Subaccounts [WAS Re: Future allocated money vs Budgets]

Sun Jan 28 20:25:24 EST 2018

Agree with your other email! A program should entertain whatever users are requesting for better functionality. Of course, open source volunteer developers can't be expected to drop everything to implement "my awesome idea". Hence why I'm going to try to contibute (sigh, always need more time).

Template transactions (I'd probably call them "Triggerred transactions", but it doesn'tmatter) sound awesome. As someone else highlighted, there are implementation difficulties to consider, but I dont think that it would be too onerous.

In terms of spending from another account but recording against a sub-account, its easy:
Dr Exp whatever account
Cr Cash I pay for something awesome
Dr Parent account the amount I paid
Cr sub-account the amount I paid

This is (like all of our segregating money transactions) a virtual one, but it wont affect your reconciling (because as discussed previously we are reconciling by the parent and including sub-accounts).
Hmmm.... now that I re-read your email, I think you might have meant this already. Sorry!

Thanks and regards,
Matt

-------- Original message --------
From: Adrien Monteleone <adrien.monteleone at gmail.com>
Date: 28/1/18 15:33 (GMT+10:00)
To: GNU Cash User <gnucash-user at gnucash.org>
Subject: Re: Subaccounts [WAS Re: Future allocated money vs Budgets]

You can already use formulas in scheduled transactions, I just don’t think you can use a present GC register value as a variable. (such as x% of the balance of Assets:Checking) I could be wrong. It should be possible though to use the value of one split as a variable so some auto-allocation might be possible.

There’s also the issue with triggering the transaction based on an event other than a date stamp. (such as triggering after you post a credit to income or a debit to an checking account)

What we really need there isn’t so much a Scheduled Transaction but a Template Transaction. (that can retain formulas)

As for keeping accounts straight, if someone in the real world wants to spend money from a savings account by writing a check on their checking account - that’s physically impossible. (barring auto adjusting as overdraft protection) I don’t see why GnuCash should be any different. Trying to make that possible I think would lead to all sorts of confusion as to where money came from or where it should be. To help reduce the tendency to do so, I suggested splitting up the sub-accounts based on where you are most likely to draw funds from for those particular purposes. Otherwise, you’d have to do a transfer from say ‘Savings’ to ‘Checking’ in GnuCash first just like you would in the real world. But if you’re in the habit of spending from any ole’ source for any ole’ purpose then by all means, keep the sub-accounts separate, you’ll just have to include the transfer split in the expense transaction or else do a separate transfer transaction.

