[GNC] Confusing and inconsistent headers in transaction entry and report forms

Tue Aug 16 20:52:02 EDT 2022

Hi, David,

Please see my last posting.  On MacOS Catalina, the results appear correct
on the Transaction Report, but not on Big Sur.

-P.

On Tue, Aug 16, 2022 at 6:24 PM David Cousens <davidcousens49 at gmail.com>
wrote:

> Peter,
>
> I have done the same thing you did with a brand new account setup and a
> single
> transaction. I have attached the same screenshots but for the transaction
> account have varied the selected accounts. I selected all children of
> either the
> top level assets and Income accounts or both. These are in GnuCash 4.11 on
> Linux
> Mint 21. (I upgraded from LM 20  yesterday).
>
> As you can see we somehow get very different results.  My suspicion is
> that it
> will have something to do with the account selection and filtering options
> in
> the Report Options however I have been unable to duplicate what you have
> in your
> transaction report by varying the selected accounts. I explored the
> options on
> the display tab to see if I could duplicate what you get but couldn't.
>
> It may help if you can list the options you have selected in each tab of
> the
> Report Options dialogue to see if we can define the conditions that are
> producing your result.
>
>  The format ofyour transaction report is slightly different fromn mine
> which
> lists the totals for the selected accounts in bold  rather than the total
> for
> the month but that is the primary total selection in the Sorting tab but
> that is
> still not reversing the Debit/credit columns  as in the last attached copy
> of
> the transaction report.
>
> David
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Tue, 2022-08-16 at 13:55 -0400, Peter S. Shenkin wrote:
> > As an experiment, I started a band new Gnucash file for test purposes. I
> > entered a single transaction. I am attaching a view of the register, a
> > Transaction report and a Balance sheet.
> >
> > You can see that the same thing is happening that happened before:
> > * Register view shows that the checking account was debited.
> > * Balance sheet shows that the checking account, which started at 0, now
> has a
> > positive balance.
> > * Transaction report shows that the column labeled "Credit" shows debits
> and
> > the column labeled "Debit" shows credits, which is backwards.
> > Thus, I think it is clear at the very least that the problem did not
> arise
> > from the switch from 4.6 to 4.11. I also think it shows that I am not
> doing
> > anything wrong, but please correct me if you disagree.
> >
> > I would look forward to suggestions.
> >
> > -P.
> >
> >
> > On Tue, Aug 16, 2022 at 1:46 PM Peter S. Shenkin <shenkin at gmail.com>
> wrote:
> > > Hi, David,
> > >
> > > On the balance sheet, everything is correct; the sums reflecting the
> > > balances of the various real accounts are correct and in agreement
> with the
> > > bank statements; in other words, they reconcile. I also demonstrated
> this in
> > > the very first screen shot I sent when I started the case, the shot of
> the
> > > transaction viewed in the register. In this image, you can see that a
> debit
> > > to a cash account properly increased the cash balance. So I do not see
> how
> > > it is possible to conclude that the transactions were in any way
> entered
> > > incorrectly.
> > >
> > > It is only in the transaction report where the debits are mislabeled as
> > > credits and vice versa.  I do not see how this could be the fault of
> the way
> > > I entered the transactions, which modify the account balances
> concerned in
> > > the proper manner.
> > >
> > > I understand that there are other ways of entering transactions. But
> you did
> > > say, regarding the way I entered them, that "this works". In fact I
> think
> > > the information in the first paragraph above validates the stronger
> > > assertion that "this, in fact, has worked properly for my
> transactsions." .
> > > But if you see a way I could possibly be wrong about that, please do
> suggest
> > > what it might be.
> > >
> > > I agree that nobody we have heard from has had the same problem. But
> there
> > > it is. If you have a suggestion for anything I might try that could
> cast
> > > light upon this, please do let me know.
> > >
> > > One more thing. IIRC, I originally created the account using Gnucash
> 4.6 and
> > > later switched to 4.11. But I do not know whether the same problem
> appeared
> > > when I was using 4.6. I'm skeptical whether this could be involved.
> > >
> > > Best,
> > > -P.
> > >
> > > On Thu, Aug 4, 2022 at 3:18 AM <davidcousens49 at gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > On Wed, 2022-08-03 at 20:28 -0400, Peter S. Shenkin wrote:
> > > > > Adrian,
> > > > >
> > > > > I do have full account names turned on. I forget where I did that.
> I
> > > > have
> > > > > no customized sort that affects the order of accounts within a
> > > > transaction
> > > > > in either register view nor in the transaction report. (I prefer
> to sort
> > > > > the transactions by date in the transaction report, but that's
> just me.)
> > > > >
> > > > > You point out correctly that in the register view, where
> transactions
> > > > are
> > > > > entered, each line of the transaction (which is shown completely
> in my
> > > > > screen shot) shows the debit first (on the left) and credit
> second, as
> > > > is
> > > > > customary. I had the labeling of the columns set to the
> out-of-the-box
> > > > > defaults of Increase and Decrease, respectively. This is highly
> > > > misleading,
> > > > > because in fact both of these accounts increase as the result of
> the
> > > > > transaction. I later changed the labels to Debit and Credit, an
> > > > available
> > > > > option, which is less misleading, but other than the labels, the
