[GNC] Double entry bookkeeping for purchases to be paid at later date: LIABILITIES Re: gnucash-user Digest, Vol 224, Issue 13
Sharon Sydnor
sydnorbilling at bellsouth.net
Sun Nov 7 10:11:20 EST 2021
Shevach,
I am only experienced in basic bookkeeping but irrespective of what type of payment you intend to make, you have bought something you intend to pay for later hence IT IS a LIABILITY -so your second account WILL NOT be a checking/payment account. But you only need ONE account named LIABILITIES and that is your offsetting account - it will be a holding account of any and all obligations to pay later and you will recognize them each in the LIABILITIES holding account by purchase name and line item explanation and amount. LIABILITIES is just a temporary holding account so you are aware of obligations and what you owe and will have to cover to pay in the future and a record is made of the actual time of purchase irrespective of when it will be paid from your payment/checking account when it will be the offsetting account and come back out of the liabilities account.
Sent from my iPhone
> On Nov 7, 2021, at 8:45 AM, gnucash-user-request at gnucash.org wrote:
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> Today's Topics:
>
> 1. question from newbie (Shevach Pepper)
> 2. Re: Price editor uses old entry (Rainer Dorsch)
> 3. Re: question from newbie (Michael Hendry)
> 4. Re: question from newbie (Doug)
> 5. difficulties with managing accounts with lots of split
> transactions (Platon Pronko)
> 6. Black Screen (Chris Rumney)
> 7. Re: Black Screen (Derek Atkins)
> 8. Re: difficulties with managing accounts with lots of split
> transactions (Derek Atkins)
> 9. Re: difficulties with managing accounts with lots of split
> transactions (david whiting)
> 10. Re: difficulties with managing accounts with lots of split
> transactions (Platon Pronko)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Sat, 06 Nov 2021 21:40:55 +0000
> From: Shevach Pepper <shevachp at gmail.com>
> To: gnucash-user at gnucash.org
> Subject: [GNC] question from newbie
> Message-ID:
> <895b1b74-df2f-d9a8-a9a2-d0ab53250056 at ee9a2fef-dd37-4258-ba71-00493f9b4d2e>
>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>
> Hello there,
> 'I'm having trouble on how to record buying groceries on Jan. 1 with a
> head check for Feb. 1
> What I understood from the manual that this is not an expense but a
> liablity but I don't understand if I should make two accounts one
> expense: grocery and one "liability: grocery" or some easier way to
> record this.
> Thank you very much for the help
> Shevach
> gif
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Sun, 07 Nov 2021 09:46:41 +0100
> From: Rainer Dorsch <ml at bokomoko.de>
> To: Gnucash Users <gnucash-user at gnucash.org>
> Subject: Re: [GNC] Price editor uses old entry
> Message-ID: <4897319.uENy7qOpfP at h370>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>
> Am Samstag, 6. November 2021, 03:51:55 CET schrieb john:
>>>> On Nov 5, 2021, at 1:48 PM, Rainer Dorsch <ml at bokomoko.de> wrote:
>>>
>>> Am Freitag, 5. November 2021, 16:39:28 CET schrieben Sie:
>>>>> On Nov 5, 2021, at 4:22 AM, Rainer Dorsch via gnucash-user
>>>>> <gnucash-user at gnucash.org> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> Hi,
>>>>>
>>>>> I noticed that if the price editor has an entry in EUR and an entry in
>>>>> USD, it used the EUR entry, even if the USD entry has a newer date. My
>>>>> account currency is EUR.
>>>>>
>>>>> Is that intended and is there an option to change this behavior?
>>>>>
>>>>> I usually get the EUR entry, if I buy or sell stock or funds, which are
>>>>> accounted in USD.
