Bank/CC to Expense, diff currencies

Derek Atkins derek at ihtfp.com
Wed Mar 29 09:37:14 EDT 2017 

Hi,

On Wed, March 29, 2017 9:29 am, Christoph R wrote:
> Apparently one cannot send attachments to the list.

You can send an *attachment*.  You cannot send an embedded image.

> Here is a link to the screenshots:
> https://www.dropbox.com/sh/q2wex56hud9p1nh/AACGcS9-euJaTR0n6dOvifvBa?dl=0
>
> Cheers,
> Christoph

-derek

>
>> Am 29.03.2017 um 14:29 schrieb Christoph R
>> <subscriptions+listen at rohland.net>:
>>
>> Oops, apparently the pictures are missing. Trying again
>>
>>
>>
>> Gruß,
>> Christoph
>>
>>> Am 29.03.2017 um 14:25 schrieb Christoph R
>>> <subscriptions+listen at rohland.net>:
>>>
>>> Hi Ken,
>>>
>>>
>>>> In the end; however, this is all a moot point as I have concluded that
>>>> except for the transfer of monies between balance sheet accounts, that
>>>> is bank a/c to bank a/c or bank a/c to CC account, GC is unable to
>>>> handle two currencies in the same transaction, such as the example
>>>> noted above.
>>>
>>> I am using multi-currency transactions with any kind of account. But I
>>> know that the interface might be confusing. It especially depends if
>>> you use trading accounts or not.
>>>
>>> If you are using the default setting without trading accounts you have
>>> to fill out all splits in the local currency. This means in the USD CC
>>> account the transaction looks like this:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> and in the Canadian espense account it looks like this:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> If you enable trading accounts gc does behave nearly as you expect:
>>> Every split has to be entered in the split currency and the transaction
>>> is shown the same way in both accounts:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> But in both cases gc will bring up the exchange rate window and you
>>> have to enter that in addition.
>>>
>>> HTH
>>>
>>> Cheers,
>>> Christoph
>>>
>>>> Am 27.03.2017 um 00:38 schrieb Ken Runge <kr at bell.net>:
>>>>
>>>> Thanks for your reply, I must admit after reading my previous late
>>>> night rant born out of frustration I am pleasantly surprised you
>>>> bothered. Also sorry for not replying earlier but ran into another
>>>> problem which would have nixed my using GC at all, but that has now
>>>> been resolved. So my reply to your reply much of it written last
>>>> week...
>>>>
>>>> _It sounds like you're not quite understanding the basics of
>>>> double-entry accounting. _Please excuse my trumpishness, but, after 25
>>>> years experience as the chief accountant in a multi-million dollar
>>>> social service agency with 500+ employees using and supervising an
>>>> accounting staff working with Microsoft Dynamics, which I initially
>>>> evaluated, purchased, installed and trained others to use, not to
>>>> mention instructing accounting at the local community college, I am
>>>> pretty sure I have the hang of that 'double-entry' thingy you
>>>> mentioned.
>>>>
>>>> My problem is not understanding the concepts of accounting but how to
>>>> implement those concepts with GU! This is, at its base, a technical
>>>> issue wherein I would like to understand the work flow (order of key
>>>> strokes if you will) of how to actually enter a multi-currency
>>>> transaction. What I am after is an efficient method to get the
>>>> following input starting with an entry from a Bank downloaded QFX
>>>> file.
>>>>
>>>> DB CND Expense $132.000
>>>> 	CR USD Credit Card Account $100.00
>>>>
>>>> In my dreams I would like to enter these two lines into, say the USD
>>>> CC register, which is designated USD while the Exp. account is
>>>> designated CDN and let the program fill in the blanks using the
>>>> Trading Accounts for USD & CND. What I find is happening is a
>>>> proliferation of unwanted 'out-of-balance' splits which I can't seem
>>>> to get rid off and which I think should not even appear except perhaps
>>>> if the entry, when finished, is not balanced. Of course, if the
>>>> Trading Account function worked as it should the transaction, in its
>>>> entirety, would never be out of balance. I think, or I thought at one
>>>> time, I can get the transaction to balance but the process is
>>>> difficult and cumbersome and frankly a pain-in-the-ass.
>>>>
>>>> _When I travel to a foreign country I just manually convert the
>>>> foreign transactions back into USD and use my USD Asset/Liability and
>>>> Expense accounts. _But, of course, your example is not multi-currency
>>>> but rather a 'back-of-an-envelope' example. If you had a actual EUR,
>>>> GBP or CND account so designated in GC then your calculations would
>>>> not work because you need to start with the non-USD amount as my
>>>> example above outlines. If you charge the converted USD amount to the
>>>> foreign currency account you would never be able to download and
>>>> reconcile that account because your bank statement would report GBP