> > > > > transaction looks exactly the same in both the account register
> and the
> > > > > transaction report. That is, the Credit and Debit labels are still
> > > > reversed
> > > > > in the transaction log.
> > > >
> > > > Peter,
> > > >
> > > > This seems to be counter to everyone else's experience with GnuCash
> and
> > > > definitely is not what occurs in the transaction report in GnuCash
> 4.11 on
> > > > Linux
> > > > Mint 20.3.  I suspect if it was occurring specifically on either a
> MacOSX
> > > > or
> > > > Windows systems we would have a large number of experienced users
> (and
> > > > some of
> > > > us are accountants and pretty pedantic about such aspects)
> complaining
> > > > pretty
> > > > loudly.  So we need to work out why your experience is completely
> opposite
> > > > to
> > > > everyone else's or whether it is just a misinterpretation of what is
> being
> > > > displayed in the transaction report. In the transaction Report
> options
> > > > there is
> > > > an option in the Display tab to display one transaction per line or
> one
> > > > split
> > > >  per line.  Using the second option one split  per line, both debit
> and
> > > > credit
> > > > entries for the transaction will be displayed  but entries not to the
> > > > accounts
> > > > selected in the transaction report will be in the second(and
> subsequent
> > > > lines
> > > > for transactions with more than two splits) and the different
> selected
> > > > account
> > > > entries will be listed in sections with the account name at the
> head. The
> > > > transaction report is possibly the most general of the reports and is
> > > > highly
> > > > customizable from the report options
> > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > You seemed to express uncertainty about the account register. The
> way I
> > > > > enter transactions is to pick an account (for instance, by
> clicking on
> > > > it
> > > > > in a balance sheet). That opens the register tab, set to that
> account.
> > > > If I
> > > > > am remembering correctly, it will always list that account on the
> first
> > > > > line of the transaction, then you can add your currency total in
> either
> > > > the
> > > > > Debit or the Credit column for that account. For the balancing
> account
> > > > or
> > > > > accounts (in the case of a split), you similarly enter the currency
> > > > total
> > > > > for each account on a succeeding line, in either the debit or the
> credit
> > > > > column, and select the account from a pulldown you can invoke from
> that
> > > > > line.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > While this works, A balance sheet, depending on the report options
> may not
> > > > show
> > > > all the accounts in your chart of accounts so it is limiting in which
> > > > accounts
> > > > you can choose to open. How you open the register tab for an account
> does
> > > > not
> > > > affect the order of display of the lines as it invokes the same
> routine to
> > > > open
> > > > the register. Double clicking on the icon for the account (looks a
> bit
> > > > like the
> > > > front of a colonial bank) in the Accounts tab will give you access
> to all
> > > > non-
> > > > hidden accounts (hidden accounts can be found with the Edit->Find
> Account
> > > > dialogue).
> > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > There is no specified order in the register view for the accounts
> > > > involved
> > > > > in a transaction; the account you selected to open the tab will
> always
> > > > be
> > > > > listed on the first line nd the succeeding lines will appear in the
> > > > order
> > > > > in which you entered them.
> > > >
> > > > This is not necessarily the case. If you open an existing
> transaction in
> > > > an
> > > > asset register in either Auto-split or Transaction Journal mode if
> it is a
> > > > credit transaction to the asset register (eg a bank account), the
> entry to
> > > > the
> > > > account for the register which is open will appear on the last line
> not
> > > > the
> > > > first. On the other hand if it is a transaction which debits an open
> asset
> > > > account register it will appear first. I.e. the debit components of
> the
> > > > transaction is listed in the lines before the credit components in
> all
> > > > cases.
> > > >
> > > > When you are entering a new transaction, if you do not specifically
> select
> > > > an
> > > > account in the Account column where "Account "is displayed in
> Italics in
> > > > the
> > > > first split entry, GnuCash will assume that it is the account of the
> > > > register
> > > > that is open (but you can explicitly select another account for the
> first
> > > > line,
> > > > in which case you have to explicitly select the account associate
> with the
> > > > currently open register in another line of the transaction to
> complete the
> > > > transaction. If you leave a subsequent line blank and press enter the
> > > > transaction will not be saved in the register.
> > > >
> > > > You can also actually enter a transaction affecting any set of
> accounts
> > > > from
> > > > within a register which is not associated with any of those accounts
> as
> > > > long as
> > > > the debits and credits sum to zero just as you can edit the accounts
> in a
> > > > register and change the account in a split to the account of the open
> > > > register
> > > >  to any other account  which will shift that split of the
> transaction to
> > > > the
> > > > other account and it will then display in the register for that
> account
> > > > when it
> > > > is opened.  This is quite often used with imported transactions
> which are
> > > > assigned to the wrong account to correct the transaction without
> > > > reimporting the
> > > > transaction.
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > David Cousens
