[GNC] Evil Lots Behavior

David Carlson david.carlson.417 at gmail.com
Wed Jul 27 11:01:41 EDT 2022


I guess I must have read the manual before all those detailed descriptions
about documenting stock sales were added, because I only recall a few terse
sentences, which did not include lots.

I do not recall any written warning about the circumstances where tracking
expenses and commissions were incompatible with some reports, I found that
out the hard way.

I have been manually identifying lots with text in the memos forever, using
spreadsheets to verify that I have the proper purchases matched to the
sales.

I have not bothered to do that with mutual funds because my broker is using
average cost basis for those.

If turning on lots would reorganize those years ago reconciled
transactions, then I think that is a serious bug.



On Wed, Jul 20, 2022, 11:16 PM David T. <sunfish62 at yahoo.com> wrote:

> Thanks for the information and background.
>
> While I understand and agree with much of the reasoning in what you're
> saying, I think that my major issues with the lots feature are threefold.
>
> First is that sometimes its calculations don't match what the brokerage
> lists. Since the brokerage reports to the government, and it's their
> business to report according to the law, I'm going to prefer their numbers
> over Gnucash's. If the lot feature presents the wrong number, I'm going to
> change it. I should be able to
>
> Second is that you don't have to scrub an account or even a lot for the
> system to change existing data. All you have to do is click on the lot and
> view it. It seems to me that the mere act of viewing a lot should not cause
> changes. That should be user-initiated through an active click on
> something. Heisenberg's principle should not apply to lots in GnuCash!
>
> Third, it most certainly shouldn't be changing transactions that have been
> reconciled. It does this completely silently and doesn't trigger the notice
> that you're changing a reconciled transaction. That flies in the face of
> how the rest of the app works, not to mention with the concept of a
> reconciled transaction. I can't see how this can NOT be a bug.
>
> Because of this undocumented behavior, I have NO WAY OF KNOWING WHETHER MY
> BOOKS ARE STILL ACCURATE. If I want to ensure that they are, I will have to
> go back through all 17 years of commodity history and re-reconcile it all.
>
> What fun!
>
> David T.
>
> On July 21, 2022 3:57:35 AM GMT+03:00, Geoff <cleanoutmyshed at gmail.com>
> wrote:
>>
>> My recollection is that Lots have always worked this way, even as far back as GnuCash Version 2.
>>
>> My opinion is that this not a bug, it is just how Lots work.  The price you pay for using Lots is that Lots rule the capital gains/losses calculations and will trump (and, as you have found, even trample on) any other transactions that get in their way.
>>
>> Ask yourself the "Michael or Penny Question (TM)": WHY are you trying to change the gain value computed by GnuCash to something else?
>>
>> If your answer is "because I need to include Commissions or Fees in the calculation" then you are out of luck.  See:
>>
>> 9.7.2.8. Considerations
>> There are some points that should be considered before using the lot management facility.
>>
>> 3. Scrubbing does not recognize commissions or fees so makes no allowance for them in the calculation of gain or loss. Therefore you must use Net Pricing rather than Gross Pricing if you wish to use scrubbing. See Section 9.5.2.1, “Handling Commissions and Fees”.
>>
>> https://code.gnucash.org/docs/C/gnucash-guide/invest-sell1.html#:~:text=GnuCash%20can%20automatically%20calculate%20and,securities%20sold%20can%20be%20determined.
>>
>> AND
>>
>> 9.5.2.1. Handling Commissions and Fees
>> https://code.gnucash.org/docs/C/gnucash-guide/invest-buy-stock1.html#invest-buy-com
>>
>>
>> In summary:
>> Lots can be useful for matching Buys & Sells, either automatically on a FIFO basis or manually on a pick and choose basis.
>> Lots have only one method to calculate Capital Gains/Losses.
>> Lots user interface behaviour is tricky to learn until you master it (largely in my case by trial and error).
>> Lots functionality does not cover all use cases.
>> Lots are ruthless, but not intrinsically evil.
>> If you want to do your own Capital Gains/Losses calculations, you can, but just don't use Lots at all.
>>
>> Important Lots tip:
>> Lots calculations are fully reversible - just delete all the Capital Gains/Losses transactions it created and start matching Buys and Sells again.  Rinse and repeat.
>>
>>
>> Hope this helps.
>>
>> Regards
>>
>> Geoff
>> ------------------------------
>> On 21/07/2022 12:40 am, David Carlson wrote:
>>
>>> It could be very helpful to learn if this started in a recent release, or
>>> has it been that way since back in the 3.x series.
>>>
>>> On Wed, Jul 20, 2022 at 8:54 AM David T. via gnucash-user <
>>> gnucash-user at gnucash.org> wrote:
>>>
>>> Hello,
>>>>
>>>> In the course of catching up with my accounting, I've been working
>>>> extensively with mutual fund holdings, and their buys and sells. I have
>>>> found a disturbing bug in the way that the lots feature handles existing
>>>> gains.
>>>>
>>>> Specifically, the software recalculates ALL gains in a lot the moment you
>>>> select that lot. A user does not have to try and change anything in the
>>>> lot; the mere act of selecting the lot causes every gain entry to be
>>>> recalculated. The recalculation silently takes place without notice to the
>>>> user, and it recalculates gains entries that have already been reconciled.
>>>> Sometimes, the value on the reconciled gain transaction will be changed; at
>>>> other times, new gains entries get created. I haven't figured out why a new
>>>> entry is created sometimes, and the existing entry gets changed at others.
>>>>
>>>> This is highly problematic. It means that users cannot rely on lot-managed
>>>> accounts having accurate gains information, and its silent action means
>>>> that the user will not know why their accounts were accurate at one point,
>>>> but not later on.
>>>>
>>>> To see this in action, create a mutual fund account, add a purchase of 100
>>>> shares. Sell 25 shares at a different price, and then use the lots features
>>>> to assign the purchase and then the sale to a lot. Gnucash will
>>>> automatically create the gain transaction. Now, change the gain value in
>>>> the transaction to something else. Reconcile the account, including the
>>>> gains entry. Now, return to the lot window and select the lot. The gains
>>>> will be recalculated-- even though the gain is already reconciled.
>>>>
>>>> If others confirm my observations, I'll file a bug.
>>>>
>>>> David T.
>>>> ------------------------------
>>>> gnucash-user mailing list
>>>> gnucash-user at gnucash.org
>>>> To update your subscription preferences or to unsubscribe:
>>>> https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-user
>>>> If you are using Nabble or Gmane, please see
>>>> https://wiki.gnucash.org/wiki/Mailing_Lists for more information.
>>>> ------------------------------
>>>> Please remember to CC this list on all your replies.
>>>> You can do this by using Reply-To-List or Reply-All.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>


More information about the gnucash-user mailing list