>>>> 10.00 but your GC account would show something different. What I think
>>>> you maybe referring to is what happens when your USA bank does the
>>>> conversion for you and charges your USD account with the equivalent of
>>>> the foreign purchase. From GC's point of view this is not
>>>> multi-currency.
>>>>
>>>> In the end; however, this is all a moot point as I have concluded that
>>>> except for the transfer of monies between balance sheet accounts, that
>>>> is bank a/c to bank a/c or bank a/c to CC account, GC is unable to
>>>> handle two currencies in the same transaction, such as the example
>>>> noted above. Accordingly, I have created a parallel set of expense
>>>> accounts in USD and will record USD CC to USD exp. Still a major pain
>>>> for a program which purports to support multi-currency but one has to
>>>> work with what has available. Sure hope I don't open GBP or EUR bank
>>>> accounts in the future!  With some experimenting I have got an I/E
>>>> report to show what I am looking for.
>>>>
>>>> Thanks again for your interest.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On 3/22/17 1:08 P, 13:8, Derek Atkins wrote:
>>>>> Hi,
>>>>>
>>>>> Ken Runge<kr at bell.net>  writes:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Thanks for your input. Let me start by relating an experience from a
>>>>>> training
>>>>>> session I attended many years ago. At that event one of our group
>>>>>> (me) was
>>>>>> given a simple diagram and asked to describe it to the others of the
>>>>>> group
>>>>>> such that, unseen by them, they could draw it. It was a hopeless and
>>>>>> utter
>>>>>> failure! This is what is happening to me now. I simply have no idea
>>>>>> what you
>>>>>> are saying.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> "Transfer" referes to the "Transfer Account".  In a basic register
>>>>>> it's
>>>>>> the "other" account (to balance the transaction).  If you're in an
>>>>>> expanded transaction mode it referes to the account tied to the
>>>>>> specific
>>>>>> split on that line."
>>>>> It sounds like you're not quite understanding the basics of
>>>>> double-entry
>>>>> accounting.  Every balanced transaction must have at least two
>>>>> splits, a
>>>>> Debit and a Credit, which balance out.  It models moving money from
>>>>> one
>>>>> place to another, e.g. you buy $100 of groceries with your credit
>>>>> card,
>>>>> so you Credit your Liabilities:Credit Card account $100 and then
>>>>> Debit
>>>>> Expenses:Groceries that same $100.
>>>>>
>>>>> When you open an account register, you're tying all transactions back
>>>>> to
>>>>> that account.  It also hides the second split, since it can be mostly
>>>>> inferred from the primary.  So when you enter a transaction you're
>>>>> e.g. debiting the "register account" and then crediting the "Transfer
>>>>> Account", which is the *other* account in the second split of the
>>>>> transaction.
>>>>>
>>>>>> If I use the basic register and select the expense account and enter
>>>>>> CND
>>>>>> amount as a debit on the single line of the register, the expense
>>>>>> and USD cc
>>>>>> amounts are reversed.
>>>>> NOTE: It's possible this behavior has changed recently.  Historically
>>>>> the register shows you values in the current account currency.  I.e.,
>>>>> if
>>>>> you have a USD account open, then it will show you all values in USD.
>>>>> Then you need to use the exchange-rate dialog to convert that to any
>>>>> foreign currency amounts.  It's POSSIBLE that this changed, however.
>>>>> In
>>>>> basic mode it definitely shows values in the local account currency.
>>>>>
>>>>> What account register are you opening here?  Are you opening your USD
>>>>> CC
>>>>> account?  Or the CND Expense Account?  (Do I have that right -- you
>>>>> haven't been completely explicit about what you're opening/doing).
>>>>> The
>>>>> register would give you values in that currency and expect you to
>>>>> enter
>>>>> them in that currency.
>>>>>
>>>>> If the amounts are reversed then you're possibly entering them in the
>>>>> wrong columns.  Are you doing that?
>>>>>
>>>>>> Is there any reason not to just convert the expense into your local
>>>>>> currency?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> And just how do I do that?
>>>>> Simple math.
>>>>>
>>>>> When I travel to a foreign country I just manually convert the
>>>>> foreign
>>>>> transactions back into USD and use my USD Asset/Liability and Expense
>>>>> accounts.  So let's say I pay €100 for a hotel room.  I'd figure out
>>>>> exactly how much that is in USD (e.g. $125.34) and then I'd enter a
>>>>> transaction for that USD amount.  I'd notate the transaction to
>>>>> remind
>>>>> me it was €100, but all *numbers* are all in USD.
>>>>>
>>>>>> Thanks anyway
>>>>>>
>>>>
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-- 
       Derek Atkins                 617-623-3745
       derek at ihtfp.com             www.ihtfp.com
       Computer and Internet Security Consultant

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