[GNC] strange lack of exchange rates in a new currency cash account

Thu Jul 27 00:41:44 EDT 2023

Hi John,

It turns out that I had the latest version of GnuCash that's supported by my version of Ubuntu (v3.8b). I installed Flatpak and used it to install GnuCash v5.3. I entered a grocery-store purchase for today, and entered the exchange rate manually as "1/23600." After I completed the transaction, the Account Summary then displayed a normal dollar value for my dong cash. I tried entering a couple test transactions (an ATM withdrawal and a gift-store purchase), and everything still seemed to work normally. So far it always shows a dollar equivalent that looks normal on the Account Summary.

So I think this must have been a bug that has been fixed in the past few years. Thank you for your help. 

I also like the new selection feature for auto-completion of new register entries.

Be Well,

Scott
<<<< Scott Ellsworth || +1 (775) 386-2519 >>>>

----- Original message -----
From: Scott Ellsworth <scott at fastmail.us>
To: john <jralls at ceridwen.us>
Cc: GnuCash user forum <gnucash-user at gnucash.org>
Subject: Re: [GNC] strange lack of exchange rates in a new currency cash account
Date: Wednesday, July 26, 2023 11:18

Hi John,

I just tried a test transaction, an ATM withdrawal in Malaysian ringgits, and it worked flawlessly like usual, using the previous exchange rate by default, and showing a correct dollar value for the Malaysian cash afterwards in the Account Summary. T\S the glitch appears to only affect Vietnamese dong, perhaps because the currency unit is so tiny. As mentioned, I tried creating a new dong cash account and the same glitches started happening in it as well.

I have the box unchecked for Force Decimals. I looked at my GnuCash version, and it's v3.8, running on Ubuntu Linux 20.04.6 LTS. I run updates every Sunday, but come to think of it now, I haven't seen Gnucash update in a really long time. I last reinstalled my computer in the fall of 2021. Perhaps the Gnucash installation process in the Ubuntu Software GUI doesn't currently include setting up the repository for updates. I need to move along to other things right now, but maybe tomorrow I'll try reinstalling to the latest version of GnuCash that my OS version will allow.

Be Well,

Scott
<<<< Scott Ellsworth || +1 (775) 386-2519 >>>>

----- Original message -----
From: john <jralls at ceridwen.us>
To: Scott Ellsworth <scott at fastmail.us>
Cc: GnuCash user forum <gnucash-user at gnucash.org>
Subject: Re: [GNC] strange lack of exchange rates in a new currency cash account
Date: Tuesday, July 25, 2023 22:44

Scott,

I don't know what's going on and I can't replicate it. I created a VND account in a test book and created the following transactions (This is a Transaction report with one line per split set on the Display tab. I've also turned off Force prices to decimal in Preferences>Numbers, Date, Time.):

Date Account Shares Price Debit Credit

01/01/2023 VND Cash 2,000,000.00 $0.0000425 ₫2,000,000
Checking Account -85.00 $1.0000 $85.00
07/23/2023 VND Cash -49,530.00 ₫1.00 ₫49,530
Books 2.09 ₫23,698 + 118/209 $2.09
07/25/2023 VND Cash -136,000.00 ₫1.00 ₫136,000
Groceries 5.68 ₫23,943 + 47/71 $5.68

I entered the price three different ways: For the first I started in the USD-denominated Checking Account register, entered 85.00 in the register's Credit field and 2000000 in the Debit Amount field of the transfer dialog. The other two I started in the VND Cash register and put values in the price field; as a rational number for the first and a decimal number (editing the one the Transfer dialog presented; that was before I changed the Force prices to decimal preference. The book does not have Trading accounts enabled. GnuCash is v5.3.