Regards,
Adrien

> On Jan 27, 2018, at 9:25 PM, Matt Graham <matt_graham2001 at hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> Nice! It seems like we are getting somewhere. I am convinced that the process we think of budgeting where we are saving up for something is really a case of segmenting money within a sub-account. And it looks like Gnucash is already happy with this kind of situation - with the include sub-accounts in the recociliation window.
>
> I'm going to try this out over the next week or so and then try to contriubute to the Tutorial and concepts guide on it. It can get pretty complicated (for beginners) when you segment the money in your savings acount, and then want to spend out of cash/checking etc. Is a pretty common thing that people want out of Gnucash.
>
> After trying it, I'll also be in a position to suggest any feature changes that would make it easier. Hinted already by others is the feature of "formula" based data entry - doing data entry a bit like a spreadsheet, where simple equations can be used often based on the values present in other accounts/transactions... I'll leave that for now and explore it in my next big discussion with you all!
>
> Thanks again - greatly appreciate your time,
> Matt
>
>
> -------- Original message --------
> From: Adrien Monteleone <adrien.monteleone at gmail.com <mailto:adrien.monteleone at gmail.com>>
> Date: 27/1/18 18:15 (GMT+10:00)
> To: GNU Cash User <gnucash-user at gnucash.org <mailto:gnucash-user at gnucash.org>>
> Subject: Re: Subaccounts [WAS Re: Future allocated money vs Budgets]
>
> That’s an interesting use of future dated transactions. Thanks!
>
>
> Regards,
> Adrien
>
> > On Jan 26, 2018, at 5:21 PM, Tommy Trussell <tommy.trussell at gmail.com <mailto:tommy.trussell at gmail.com>> wrote:
> >
> > I was following the budget discussion, and I decided to split my comment
> > into a different thread. I'm not responding to any particular comment, and
> > this isn't quite germane to budgeting.
> >
> > But I want to clear up a few misunderstandings I'm seeing folks express
> > about reconciling with sub-accounts. Subaccounts work very well, but they
> > do take a little maintenance.
> >
> > WHEN TO USE SUBACCOUNTS
> >
> > You can use subaccounts for several purposes, including budgeting, holding
> > onto money that isn't "yours" (a bond you're holding from a contractor for
> > successful completion of a project, for instance), identifying earmarked
> > funds, OR (as in the example below) simply stopping yourself from spending
> > down the account more than you'd like.
> >
> > (If folks have additional suggested uses for subaccounts, bring em on!)
> >
> > EXAMPLE: MINIMUM BALANCE VIEW
> >
> > Here's a real-world (well it's real in MY world) example -- avoiding
> > "minimum balance" fees. The bank name has been changed to protect the
> > bookkeeper. ;-)
> >
> > I have a checking account at BigBank.
> >
> > Assets:Current Assets:BigBank Checking
> >
> > The terms on that bank account say it doesn't cost me anything UNLESS the
> > balance drops below $2500, at which point I have to pay $8.50/month. (There
> > are some other miscellaneous fees, all higher when the balance goes low.)
> >
> > SO to help avoid the $8.50/month expense, I created a sub account:
> >
> > Assets:Current Assets:BigBank Checking:Minimum Balance
> >
> > Then I created a transaction dated 2/15/2015, transferring $2500 from the
> > account to its subaccount:
> >
> > (This is a representation of the BigBank Checking two-line auto-split
> > register. Items in the right column are "cr" and items in the left column
> > are "dr".)
> >
> >  2/15/2015 min Minimum Balance   2500.00cr
> >    Assets:Current Assets:BigBank Checking:Minimum Balance   $2500.00dr
> >    Assets:Current Assets:BigBank Checking   $2500.00cr
> >
> > When I reconciled my account the first time after creating this
> > transaction, I made sure to tick the "Include Subaccounts" checkbox on the
> > Reconcile Information dialog. I (as always) verified the ENDING balance
> > information exactly as it was shown on the bank's statement.
> >
> > Also that first time I reconciled, I noticed TWO items to clear that
> > weren't actually on the bank statement -- $2500 in the funds in side and
> > $2500 in the funds out side of the reconcile window. I marked them BOTH as
> > "cleared."
> >
> > From now on, I notice a few things have changed from before --
> >
> > o - My default balance when I reconcile AND the running balance in the
> > BigBank Checking register will always show $2500 lower than I actually
> > have.
> >
> > o - When I reconcile I always have to remember to override the default and
> > enter the ENDING balance as it is shown on BigBank's statement.
> >
> > o - When I reconcile the "Include Subaccounts" checkbox is ticked and it
> > needs to stay ticked. (It seems to "remember" the setting from session to
> > session, as you would hope.)
> >
> > o - I also notice when I'm reconciling that when I "jump" to a transaction
> > by double-clicking on an item in the funds in / funds out lists, the
> > transaction opens into a different kind of "general ledger" style register
> > that includes ALL transactions in the account and subaccounts. It exactly
> > resembles the kind of register that appears when you search for
> > transactions. It has a "plus" (+) mark in its tab and looks different from
> > the "ordinary" register.
> >
> >
> > Obviously at any time I can "overspend" and the primary account balance
> > will go negative, with either dire or negligible real-world repercussions.
> > But if I ignore the red (negative) balance numbers and keep the balances in
> > the red, I've eliminated the reason for having the subaccount in the first
> > place.
> >
> > I can raise or lower the minumum balance at any time by creating another
> > transaction between the account and subaccount.
> >
> >
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