[GNC] Reporting transactions

Christopher Lam christopher.lck at gmail.com
Fri May 1 06:59:37 EDT 2020 

IIUC the SIPP is simply a wrapper around stock-type and cash-type
investments, so, you'd handle it exactly the same as any Broker and Broker
investments.

See https://www.gnucash.org/docs/v3/C/gnucash-guide/invest-setup1.html -
the SIPP wrapper would be the "Brokerage Accounts" asset. You may choose to
record each stock fluctuation, or (my preference) trust the SIPP statements
instead.

Annually you'd print a Transaction Report from SIPP account. Or you can run
a cash flow report, originating from SIPP account and children.

On Fri, 1 May 2020 at 10:26, Ruaraidh Sackville Hamilton <
ruaraidh.sh at gmail.com> wrote:

> Yes sure that's one perspective and I agree with it, and that's why I have
> my SIPP in the same GC file as everything else. I was just noting that the
> way contributions are reported (i.e. as expenses eligible for tax rebates,
> not as income that is taxed) seems more in line with a
> different perspective, that the net worth of a SIPP is independent from
> personal net worth. Isn't a business's net worth different from personal
> net worth? Isn't it possible to view it both ways?
>
> Ignore me. I'm a novice to GnuCash and naive in economics. I just find it
> interesting, learning new concepts as part of learning GnuCash.
>
> On Fri, 1 May 2020 at 10:41, Christopher Lam <christopher.lck at gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>> I wouldn't classify sipp contributions as expense. You'd be incorrectly
>> reducing your net worth whenever you contribute to it.
>>
>> On Fri, 1 May 2020, 5:23 pm Ruaraidh Sackville Hamilton, <
>> ruaraidh.sh at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Ah yes you are right! I didn't think of the case where an employer pays
>>> directly into a SIPP. In that case it is clearly an income. Not in mine.
>>>
>>> Conceptually, it might be better thought of as a business expense. The
>>> business is the SIPP and the government encourages investment in the
>>> business by giving tax rebates on allowable business expenses. Payments
>>> into the SIPP are reported in the tax report as expenses rather than as
>>> income. And a SIPP is not like other assets: I can't sell it or trade it,
>>> and there are strict rules limiting when and how much income I can take
>>> from it in retirement. So maybe we should look at the SIPP as its own
>>> independent entity, with income to the SIPP being expenses to our other
>>> assets, just as reported in tax reports.
>>>
>>> But that seems a theoretical discussion, and we have a sort of pragmatic
>>> solution that works (even though I have to go outside of GnuCash to
>>> calculate what to put in the tax form)
>>>
>>> Thanks again for enlightening comments!
>>>
>>> On Thu, 30 Apr 2020 at 16:30, D. <sunfish62 at yahoo.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> > Ah, then yes it's a terminology thing. In my own case, money from my
>>> > income goes directly into the SIPP as a payroll deduction, so I just
>>> > transfer from income into the SIPP. It can just as easily go from an
>>> asset
>>> > to another asset.
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > -------- Original Message --------
>>> > From: Ruaraidh Sackville Hamilton <ruaraidh.sh at gmail.com>
>>> > Sent: Thu Apr 30 19:42:46 GMT+05:30 2020
>>> > To: "D." <sunfish62 at yahoo.com>
>>> > Cc: "D. via gnucash-user" <gnucash-user at gnucash.org>
>>> > Subject: Re: [GNC] Reporting transactions
>>> >
>>> > Sorry David, I didn't mean to imply I prefer the second to the first
>>> > option. I just thought it easier to show by editing one of your
>>> versions,
>>> > and happened to pick the second. I could as easily have picked the
>>> first.
>>> >
>>> > In my reply I replaced your "Income:Me" with "Assets:my bank account".
>>> The
>>> > point is that, when the SIPP is in the same GC file as my other
>>> assets, the
>>> > transaction is from one asset (the bank account I used to pay into the
>>> > SIPP) to another asset (my SIPP). It's not from an income account to
>>> the
>>> > SIPP, so it can't appear in a report of income.
>>> >
>>> > If I keep the SIPP in a separate dedicated GC file, then no problem: my
>>> > contribution appears in the main GC file as an expense against my bank
>>> > account and as an income in the SIPP GC file. I just wondered if there
>>> was
>>> > a way of keeping all assets in one file.
>>> >