>>>>
>>>> GnuCash always prefers a direct conversion over an indirect one
>>>> regardless
>>>> of the date. It's not optional. I suppose the problem arises because
>>>> you're
>>>> trading USD-priced stocks from an EUR-denominated brokerage account and
>>>> the
>>>> trades create the EUR prices. The simplest work around is to remove those
>>>> EUR prices from the pricedb; it won't affect the transaction or reports
>>>> using the average-cost price source. To avoid the problem going forward
>>>> create an intermediary USD bank account in your brokerage account
>>>> hierarchy
>>>> and when recording the trade make separate splits for USD<->EUR and
>>>> stock<->USD. Chris Lam is working on a stock trading assistant to make
>>>> this
>>>> a bit less cumbersome; we hope it will be finished in time for GnuCash 5.
>>>
>>> Thanks John for your quick reply.
>>>
>>> The scenario you describe matches well my use case.
>>>
>>> Yes, I manually delete the EUR entries in the pricedb
>>>
>>> I am looking forward to the stock trading assistant.
>>>
>>> Can you tell why GnuCash always prefers a direct conversion over an
>>> indirect one regardless of the date? Is this a bug or a feature :-) ?
>>
>> Please remember to copy the list on all replies.
>
> I remembered immediately and resent it also to the list.
>
> The current implementation works well for me, just have to remember that for
> each new transaction (could also be earnings), I need to delete the "new
> price" from the price editor otherwise I lose my quote updates silently. I
> just wanted to find out if I am doing something wrong.
>
> But I have to admit: from a pure user perspective, all the arguments given so
> far, do not convince me at all. I thought it might be useful to share it since
> there might be more users which have by far not the experience with accounting
> tools and insight in the gnucash implementation, which you have.
>
>> I don't think it's either a bug or a feature that GnuCash prefers direct
>> conversion, it's just a more efficient way to find a price given the way
>> price database is arranged in a sort of tree structure of linked lists.
>
> Frank worte:
>> you will end in very complex scenarios of the graph theory:
>> multiple pathes with different costs.
>
> When I read this first, I was not sure if the comment was pure irony or if it
> was serious. Since Johns argument is similar, I assume it is serious:
>
> The price editor manages to sort the quotes by date, so there must be already
> code which does that :-)
>
> David wrote:
>> When a transaction has an embedded price Gnucash assumes that it is a
>> purchase or sale and the price is exact for that trade. Quotes are
>> generally assumed to be estimates, therefore somewhat soft like newspaper
>> quotes.
>
> I which usecase would I be more interested in an exact historic price than in
> a current estimate?
>
> As written before, with the current implementation there are workarounds for
> me, just wanted to give my humble user perspective.
>
> Thanks for keeping gnucash up to date and running for so many years!
> Rainer
>
> --
> Rainer Dorsch
> http://bokomoko.de/
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 3
> Date: Sun, 7 Nov 2021 10:42:10 +0000
> From: Michael Hendry <hendry.michael at gmail.com>
> To: Shevach Pepper <shevachp at gmail.com>
> Cc: GnuCash users group <gnucash-user at gnucash.org>
> Subject: Re: [GNC] question from newbie
> Message-ID: <BD5ABA50-A7EF-4115-BE0D-8CF74FEDCB27 at gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
>
>> On 6 Nov 2021, at 21:40, Shevach Pepper <shevachp at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> Hello there,
>> 'I'm having trouble on how to record buying groceries on Jan. 1 with a
>> head check for Feb. 1
>> What I understood from the manual that this is not an expense but a
>> liablity but I don't understand if I should make two accounts one
>> expense: grocery and one "liability: grocery" or some easier way to
>> record this.
>> Thank you very much for the help
>> Shevach
>> gif
>
> I?m assuming a ?head check? is what we in the UK would call a post-dated cheque - a cheque which can?t be cashed until a stated date; for what it?s worth, I understand that banks in the UK will often make the payment if the cheque is presented early.
>
> I would suggest recording the expense on the date of the purchase as a transaction between your checking account and the grocery store. If you wish, you could add a note to indicate that the check can?t be presented until 1st Feb to avoid confusion when reconciling the bank account.