Regards,
John Ralls

> On Jul 25, 2023, at 00:57, Scott Ellsworth <scott at fastmail.us> wrote:
> 
> Hi John,
> 
> Another update about the strange behavior: Just now I came back from shopping and recorded three transactions. When inputting the first transaction, the exchange rate was still in place from yesterday. For the second and third transactions, the exchange rate was blank both times and I had to input it manually. This time I tried entering "0.00004237" instead of the fraction. But now the Account Summary again shows that my dong cash has zero value.
> 
> Be Well,
>  
> Scott
> <<<< Scott Ellsworth || +1 (775) 386-2519 >>>>
> 
> ----- Original message -----
> From: Scott Ellsworth <scott at fastmail.us>
> To: john <jralls at ceridwen.us>
> Cc: GnuCash user forum <gnucash-user at gnucash.org>
> Subject: Re: [GNC] strange lack of exchange rates in a new currency cash account
> Date: Tuesday, July 25, 2023 09:15
> 
> *Hi John,*
> 
> *As you're looking around in there to see what's happening, it might be useful if I summarize a couple of key points (though perhaps you've already gathered this from our discussion): I was consistently seeing the total value of my dong cash at zero value, apparently because I had entered the actual amount received from ATM withdrawals, and because I had written exchange rates for transactions every time with fractions. But at the same time, all transactions except one visit to a grocery store showed normal values in dollars on my income statement and expense bar chart, reflecting my actual local expenses in Vietnam so far. In that one problematic transaction, I saw a zero value (or actually a missing number) for the dollar value of the food component in the split transaction. I corrected that after I discovered it.***
> **
> *Be Well,***
> * ***
> *Scott*
> <<<< Scott Ellsworth || +1 (775) 386-2519 >>>>
> 
> ----- Original message -----
> From: Scott Ellsworth <scott at fastmail.us>
> To: john <jralls at ceridwen.us>
> Cc: GnuCash user forum <gnucash-user at gnucash.org>
> Subject: Re: [GNC] strange lack of exchange rates in a new currency cash account
> Date: Tuesday, July 25, 2023 08:34
> 
> <<<< Scott Ellsworth || +1 (775) 386-2519 >>>>
> 
> ----- Original message -----
> From: john <jralls at ceridwen.us>
> To: Scott Ellsworth <scott at fastmail.us>
> Cc: GnuCash user forum <gnucash-user at gnucash.org>
> Subject: Re: [GNC] strange lack of exchange rates in a new currency cash account
> Date: Tuesday, July 25, 2023 00:38
> 
> Your issues with the transfer dialog seem strange. I just tried a 2,000,000 transfer with a rate of 1/23600 in the dialog and got a value of 84.75. The decimal display on the right of the rate entry is 0.000042, but that's just because that display is limited to 6 decimal digits; GnuCash actually stores the number as 1/23600. i'll have to probe that some more to figure out what's going on.
> *I should mention that when doing ATM withdrawals I've always entered the actual amount I received instead of the exchange rate, since that keeps it accurate. I've done ATM withdrawals this way in ten other currencies so far in the past couple years, and have never had problems. but the Vietnamese dong is a very small unit of currency. I suppose if I had to enter the exchange rate instead, I'd have to calculate it pretty precisely and then watch carefully for discrepancies in the final amount. I'll probably try that for now.*
> 
> In the report the 0 or 1 prices in the transaction report are due to transaction currency: Notice that it's either $0.00 or ₫1.00. The latter transactions were started in the VND account so the transaction currency is VND, hence the price of  ₫1.00. The $0.00 is a display issue: The default price display is 2 more digits than the currency's smallest fraction, .00 for both USD and VND, so .0000, and 1/23600 rounded to 4 places is 0.
> *Okay, I overlooked that. So basically, $0.00 is for converting dollars to dong, while ₫1.00 is for my transactions in dong with no currency conversion.*
> 
> Be Well,
>  
> Scott
> 
> 
>> On Jul 23, 2023, at 22:02, Scott Ellsworth <scott at fastmail.us> wrote:
>> 
>> *Hi John,*
>> ----- Original message -----
>> From: john <jralls at ceridwen.us>
>> To: Scott Ellsworth <scott at fastmail.us>
>> Cc: GnuCash user forum <gnucash-user at gnucash.org>
>> Subject: Re: [GNC] strange lack of exchange rates in a new currency cash account
>> Date: Monday, July 24, 2023 02:09
>> > On Jul 23, 2023, at 03:11, Scott Ellsworth <scott at fastmail.us> wrote:
>> It works off the latest price in the pricedb. If that's 0 then so will be the home-currency values on the accounts page and in the summary bar.
>> Editing transactions won't change an entry in the pricedb. Only creating a transaction will, and then only if there isn't already a corresponding price for that day. That means that if you create the first transaction of the day with a zero price and immediately correct it you still have a 0 price in the pricedb that you have to manually fix or delete.
>> *Okay, that's good to know. I went into the Price Database and created a price entry for dong for today. I had not made any transactions before that today. When I went over to the Account Summary and refreshed the page, for the very first time so far it showed a non-zero value for my total dong cash: ₫1,232,000.00   $52.20. And when I created a **test transaction, it showed an exchange rate waiting for me for only the second time I've seen so far.*
>> 
>> Not in the register view, in Transaction report options on the Display page, but in light of your other answers I think that it's not necessary.
>> *Okay, I did that report and I'm sending a screenshot here. This might be a useful result, because it looks like it's showing an exchange rate of either 1 or 0 throughout. I don't understand that.***
>> **
