[GNC] OFX transactional data downloads from FDIC insured banks

Thu Jun 1 09:15:49 EDT 2023

Completely concur. 

Need of one seems to overpower need of the many… opposite of what Spock (Leonard Nimoy) said in Wrath of Khan -- the Star Trek motion picture. 

From: David Carlson <david.carlson.417 at gmail.com> 
Sent: Sunday, May 28, 2023 2:55 PM
To: Kalpesh Patel <kalpesh.patel at usa.net>
Cc: Brad Morrison <bradmorrison at sonic.net>; gnucash-user at gnucash.org; fdxmemberservices at financialdataexchange.org; fdxsupport at financialdataexchange.org
Subject: Re: [GNC] OFX transactional data downloads from FDIC insured banks

Too many of us Americans have forgotten about core values like teamwork, compromise, morality...

On Sun, May 28, 2023 at 1:06 PM Kalpesh Patel <kalpesh.patel at usa.net <mailto:kalpesh.patel at usa.net> > wrote:

See responses in-line (with 'KP -->' line) ...

-----Original Message-----
From: Brad Morrison <bradmorrison at sonic.net <mailto:bradmorrison at sonic.net> > 
Sent: Saturday, May 27, 2023 2:15 PM
To: gnucash-user at gnucash.org <mailto:gnucash-user at gnucash.org> 
Cc: fdxmemberservices at financialdataexchange.org <mailto:fdxmemberservices at financialdataexchange.org> ; fdxsupport at financialdataexchange.org <mailto:fdxsupport at financialdataexchange.org> 
Subject: Re: [GNC] OFX transactional data downloads from FDIC insured banks

Aha, thanks Kalpesh! I did not understand the technical differences between OFX (https://financialdataexchange.org/ofx &
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Open_Financial_Exchange) & QFX (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/QFX_(file_format)).

So based on what you are highlighting here, GnuCash does NOT typically have issues importing downloaded QFX files (nor downloaded OFX files) and the main differences in GnuCash between OFX & QFX are the ability to directly connect to your financial institution using OFX Direct Connect
- correct?

KP-->For this truly it has never not worked in many years. GNC technically uses OFX format for Direct Connect, but for import OFX and QFX are treated equally. Direct Connect and import process are two distinct and un-joined operation in GNC although they may share the same libraries call in the back-end to parse the data.

https://wiki.gnucash.org/wiki/OFX_Direct_Connect_Bank_Settings & https://wiki.gnucash.org/wiki/Setting_up_OFXDirectConnect

If so, searching for a bank that specifically allows OFX transactional data downloads may just be pursuing open source only for the sake of being open source and may not be relevant to many GnuCash users. I have been surprised at how many people on this mailing list still use Windows and Mac OSs, but what do I know...

KP-->In short, yes. At the end of the day banks are doing so as result of what makes the most money for them and that means attracting variety of customers including customers that utilize personal financial management application with Intuit Quicken and defunct MS Money being the earliest pioneers. They sort of created the standard which has been ingrained in many bank's offering for many moons as nothing else existed for very long time, thus quite a good deal of them continue to offer OFX format to be widely compatible or it has been there and working so why bother ripping it out. Windows or Mac OS doesn’t have anything to do with the download offering. There are some that have gone from the open source to proprietary direction (Schwab did that few years back where only connection from Quicken infrastructure is permitted to download data in OFX format. Of course this most likely involves money being exchange between the parties to become closed eco system). Typically large banks have enough staff and IP to be able to offer it themselves from in-house while other regional smaller banks who outsource their platform to third parties also offer them because they can tout it as a feature available to Banks to offer to customers.      

https://financialdataexchange.org/ofx - this OFX Work group page does not appear to have been updated since my May 18 email (below), so I will cc the FDX email addresses I found once again. Silicon Valley Bank is still listed as a "Active OFX solution providers participant" although SVB does still seem to exist as a division of First Citizens Bank (https://www.svb.com/). And 2020 is still listed as the copyright year for FDX at the bottom...

KP-->Sadly OFX is dying by thousands cuts as newer and better APIs have become available that provide better fidelity, along with security, of data as part of the innovation from Internet coming together. Bank of America and Chase are in this boat. Also there is continent divide as well. The US has languished behind in standardization innovation behind the EU,  hence GNC offering multiple types of import.  

I will look more into Plaid later -
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plaid_Inc.