>>> > Ruaraidh
>>> >
>>> > On Thu, 30 Apr 2020 at 14:41, D. <sunfish62 at yahoo.com> wrote:
>>> >
>>> > > ???
>>> > >
>>> > > Perhaps this is a terminology thing, but aren't you just
>>> re-presenting
>>> > the
>>> > > second option I gave originally?
>>> > >
>>> > > Think of it another way: there are two sources for the funding of
>>> your
>>> > > SIPP: your contribution, and the government's. How you handle your
>>> own
>>> > > contribution depends on your workflow; the government is giving you
>>> > money,
>>> > > so that's an income account. I offered two methods of recording that
>>> > > two-step; yours is a repetition of my second method.
>>> > >
>>> > > I personally use the first, since the two events are inextricably
>>> linked
>>> > > (the second never happens without the first).
>>> > >
>>> > > Or am I missing something?
>>> > >
>>> > > David
>>> > >
>>> > >
>>> > > -------- Original Message --------
>>> > > From: Ruaraidh Sackville Hamilton <ruaraidh.sh at gmail.com>
>>> > > Sent: Thu Apr 30 17:20:34 GMT+05:30 2020
>>> > > To: "D." <sunfish62 at yahoo.com>
>>> > > Cc: Gnucash Users <gnucash-user at gnucash.org>
>>> > > Subject: Re: [GNC] Reporting transactions
>>> > >
>>> > > That covers it if the SIPP is in a separate GC file of its own,
>>> where my
>>> > > contribution is an income (and an expense from my bank account in the
>>> > main
>>> > > GC file, which I use to fund the contribution).
>>> > >
>>> > > But if it's all in one GC file we have
>>> > >
>>> > > 01-01-2020 SIPP Contribution   Assets:SIPP  £100
>>> > > My contribution          Assets:my bank account          £100
>>> > >
>>> > > 01-01-2020 SIPP Govt Contribution   Assets:SIPP  £25
>>> > > Government contribution Income:GovContrib £25
>>> > >
>>> > > Am I wrong?
>>> > >
>>> > > Ruaraidh
>>> > >
>>> > > On Thu, 30 Apr 2020 at 12:33, D. <sunfish62 at yahoo.com> wrote:
>>> > >
>>> > > > Set up an independent income account for the government
>>> contributions:
>>> > > >
>>> > > > Income:GovContrib
>>> > > >
>>> > > > Then add either a split to your contribution for the government,
>>> > > >
>>> > > > 01-01-2020 SIPP Contribution   Assets:SIPP  £125
>>> > > > My contribution          Income:Me          £100
>>> > > > Government contribution Income:GovContrib £25
>>> > > >
>>> > > > or a separate transaction,
>>> > > >
>>> > > > 01-01-2020 SIPP Contribution   Assets:SIPP  £100
>>> > > > My contribution          Income:Me          £100
>>> > > >
>>> > > > 01-01-2020 SIPP Govt Contribution   Assets:SIPP  £25
>>> > > > Government contribution Income:GovContrib £25
>>> > > >
>>> > > > That should cover it, yes?
>>> > > >
>>> > > >
>>> > > >
>>> > > >
>>> > > > -------- Original Message --------
>>> > > > From: Ruaraidh <ruaraidh.sh at gmail.com>
>>> > > > Sent: Thu Apr 30 15:17:04 GMT+05:30 2020
>>> > > > To: gnucash-user at gnucash.org
>>> > > > Subject: [GNC] Reporting transactions
>>> > > >
>>> > > > I have another question related to UK tax reporting obligations.
>>> > > >
>>> > > > In the UK we can have a type of asset called a SIPP (Self-invested
>>> > > Personal
>>> > > > Pension). You pay money into a SIPP with the idea of building up an
>>> > > income
>>> > > > for your retirement. The carrot is, you get a tax rebate. For
>>> example
>>> > if
>>> > > > you
>>> > > > pay 100 GBP into the SIPP, the government pays in another 25 GBP.
>>> > > >
>>> > > > For our annual tax reports, we have to report the total added to
>>> the
>>> > SIPP
>>> > > > during the tax year: the amount we pay in personally, plus the
>>> amount
>>> > > that
>>> > > > the government pays in, i.e. 125 GBP in the above example.
>>> > > >
>>> > > > This is easy to do if I keep the SIPP in a separate GC book. Then
>>> all
>>> > > > personal contributions and the Government's additional
>>> contributions
>>> > can
>>> > > be
>>> > > > put into the same income account. Easy. What's not so good is that
>>> (a)
>>> > I
>>> > > no
>>> > > > longer have an overview of all assets in one book and (b) to do my
>>> one
>>> > > tax
>>> > > > report I have to do two separate GC tax reports.
>>> > > >
>>> > > > Is there a better solution? Either something that allows me to keep
>>> > > > everything in one book, or a way that allows reports to query two
>>> > books?
>>> > > >
>>> > > >
>>> > > >
>>> > > > --
>>> > > > Sent from:
>>> > > http://gnucash.1415818.n4.nabble.com/GnuCash-User-f1415819.html
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