[GNC] : What is the intended effect of hiding an account ?

davidvernonlong at gmail.com davidvernonlong at gmail.com
Fri Jul 22 14:18:39 EDT 2022


Normally I would always wish, even for hidden accounts, that any balance
would be included in the totals, otherwise my balance sheet would not add up
and assets would not equal equity plus liabilities. If I did not want the
balance to be reflected in totals, I would clear it off with an accounting
entry which complies with normal accounting double entry principles and has
a debit and a credit. I would not expect the user's manual to state that
balances in hidden accounts still effect totals, as it would go without
saying in any accounting system. To do otherwise would be a bug, unless it
were an option.
But its hard to be definitive without knowing the purposes of wishing
balances in hidden accounts not to be reflected in totals, as others have
said.
David Long



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Today's Topics:

   1. Re:  GC4.10 on Win10 Crashing (A Harvey)
   2. Re:  What is the intended effect of hiding an account ?
      (David Carlson)


----------------------------------------------------------------------

Message: 1
Date: Thu, 21 Jul 2022 19:20:25 -0400
From: A Harvey <gah1178 at gmail.com>
To: john <jralls at ceridwen.us>
Cc: "David T." <sunfish62 at yahoo.com>, GnuCash List
	<gnucash-user at lists.gnucash.org>,  Adrien Monteleone
	<adrien.monteleone at lusfiber.net>
Subject: Re: [GNC] GC4.10 on Win10 Crashing
Message-ID:
	<CANf04h3yaT=L1PmX2crpCe6fViSZC7QA_8SRe6wO_w5JX6v3Fw at mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"

John,
Thanks for the pointer on how to get a stack trace.  I will see whether I
can find anything useful.

Either way, I will try the Sqlite3 backend eventually.  I do have File
History turned on and I actually did use it to recover a file once.  I'll
have to learn more about how to recover from potentially catastrophic user
mistakes before I try the database (e.g. increase frequency of File History
saves).  Some years ago before the CSV importer allowed saving of
configurations, I imported a large number of transactions but forgot to
change the date format from the default to the U.S. format.  The dates of
the imported transactions were sprayed all over the timeline.  Fortunately,
I had done a save before that and quit Gnucash without saving the erroneous
data.

-Arthur

On Thu, Jul 21, 2022 at 1:57 PM john <jralls at ceridwen.us> wrote:

> Remember that you can get automatic save on each transaction by 
> switching to the Sqlite3 backend by using File>Save As... and 
> selecting Sqlite3 from the drop-down at the top of the dialog box.
> Note that Sqlite3 changes the file in place so there are no GnuCash 
> backups. Set up File History or some other automatic backup program
instead.
>
> That's not to suggest that you shouldn't figure out as much as you can 
> about the cause of the crashes and then file a bug report. The 
> absolute best information is a stack trace, but that can be a bit 
> challenging on Windows. See 
> https://wiki.gnucash.org/wiki/Stack_Trace#Windows for instructions.
>
> Regards,
> John Ralls
>
>
>
> On Jul 21, 2022, at 8:47 AM, A Harvey <gah1178 at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> I have a similar problem.  It occurs in both 4.10.x and 4.11.  I think 
> it also occurred in 4.9 but can't remember.  I encountered it on 
> windows 10 and windows 11.  I run Gnucash monthly.  Importing CSV bank 
> and credit card statements always works.  I don't import investment 
> transactions as massaging the data to import as a CSV would be more 
> work than just entering them directly. Typically, I either start 
> typing a transaction and then accept the suggested description and 
> transfer account, or I duplicate an existing transaction and modify 
> the amounts.  Most of the transactions are automatic dividend/interest
reinvestments for stock/bond funds.
> Here is the problem.  I will enter several investment transactions, 
> then type ctl-s or click the save button.  Sometimes Gnucash exits 
> without saving and without deleting the lock file.  This will happen 
> roughly 3 times over the course of entering 25 or so transactions.  
> Some subset of unsaved transactions are lost.  I've developed the 
> habit of saving after each transaction so that I never have more than 
> one unsaved transaction when it crashes.  I haven't been able to 
> detect any pattern with respect to which accounts, what types of 
> transaction or other factors may be involved.  Restarting Gnucash and 
> reentering the lost transaction exactly as before works fine.
>
> I will enable the logging (-debug and -extra? I'll read the Wiki on 
> how to turn that stuff on) and check the trace file next time I run 
> Gnucash to see whether it captures anything useful when and if it crashes
again.
>
> Regards,
> -Arthur
>
> On Wed, Jul 20, 2022 at 2:16 AM David T. via gnucash-user < 
> gnucash-user at gnucash.org> wrote:
>
> I apologize if my response seemed testy. It's extremely frustrating to 
> be working on a large data set with lots of complex transactions ("How 
> exactly should the capital gains for a stock position with multiple 
> purchase lots and an intervening split be tracked?"), finally work out 
> how those complex transactions get recorded, enter them, go to save 
> the result, only to have the program crash out.
>
> I will certainly try closing at least the one report I have open, as 
> your idea that the report derives information from that reconciled 
> account seems a reasonable possibility.
>
>
>
> On July 20, 2022 12:42:42 AM GMT+03:00, Adrien Monteleone < 
> adrien.monteleone at lusfiber.net> wrote:
>
> I wasn't trying to cause you work, just offering ideas on tracking 
> down
>
> the cause. Eliminating variables is part of that process. Lots of tabs 
> and especially reports open = variables.
>
>
> I'm going to hazard there is a report that feeds off one of those
>
> registers (likely the one you are reconciling) that is a good 
> candidate, thus closing everything but that register should reveal if 
> that is the case.
>
>
> But perhaps an upgrade to 4.11 would suit you better. You'll end up 
> there
>
> most likely anyway.
>
>
> Regards,
> Adrien
>
> On 7/19/22 1:41 PM, David T. via gnucash-user wrote:
>
> Adrien,
>
> Thanks for the suggestions.
>
> It would seem to me that Finish/Ctrl-S is pretty reduced.
>
> I currently have about 12 tabs open. 10 registers, the CoA, and one
>
> report (granted, it's a multicolumn report).
>
>
> Saving after every edit is a remarkably annoying idea, especially 
> given
>
> how long each save takes. I won't be doing that.
>
>
> As for a backup, I'm not sure why I'd go to a backup. The problem
>
> doesn't always happen, so I don't believe it's a problem with data 
> corruption. I'm trying to move forward with my books, not backward.
>
>
> Nothing is holding me back from 4.11.
>
>
>
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------------------------------

Message: 2
Date: Thu, 21 Jul 2022 18:33:14 -0500
From: David Carlson <david.carlson.417 at gmail.com>
To: stepbystepfarm at comcast.net
Cc: Tom Browder <tom.browder at gmail.com>, Gnucash Users
	<gnucash-user at gnucash.org>
Subject: Re: [GNC] What is the intended effect of hiding an account ?
Message-ID:
	<CADYgSbmgi=bxd5YE+gRTUhrb+LaRU+gSMSXnwdr1Caw8qxeafg at mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"

Sorry,  I was not really paying attention to who was answering which
question.  It is very hard to do when Gmail is butchering the thread
sequence.

On Thu, Jul 21, 2022, 5:44 PM Michael or Penny Novack <
stepbystepfarm at comcast.net> wrote:

> On 7/21/2022 4:53 PM, David Carlson wrote:
> > Perhaps another user misunderstood your question. John R is a major 
> > developer and he has a very good idea of what is going on inside the 
> > program. Clarifying the documentation is always appreciated.
>
> David, I was NOT asking about how the program worked or about the 
> documentation. I have not worked on THIS project but am a retired 
> senior systems analyst and senior business analyst, decades in the 
> cypher mines for one of the world's largest "financials".
>
> I was asking about PURPOSE.
>
> I can see clear uses for hiding sub accounts but having their contents 
> included in the (parental) total. But it is far less clear under what 
> circumstances you would want sub accounts (that had non-zero balances) 
> to NOT be included in the (parental) total when the sub accounts were 
> hidden. That's the behavior that was being asked about.
>
> Documentation unclear that this is not what happens? Unless a clear 
> purpose, I would consider NOT including in the totals a more or less 
> obvious accounting error. The documentation is supposed to clarify 
> "gnucash does not make this error", "gnucash does not make that 
> error?, etc.
>
> That's why I was asking "under what circumstances would you NOT want 
> the hidden accounts included in the parental total?" Wearing the 
> business analyst hat, not the systems analyst hat.
>
> Michael D Novack
>
>
>


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