>
> It?s a similar situation to making a postal payment by check - you know that the payee won?t receive it for several days and may not take it to the bank for several days after that, but you?re recording your commitment to the payee rather than the date on which the bank transfers the money to his account.
>
> I am not an accountant, but there are those on the list who will no doubt correct me if there are problems with the way I view this!
>
> Michael
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 4
> Date: Sun, 7 Nov 2021 22:12:11 +1100
> From: Doug <lemans4 at internode.on.net>
> To: gnucash-user at gnucash.org
> Subject: Re: [GNC] question from newbie
> Message-ID: <20211107221211.103d6793 at internode.on.net>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
>
> Similar comment, by a non-accountant. What I do with transactions that are planned is to enter them when I place
> the forward transaction with the bank, & set the date as when the account will be paid (or transferred).
> I can always see the current day balance by looking at the dividing line on the account at todays date.
> Recurring expenses such as loan payments, periodical payments etc are copied using the duplicated transaction,
> then edited if required. This is handy for transactions with multiple splits (such as your pay if employed),
> where the amounts might change, but the splits remain fairly consistent (albeit with changed amounts).
> eg in my case for deposited weekly pay (before I retired!) I had (to give an idea) Total pay> Income; Tax> Tax; Superannuation> Super;
> various benefits & payments such as Union fees> relevant accounts. By using a duplicated transaction, it is
> easier to remember exactly how the splits are distributed.
> Hope that helps Mr Newbie!
> regards, Doug
>
> On Sun, 7 Nov 2021 10:42:10 +0000
> Michael Hendry <hendry.michael at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>>> On 6 Nov 2021, at 21:40, Shevach Pepper <shevachp at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> Hello there,
>>> 'I'm having trouble on how to record buying groceries on Jan. 1 with a
>>> head check for Feb. 1
>>> What I understood from the manual that this is not an expense but a
>>> liablity but I don't understand if I should make two accounts one
>>> expense: grocery and one "liability: grocery" or some easier way to
>>> record this.
>>> Thank you very much for the help
>>> Shevach
>>> gif
>>
>> I?m assuming a ?head check? is what we in the UK would call a post-dated cheque - a cheque which can?t be cashed until a stated date; for what it?s worth, I understand that banks in the UK will often make the payment if the cheque is presented early.
>>
>> I would suggest recording the expense on the date of the purchase as a transaction between your checking account and the grocery store. If you wish, you could add a note to indicate that the check can?t be presented until 1st Feb to avoid confusion when reconciling the bank account.
>>
>> It?s a similar situation to making a postal payment by check - you know that the payee won?t receive it for several days and may not take it to the bank for several days after that, but you?re recording your commitment to the payee rather than the date on which the bank transfers the money to his account.
>>
>> I am not an accountant, but there are those on the list who will no doubt correct me if there are problems with the way I view this!
>>
>> Michael
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> gnucash-user mailing list
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>> -----
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>
>
> --
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 5
> Date: Sun, 7 Nov 2021 15:08:42 +0300
> From: Platon Pronko <platon7pronko at gmail.com>
> To: gnucash-user at gnucash.org
> Subject: [GNC] difficulties with managing accounts with lots of split
> transactions
> Message-ID: <3a2924a2-4048-d0cb-663a-cac036f752d0 at gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"; Format="flowed"
>
> Hi!
>
> I currently find it a bit difficult to handle multi-split transactions that include several "splits" going to the same account. For example, if I'm buying some computer hardware I want to record the prices of each part for later reference, but all those parts are recorded in "Hardware" account - thus several splits go into the same account.
>
> In default "Basic Ledger" view this is shown in a confusing way - each split gets its own row, but each row displays the same transaction description (not the name of the individual part).
>
> For the moment I explored several different solutions to this situation:
>
> 1. Record each item (hardware part in this example) as a separate transaction. This solves the issue with display since I can now put each item name into the description field. But now I have multiple transactions my credit card account, which would make reliable reconciliation almost impossible.