> > > > > I'm pretty new to Gnucash (or is it gnu to Newcash?), so maybe
> there is
> > > > > another way of entering transactions, but this is the one I know.
> > > > >
> > > > > -P.
> > > > >
> > > > > On Tue, Aug 2, 2022 at 2:51 AM Adrien Monteleone <
> > > > > adrien.monteleone at lusfiber.net> wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > > I took another look at your initial report screenshot.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > It is correct and *not* reversed.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > There are some parts of it missing, but you can see them in my
> > > > > > screenshot version.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > The main difference otherwise in our two reports is that you've
> listed
> > > > > > the Donations transaction first and the Checking transaction
> after.
> > > > (not
> > > > > > sure how that worked out, because I thought they appear in their
> order
> > > > > > in the Account Tree, but I guess you have a customized reversed
> > > > sorting
> > > > > > order in Options > Sorting > Primary Sort Order > Descending.
> Default
> > > > is
> > > > > > Ascending)
> > > > > >
> > > > > > The first line then, is from the perspective of the Donations
> account.
> > > > > > In that account, the amount is a credit and that is what the
> report
> > > > > > shows, with the transfer account being Checking.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > The second line is from the perspective of the Checking account,
> and
> > > > > > that amount is a debit (also correctly shown) with the transfer
> > > > account
> > > > > > being Donations.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I can't find an option to turn off the Account name. I'm
> guessing you
> > > > > > copy/pasted the lines or blocked out that part resulting in
> missing
> > > > labels.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Look at my screenshot again showing both accounts ,and the extra
> > > > labels
> > > > > > and info, which should make the report more clear.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Regards,
> > > > > > Adrien
> > > > > >
> > > > > > On 8/2/22 12:24 AM, Adrien Monteleone wrote:
> > > > > > > Peter,
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Yes, I caught all of that.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > I'm referring to default options of the report - not GnuCash
> > > > generally.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > If you have the report still open, close it.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Now, run it again. Note, you shouldn't get anything at first
> except
> > > > a
> > > > > > > page telling you that you need to set options first,
> particularly to
> > > > > > > choose accounts.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Click the Options button on the toolbar, on the Accounts tab,
> select
> > > > > > > only the Checking account. Set the date range however you like
> in
> > > > the
> > > > > > > General tab, but narrowing it down to the one day of the
> transaction
> > > > > > > will remove cruft. Do not change any other report options.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > You should now see a list of transactions on that date
> affecting the
> > > > > > > Checking account.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Is it correct?
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Note, if you have only that one transaction, you should see
> only one
> > > > > > > line in the report, not two.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Now, edit the Options > Accounts again, and this time, select
> *both*
> > > > > > > Checking & Donations and click Apply.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Now, you should see separate sections of the report, one for
> each
> > > > > > > account with subtotals and you'll see the same transaction
> twice,
> > > > once
> > > > > > > from the perspective of the Checking account, and the other
> from the
> > > > > > > perspective of the Donation account.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > I've done a sample transaction with similarly named Asset &
> Revenue
> > > > > > > accounts and attached screenshots of the register, the
> Transaction
> > > > > > > Report with just Checking selected, and the Transaction Report
> with
> > > > both
> > > > > > > Checking & Donation accounts selected.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > If your report doesn't look exactly like this save for the
> specific
> > > > > > > Description and amount, something is off.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Regards,
> > > > > > > Adrien
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > On 8/2/22 12:05 AM, Peter S. Shenkin wrote:
> > > > > > > > Hi, Adrian,
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > My first image shows a single transaction (the "wepay to
> checking"
> > > > > > > > transaction). But I separately pasted in the Checking
> balance from
> > > > the
> > > > > > > > previous transaction, which is not fully shown. I wanted the
> > > > reader to
> > > > > > > > see
> > > > > > > > that indeed the transaction I did show raised the Checking
> > > > balance. And
> > > > > > I
> > > > > > > > also pasted in the header line from the top of the page.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > I'm not sure which default/non-default options you are
> referring
> > > > to.
> > > > > > > > If you
> > > > > > > > mean using Debit/Credit headers as register labels instead of
> > > > > > > > Increase/Decrease, I tried it both ways and it didn't change
> the
> > > > > > > > appearance
> > > > > > > > of the transaction report.
> > > > > >
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