[GNC] File Format Documentation (Bug 777893)

David T. sunfish62 at yahoo.com
Wed Aug 15 22:12:30 EDT 2018


I apologize.

I never meant to imply otherwise. Your statement sounded tentative, and I was seeking definitive confirmation. That’s all.

> On Aug 15, 2018, at 5:37 PM, Derek Atkins <derek at ihtfp.com> wrote:
> 
> I am a developer and Linux user.
> I have had to manually install the sqlite dbd.
> 
> -derek
> Sent using my mobile device. Please excuse any typos.
> On August 15, 2018 8:35:35 PM "David T." <sunfish62 at yahoo.com> wrote:
> 
>> Can a developer or linux user confirm this for me? I am neither.
>> 
>>> On Aug 15, 2018, at 5:33 PM, Derek Atkins <derek at ihtfp.com> wrote:
>>> 
>>> Depends on the platform.
>>> On Linux the sqlite dbd may not come installed.
>>> 
>>> -derek
>>> Sent using my mobile device. Please excuse any typos.
>>> On August 15, 2018 8:20:03 PM "David T." <sunfish62 at yahoo.com> wrote:
>>> 
>>>> Derek,
>>>> 
>>>> I understand the point, but my intention on this is to indicate that a user must separately install libdbi libraries in order to use MySQL and PostgreSQL. As I understand it (and from personal experience) I do not have to perform any additional driver installations when I choose either XML or SQLite. Your note that SQLite is also available in Windows makes it a clean sweep for availability by default.
>>>> 
>>>> David
>>>> 
>>>>> On Aug 15, 2018, at 11:27 AM, Derek Atkins <derek at ihtfp.com> wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>> SQLite uses libdbi, too.
>>>>> 
>>>>> -derek
>>>>> 
>>>>> On Wed, August 15, 2018 1:49 pm, David T. via gnucash-user wrote:
>>>>>> Here is a newer version of the table:
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Storage Comparison Table
>>>>>> 	XML	SQLite	MySQL	PostgreSQL
>>>>>> Installation	Default	Default	libdbi	libdbi
>>>>>> File extension	gnucash	gnucash	N/A	N/A
>>>>>> Additional software	None	None	MySQL	PostgreSQL
>>>>>> Additional expertise	None	None	DBMS	DBMS
>>>>>> Compression	Y	N	N	N
>>>>>> Save on command	Y	N	N	N
>>>>>> Save on commit	N	Y	Y	Y
>>>>>> Uses log files	Y	N	N	N
>>>>>> Multi-user	N	N	N	N
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> How does that seem?
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> On Aug 15, 2018, at 10:34 AM, Adrien Monteleone
>>>>>>> <adrien.monteleone at lusfiber.net> wrote:
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> On Aug 15, 2018, at 12:11 PM, David T. <sunfish62 at yahoo.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> On Aug 15, 2018, at 10:02 AM, Adrien Monteleone
>>>>>>>>> <adrien.monteleone at lusfiber.net> wrote:
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> But it’s not a ‘plain file’ as it is XML formatted. Someone expecting
>>>>>>>>> plain text and trying to view it is going to be met with tag soup
>>>>>>>>> they’ve never seen before and might very well not know how to read it.
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> Not to mention that it’s compressed.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> True, forgot about that. Certainly, they’ll see gibberish mostly.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> It also carries an .xml extension. So specifying the format is very
>>>>>>>>> specific and informative, even for users who aren’t familiar with XML.
>>>>>>>>> They’ll see in their file manager the extension, and/or the OS’s
>>>>>>>>> interpretation of the file type itself. (in this case both XML)
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> However, the file extension used is “gnucash” and not “xml”
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Facepalm. I forgot about that. (I honestly rarely even look at the
>>>>>>> location where it’s stored anyway) I’d suspect unless Win10 uses the
>>>>>>> file descriptor for file type instead of the extension as was the
>>>>>>> practice through at least Win7, then no, those users won’t see XML
>>>>>>> anywhere. (if the descriptor is set as XML that is)
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> So I just checked on both MacOS and Ubuntu, MacOS reports the ‘Kind’ as
>>>>>>> ‘Gnucash Document’ regardless if sqlite or xml, and at least with xml,
>>>>>>> Ubuntu reports the file type as ’spreadsheet’. (yes, it’s registered to
>>>>>>> open with GnuCash, but this was built from source, so perhaps the file
>>>>>>> type was not registered properly, repo versions may vary)
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> So I guess on that point I was way off.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> Perhaps the save process needs to be refactored to identify clearly and
>>>>>>>> separately the name of the data file AND its format?
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Since .gnucash is not really proprietary or somehow a special format
>>>>>>> from XML then I agree, the extension should be .xml.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Combine this with the fact that the sqlite version of the file ALSO uses
>>>>>>> the .gnucash extension can make for some confusion. At a glance, you
>>>>>>> can’t tell what the format is. You can’t even tell until you try to open
>>>>>>> it with something other than GnuCash. (or you notice that GnuCash
>>>>>>> doesn’t offer a Save option) The only reason I know which is which is I
>>>>>>> had to use filename.xml.gnucash to tell them apart. That’s a usability
>>>>>>> bug in my opinion. I don’t know how hard that is to change, but I’d
>>>>>>> support the move.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> On that note, the documentation somewhere (I suppose in the ‘file >
>>>>>>> save/save as’ section) should document that the extension is currently
>>>>>>> ‘.gnucash’. A new user shouldn’t have to go to a wiki or website FAQ
>>>>>>> after reading the documentation for something this basic.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Would it be out of order to include in your table that both use this
>>>>>>> extension? If you expand the table to show MySQL and Postgres, I suppose
>>>>>>> that row would have some other note since their data stores are very
>>>>>>> different than single files. (though in this case they might store it
>>>>>>> that way, I haven’t used either to know)
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Regards,
>>>>>>> Adrien
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> Knowing this might very well help them find their file if they know
>>>>>>>>> the format they are looking for.
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> But I do agree, the documentation should cover where files are stored.
>>>>>>>>> Ideally, this should be made part of the Help or Guide in the Getting
>>>>>>>>> Started section. It is certainly a common enough issue on the list.
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> Regards,
>>>>>>>>> Adrien
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> On Aug 15, 2018, at 10:24 AM, Christoph R
>>>>>>>>>> <subscriptions+listen at rohland.net> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> Hi David,
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> The default file storage format is XML
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> I would not call this “XML" but "plain file”. From a user perspective
>>>>>>>>>> it is not important in which internal format it is stored. But it
>>>>>>>>>> makes a big difference if it is a simple file created by Gnucash or
>>>>>>>>>> if Gnucash needs to connect to a DBMS.
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> And one of the biggest confusion for users on the mailing list is the
>>>>>>>>>> question: “Where is my data?”. Pointing out that all your accounts
>>>>>>>>>> and transactions are in a simple file might reduce that problem.
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> Cheers,
>>>>>>>>>> Christoph
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
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>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> --
>>>>>     Derek Atkins                 617-623-3745
>>>>>     derek at ihtfp.com             www.ihtfp.com
>>>>>     Computer and Internet Security Consultant
>>>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
> 
> 
> 



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