and I'm not an accountant nor a lawyer. So check
>>>>> with a few of those who know your jurisdiction.
>>>>>
>>>>> Being a Swedish citizen, I think you would be entirely justified to
>>>>> ask the tax authority to supply you the software that meets their
>>>>> requirements for free.  You could also point out that you have made a
>>>>> signifigant investment of time in using GnuCash and other financial
>>>>> software which their legislation has rendered unusable.
>>>>>
>>>>> It sounds as if Sweden is trying to implement similar requirements as
>>>>> the Dodd Frank legislation in the United States.  That's too bad.  It
>>>>> just makes more work for honest people, and rewards those (sometimes
>>>>> less honest) types who can afford to spend money on superficial
>>>>> compliance that does little or nothing to improve transparency (and
>>>>> pretty much the same effect Liz describes with the Australian Taxation
>>>>> Office).
>>>>>
>>>>> Gordon
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Mon, Jan 18, 2016 at 2:46 PM, Liz <edodd at billiau.net> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Mon, 18 Jan 2016 21:26:48 +0100
>>>>>> Draug <draug at kolabnow.com> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I've replied with some more questions regarding where they draw the
>>>>>>> line, as I pointed out pretty much everything can be edited or redone
>>>>>>> if you want to. But it still seems I'm out of luck using GnuCash for
>>>>>>> my company. Is there anything I can do in GnuCash to satisfy the
>>>>>>> demands of the Swedish accounting legislation? Otherwise I might have
>>>>>>> to redo all my accounting in some other program..
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Every week, or other period, burn a copy of your data file(s) to a
>>>>>> CD-R.
>>>>>> Call the latest one your enduring copy.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Disclaimer: I live in Australia, and if someone makes a stupid law, we
>>>>>> work around it, because that is our culture. This contributes to the
>>>>>> most complex tax system devised as the ATO chases intelligent people
>>>>>> working out ways not to pay their share.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Liz
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>>>
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>>>>
>>>>
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>>>
>>> I have not seen in this thread any reference to the features that some
>>> professional programs have of defining various levels of access to records
>>> to various users which make it look like Data Entry Clerks are not allowed
>>> to do do anything dangerous, or revision tracking methods that appear to
>>> create an audit trail. These features create an illusion that those programs
>>> are "Secure".
>>>
>>> However, as Mike and others have pointed out, even these features can be
>>> circumvented by knowledgeable programmers/hackers/spies/governments.
>>>
>>> David C
>>> _______________________________________________
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>>
>>
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