>
> 2. Use the "Transaction Journal" view. It handles this situation a bit better than "Basic Ledger" - the rows are not duplicated. But it show all the splits, even the ones not related to the currently viewed account, and the simple two-split transactions start taking 3 rows each, which is too verbose, especially since this is a global setting.
>
> 3. Show "memo" as a separate column in "Basic Ledger" view (I've attached the code patch that does it, applies to version 4.8). This works quite nicely - simple transactions keep using one row, complex transactions display only the splits related to the current register and each split shows its memo right in the register. However this is a code customization, won't help anybody else with similar problems, and maintaining it is going to be more difficult than built-in solutions.
>
> Do you have any suggestions about a better way of handling this?
>
> Best regards,
> Platon Pronko
> -------------- next part --------------
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>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 6
> Date: Sun, 7 Nov 2021 12:57:03 +0000
> From: Chris Rumney <chrisr1919 at gmail.com>
> To: "gnucash-user at gnucash.org" <gnucash-user at gnucash.org>
> Subject: [GNC] Black Screen
> Message-ID:
> <LO4P123MB5140EA578625B89D8B28CF67FC909 at LO4P123MB5140.GBRP123.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>
>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>
> Hello,
>
> For the last few days every time I open up Gnucash all I see is a black screen.
> I am running it on a Mac, have closed the system down and restarted but this has no effect.
> There is a lot of data there so am wary of just deleting and reinstalling.
> All other programmes are working fine.
> Has anyone had this problem and know how to resolve?
>
> Many thanks
>
> Chris
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 7
> Date: Sun, 07 Nov 2021 08:12:31 -0500
> From: Derek Atkins <derek at ihtfp.com>
> To: Chris Rumney <chrisr1919 at gmail.com>, <gnucash-user at gnucash.org>
> Subject: Re: [GNC] Black Screen
> Message-ID:
> <17cfa876a18.27ea.ee0929d4f8247208f860e07266211506 at ihtfp.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="us-ascii"
>
> Upgrade to 4.8-2
>
> -derek
> Sent using my mobile device. Please excuse any typos.
>> On November 7, 2021 7:58:58 AM Chris Rumney <chrisr1919 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> Hello,
>>
>> For the last few days every time I open up Gnucash all I see is a black screen.
>> I am running it on a Mac, have closed the system down and restarted but
>> this has no effect.
>> There is a lot of data there so am wary of just deleting and reinstalling.
>> All other programmes are working fine.
>> Has anyone had this problem and know how to resolve?
>>
>> Many thanks
>>
>> Chris
>> _______________________________________________
>> gnucash-user mailing list
>> gnucash-user at gnucash.org
>> To update your subscription preferences or to unsubscribe:
>> https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-user
>> If you are using Nabble or Gmane, please see
>> https://wiki.gnucash.org/wiki/Mailing_Lists for more information.
>> -----
>> Please remember to CC this list on all your replies.
>> You can do this by using Reply-To-List or Reply-All.
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 8
> Date: Sun, 07 Nov 2021 08:13:46 -0500
> From: Derek Atkins <derek at ihtfp.com>
> To: Platon Pronko <platon7pronko at gmail.com>,
> <gnucash-user at gnucash.org>
> Subject: Re: [GNC] difficulties with managing accounts with lots of
> split transactions
> Message-ID:
> <17cfa888f10.27ea.ee0929d4f8247208f860e07266211506 at ihtfp.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="us-ascii"
>
> Use a vendor invoice to record it.. Or scan the receipt and attach it..
> Or put the info into the notes... Or..
>
> Lots of options.
>
> -derek
> Sent using my mobile device. Please excuse any typos.
>> On November 7, 2021 7:10:42 AM Platon Pronko <platon7pronko at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> Hi!
>>
>> I currently find it a bit difficult to handle multi-split transactions that
>> include several "splits" going to the same account. For example, if I'm
>> buying some computer hardware I want to record the prices of each part for
>> later reference, but all those parts are recorded in "Hardware" account -
>> thus several splits go into the same account.