>> *So far, it seems like I can enter an exchange rate in the Price Database but it hasn't taken my exchange rates that I enter into the register manually (which I always do because the exchange rate is blank). I have a hypothesis about this: I normally type "1/23600" in the exchange rate field for transactions. Perhaps the program automatically truncates the calculated values to four decimal places. When I added a price for today in the Price Database I tried typing it instead as "0.00004237" just in case it might make a difference. I think it still truncated it to six decimals, so "0.000042," but at least that registers as a normal exchange rate, even if it's less exact. So when I add money to my dong cash account by doing an ATM withdrawal, those exchange rates are calculating automatically because I always input the exact number of dong that I received. Maybe it calculated and truncated from that as well, giving me zeroes all the time. ***
>> **
>> *But the Transaction Report with binary exchange rates is still confusing to me. *
>> 
>> *Let me know what you suggest.***
>> **
>> *Kind Regards,***
>> ****
>> *Scott*
>> 
>> > 
>> > *Be Well,***
>> > * ***
>> > *Scott***
>> > <<<< Scott Ellsworth || +1 (775) 386-2519 >>>>
>> > On Jul 22, 2023, at 01:34, Scott Ellsworth <scott at fastmail.us> wrote:
>> >> 
>> >> Hi John,
>> >> 
>> >> Every transaction is big enough to equal more than one cent. And the dong cash register starts with an ATM withdrawal of 2 million dong. 
>> >> 
>> >> In the Price Database, which I was not familiar with before, I see three entries, two of which are at zero value. The Account Summary now shows "₫540,780.00 $0.00" but the transactions do usually have dollar equivalent values: When I look at my Food account I see that the most recent transactions were worth $1.18, $0.25, and $38.53. But I notice one transaction from the 19th, a split transaction where the Food component came out to zero and the number fields are simply blank on that line, not with zeroes shown. The other parts of the transaction were $6.19 spent from Assets:Cash:vn dong balanced against $3.18 spent on Expenses:Health, so the transaction obviously does not balance. When I go to the blank line for Expenses:Food and click on Jump, nothing happens. But when I go to the Cash:vn dong account and find that transaction, I see an amount for the food component, 549,000 dong, which was missing in the Food account.
>> >> 
>> >> This is confusing. I hope my file is not corrupted, since my financial data is important to me. And it's strange that even after I created a second dong cash account to test, the new account had the same exact problems.
>> >> 
>> >> Be Well,
>> >> 
>> >> Scott
>> >> <<<< Scott Ellsworth || +1 (775) 386-2519 >>>>
>> >> 
>> >> ----- Original message -----
>> >> From: john <jralls at ceridwen.us>
>> >> To: Scott Ellsworth <scott at fastmail.us>
>> >> Cc: GnuCash user forum <gnucash-user at gnucash.org>
>> >> Subject: Re: [GNC] strange lack of exchange rates in a new currency cash account
>> >> Date: Friday, July 21, 2023 23:24
>> >> 
>> >> Scott,
>> >> 
>> >> Did you perhaps get the balance to  2M VND in small increments so that the USD value of every transaction rounded to $0.00? That would have prevented the price from being recorded, resulting in the symptoms you describe. If you've been trying to use VND for several days you can look at the price database entries to see if any of the earlier transactions recorded prices.
>> >> 
>> >> Regards,
>> >> John Ralls
>> >> 
>> >>> On Jul 21, 2023, at 01:14, Scott Ellsworth <scott at fastmail.us> wrote:
>> >>> 
>> >>> Another strange thing: It might be starting to work normally now: I just entered a couple of transactions and accidentally entered the exchange rate as 23,600 instead of 1/23,6000. Now it's starting to show the dollar equivalent on the Account Summary, even after I went back and corrected the exchange rate on those two transactions. I'm not sure if it's fixed, but at least for right now it appears to be working normally again.
>> >>> 
>> >>> Be Well,
>> >>> 
>> >>> Scott
>> >>> <<<< Scott Ellsworth || +1 (775) 386-2519 >>>>
>> >>> 
>> >>> ----- Original message -----
>> >>> From: Scott Ellsworth <scott at fastmail.us>
>> >>> To: gnucash-user at gnucash.org
>> >>> Subject: strange lack of exchange rates in a new currency cash account
>> >>> Date: Friday, July 21, 2023 15:06
>> >>> 
>> >>> Dear fellow Gnucash users,
>> >>> 
>> >>> I have a strange problem with a new currency account that I just added the other day: I created a cash account for Vietnamese dong (VND), and somehow it's not working with exchange rates. The two strange things I'm noticing are:
>> >>> 1. Every time I create a new transaction in this account, I have to type in an exchange rate manually. (With other cash accounts (other than USD, my default currency) an exchange rate always is remembered from earlier transactions.)
>> >>> 2. On my Account Summary report, I see the new account, which I've named "vn dong" and placed under Assets > Cash, and the number of dong that I have in cash, but the US dollar equivalent always shows up as zero. (I use "Cash" as a placeholder account, under which I have all my cash currencies including US dollars, euros, Japanese yen, etc.) Right now, for example, it shows "₫2,080,870.00   $0.00" but in dollars that should be about $88.
>> >>> 
>> >>> I thought maybe the new account was somehow corrupted, so I tried creating a new one from scratch, but the same problem occurred again.
>> >>> 
>> >>> The one thing that is different about this currency compared to all others for which I have cash accounts is that it's very tiny: It's about 23,600 dong per US dollar. Is Gnucash not able to handle such extreme exchange rates?
>> >>> 
>> >>> Be Well,
>> >>> 
>> >>> Scott
>> >>> <<<< Scott Ellsworth || +1 (775) 386-2519 >>>>
>> >>> 
>> >>> _______________________________________________
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>> > 
>> > 
>> > Be Well,
>> > 
>> > Scott
>> > <<<< Scott Ellsworth || +1 (775) 386-2519 >>>>
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > gnucash-user mailing list
>> > gnucash-user at gnucash.org
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>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> <Screenshot from 2023-07-24 11-27-56.png>