>>
>> In default "Basic Ledger" view this is shown in a confusing way - each
>> split gets its own row, but each row displays the same transaction
>> description (not the name of the individual part).
>>
>> For the moment I explored several different solutions to this situation:
>>
>> 1. Record each item (hardware part in this example) as a separate
>> transaction. This solves the issue with display since I can now put each
>> item name into the description field. But now I have multiple transactions
>> my credit card account, which would make reliable reconciliation almost
>> impossible.
>>
>> 2. Use the "Transaction Journal" view. It handles this situation a bit
>> better than "Basic Ledger" - the rows are not duplicated. But it show all
>> the splits, even the ones not related to the currently viewed account, and
>> the simple two-split transactions start taking 3 rows each, which is too
>> verbose, especially since this is a global setting.
>>
>> 3. Show "memo" as a separate column in "Basic Ledger" view (I've attached
>> the code patch that does it, applies to version 4.8). This works quite
>> nicely - simple transactions keep using one row, complex transactions
>> display only the splits related to the current register and each split
>> shows its memo right in the register. However this is a code customization,
>> won't help anybody else with similar problems, and maintaining it is going
>> to be more difficult than built-in solutions.
>>
>> Do you have any suggestions about a better way of handling this?
>>
>> Best regards,
>> Platon Pronko
>>
>>
>> ----------
>> _______________________________________________
>> gnucash-user mailing list
>> gnucash-user at gnucash.org
>> To update your subscription preferences or to unsubscribe:
>> https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-user
>> If you are using Nabble or Gmane, please see
>> https://wiki.gnucash.org/wiki/Mailing_Lists for more information.
>> -----
>> Please remember to CC this list on all your replies.
>> You can do this by using Reply-To-List or Reply-All.
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 9
> Date: Sun, 7 Nov 2021 13:16:05 +0000
> From: david whiting <dw at davidwhiting.me.uk>
> To: Platon Pronko <platon7pronko at gmail.com>
> Cc: Gnucash <gnucash-user at gnucash.org>
> Subject: Re: [GNC] difficulties with managing accounts with lots of
> split transactions
> Message-ID:
> <CAK8-SWRQep7GbZCxnDsRhvdG2U4qcgpseU4ehamOJPvDNKN4fw at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
>
> I've set up hotkeys for the different views that gnucash has and I
> find it helpful for this sort of thing. It allows me to quickly switch
> between different views.
>
> ctrl+1: basic view
> ctrl+2: auto-split view (all splits for current transaction)
> ctrl+3: transaction journal view (all splits for all transactions)
> ctrl+4: toggle double line view (to see transaction notes)
>
> Here's how to set it up:
> https://lists.gnucash.org/pipermail/gnucash-user/2020-August/092757.html
>
> David
>
>> On Sun, 7 Nov 2021 at 12:09, Platon Pronko <platon7pronko at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> Hi!
>>
>> I currently find it a bit difficult to handle multi-split transactions that include several "splits" going to the same account. For example, if I'm buying some computer hardware I want to record the prices of each part for later reference, but all those parts are recorded in "Hardware" account - thus several splits go into the same account.
>>
>> In default "Basic Ledger" view this is shown in a confusing way - each split gets its own row, but each row displays the same transaction description (not the name of the individual part).
>>
>> For the moment I explored several different solutions to this situation:
>>
>> 1. Record each item (hardware part in this example) as a separate transaction. This solves the issue with display since I can now put each item name into the description field. But now I have multiple transactions my credit card account, which would make reliable reconciliation almost impossible.
>>
>> 2. Use the "Transaction Journal" view. It handles this situation a bit better than "Basic Ledger" - the rows are not duplicated. But it show all the splits, even the ones not related to the currently viewed account, and the simple two-split transactions start taking 3 rows each, which is too verbose, especially since this is a global setting.
>>
>> 3. Show "memo" as a separate column in "Basic Ledger" view (I've attached the code patch that does it, applies to version 4.8). This works quite nicely - simple transactions keep using one row, complex transactions display only the splits related to the current register and each split shows its memo right in the register. However this is a code customization, won't help anybody else with similar problems, and maintaining it is going to be more difficult than built-in solutions.
>>
>> Do you have any suggestions about a better way of handling this?
>>
>> Best regards,
>> Platon Pronko_______________________________________________
>> gnucash-user mailing list
>> gnucash-user at gnucash.org
>> To update your subscription preferences or to unsubscribe:
>> https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-user
>> If you are using Nabble or Gmane, please see https://wiki.gnucash.org/wiki/Mailing_Lists for more information.
>> -----
>> Please remember to CC this list on all your replies.
>> You can do this by using Reply-To-List or Reply-All.
>
>
>
> --
> David Whiting
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 10
> Date: Sun, 7 Nov 2021 16:42:42 +0300
> From: Platon Pronko <platon7pronko at gmail.com>
> To: Derek Atkins <derek at ihtfp.com>, gnucash-user at gnucash.org
> Subject: Re: [GNC] difficulties with managing accounts with lots of
> split transactions
> Message-ID: <12bf9f16-e609-1547-3008-bea2aa0ca2d7 at gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed
>
> Storing the info simply in the notes (or in a scan) feels a bit unstructured - harder to analyze later.
> But I didn't know about ability to attach a link to the transaction, that might be handy later -
> thanks for the tip.
>
> Best regards,
> Platon Pronko
>
>> On 2021-11-07 16:13, Derek Atkins wrote:
>> Use a vendor invoice to record it..? Or scan the receipt and attach it.. Or put the info into the notes... Or..
>>
>> Lots of options.
>>
>> -derek
>> Sent using my mobile device. Please excuse any typos.
>>> On November 7, 2021 7:10:42 AM Platon Pronko <platon7pronko at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> Hi!
>>>
>>> I currently find it a bit difficult to handle multi-split transactions that include several "splits" going to the same account. For example, if I'm buying some computer hardware I want to record the prices of each part for later reference, but all those parts are recorded in "Hardware" account - thus several splits go into the same account.
>>>
>>> In default "Basic Ledger" view this is shown in a confusing way - each split gets its own row, but each row displays the same transaction description (not the name of the individual part).
>>>
>>> For the moment I explored several different solutions to this situation:
>>>
>>> 1. Record each item (hardware part in this example) as a separate transaction. This solves the issue with display since I can now put each item name into the description field. But now I have multiple transactions my credit card account, which would make reliable reconciliation almost impossible.
>>>
>>> 2. Use the "Transaction Journal" view. It handles this situation a bit better than "Basic Ledger" - the rows are not duplicated. But it show all the splits, even the ones not related to the currently viewed account, and the simple two-split transactions start taking 3 rows each, which is too verbose, especially since this is a global setting.
>>>
>>> 3. Show "memo" as a separate column in "Basic Ledger" view (I've attached the code patch that does it, applies to version 4.8). This works quite nicely - simple transactions keep using one row, complex transactions display only the splits related to the current register and each split shows its memo right in the register. However this is a code customization, won't help anybody else with similar problems, and maintaining it is going to be more difficult than built-in solutions.
>>>
>>> Do you have any suggestions about a better way of handling this?
>>>
>>> Best regards,
>>> Platon Pronko
>>>
>>>
>>> ----------
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> gnucash-user mailing list
>>> gnucash-user at gnucash.org
>>> To update your subscription preferences or to unsubscribe:
>>> https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-user
>>> If you are using Nabble or Gmane, please see https://wiki.gnucash.org/wiki/Mailing_Lists for more information.
>>> -----
>>> Please remember to CC this list on all your replies.
>>> You can do this by using Reply-To-List or Reply-All.
>>
>>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Subject: Digest Footer
>
> _______________________________________________
>
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> End of gnucash-user Digest, Vol 224, Issue 13
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