Thanks,

Brad

On 5/22/23 11:21, Kalpesh Patel wrote:
> I can confirm thathttps://www.chase.com/ <http://www.chase.com/>   provides download of accounts (credit card, checking or saving) in QFX format from their web site. At one Chase even provided direct connect OFX download via an API call which they shuttered in 2022. If you have Plaid then you can go to Plaid+ subscription to download somewhat delayed transaction in OFX format for number of financial institutions that do not provided direct connect OFX mechanism.
>
> QFX format is proprietary of Intuit which contains colon separated key-value paired header information at the beginning of the file (like below) and then the standard XML OFX data payload:
>
> OFXHEADER:100
> DATA:OFXSGML
> VERSION:102
> SECURITY:NONE
> ENCODING:USASCII
> CHARSET:1252
> COMPRESSION:NONE
> OLDFILEUID:NONE
> NEWFILEUID:NONE
>
> OFX importer in GNC simply ignores this header information hence it is quite often refers to as one and same in the GNC context.
>
>   
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Brad Morrison<bradmorrison at sonic.net <mailto:bradmorrison at sonic.net> >
> Sent: Sunday, May 21, 2023 11:03 AM
> To:gnucash-user at gnucash.org <mailto:To%3Agnucash-user at gnucash.org> 
> Subject: [GNC] OFX transactional data downloads from FDIC insured 
> banks
>
> Hi Stephen/Bob/Gyle/all,
>
> Gyle: I emailed Bask Bank (customersupport at baskbank.com <mailto:customersupport at baskbank.com> ), Presidential Bank (email at presidential.com <mailto:email at presidential.com> ), & CIT Bank (service at cit.com <mailto:service at cit.com> ) on Thursday, May 18 at about 7 PM PST and have not heard back from any of them yet (CIT did send an automated response immediately). We will see what they say.
>
> Bob: I made a comment on Huntington Bank's Facebook page
> (https://www.facebook.com/HuntingtonBank/) about 15 minutes ago because they do not seem to have email customer service options on the Contact Us page on their website (https://www.huntington.com/customer-service/contact-us). We will see what they say.
>
> Stephen: you said "JP Morgan Chase Bank provides OFX/QFX format downloads of Checking and Savings Accounts" do you meanhttps://www.jpmorganchase.com/ <http://www.jpmorganchase.com/>   orhttps://www.jpmorgan.com/global <http://www.jpmorgan.com/global>   orhttps://www.chase.com/ <http://www.chase.com/>   or something else? JPM is an enormous financial institution (https://www.google.com/finance/quote/JPM:NYSE) and I don't know where to direct my inquiries.
>
> In addition, my understanding is that there is a difference between 
> OFX
> (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Open_Financial_Exchange) and QFX (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/QFX_(file_format)), but it seems like many people are lumping them together - ?
>
> My standard ask goes something like this:
>
> "Hi,
>
> I use GnuCash (https://gnucash.org/), an open source accounting 
> software. Does ____ Bank allow transactional data to be downloaded in 
> the OFX file format 
> (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Open_Financial_Exchange  &
> https://financialdataexchange.org/ofx) or does ____Bank only allow proprietary/patented/corporate file formats (like QFX, owned by Intuit) for transactional data downloads?
>
> Thank you,
>
> Brad"
>
> I changed the email subject title from the "Tax report options (flywire)" one as the conversation only went in this direction and Alex Aycinena,nor anyone else, added to what I was saying about the tax data format options (see emails below).
>
> Thank you for your help in this project!
>
> Brad
>
>
> On 5/19/23 12:41, Gyle McCollam wrote:
>> Bob,
>> You replied to me only.  I was replying to Brad.  You should use reply all so that your reply goes to the list.
>>
>>
>> Thank You,
>>
>> Gyle McCollam
>>
>> Gyle McCollam
>>
>> gmccollam at live.com <mailto:gmccollam at live.com> <mailto:gmccollam at gyleshomes.com <mailto:gmccollam at gyleshomes.com> >             email
>>
>> ________________________________
>> From: Bob Crochelt<rfc56 at fastmail.com <mailto:rfc56 at fastmail.com> >
>> Sent: Friday, May 19, 2023 2:02 PM
>> To: Gyle McCollam<gmccollam at live.com <mailto:gmccollam at live.com> >
>> Subject: Re: [GNC] Tax report options (flywire)
>>
>> Hi:
>> Huntington Bank offers OFX/QFX for checking and savings, but not AFAIK CD's.
>> HTH
>> Bob Crochelt
>>
>> On Thu, May 18, 2023 at 03:48:18PM +0000, Gyle McCollam wrote:
>>> Brad,
>>> As fr as banks with FDIC Insurance and OFX/QFX downloads, I can think of 3 off the top of my head.  Presidential Bank in MD, good rate, but only on the 1st $25,000 in checking with conditions.  2nd, Bask Bank/Texas Capital, limited to 2 savings accounts and CDs.  Last. but not least CIT Bank (not CITI).  I'm sure there are many others and even if they only offer CSV downloads, that is almost as easy once you've done it once.
>>>
>>>
>>> Thank You,
>>>
>>> Gyle McCollam
>>>
>>> Gyle McCollam
>>>
>>> gmccollam at live.com <mailto:gmccollam at live.com> <mailto:gmccollam at gyleshomes.com <mailto:gmccollam at gyleshomes.com> >             email
>>>
>>> ________________________________
>>> From: gnucash-user<gnucash-user-bounces+gylemc=gmail.com at gnucash.org <mailto:gmail.com at gnucash.org> >   
>>> on behalf of Brad Morrison<bradmorrison at sonic.net <mailto:bradmorrison at sonic.net> >
>>> Sent: Thursday, May 18, 2023 5:56 AM
>>> To:gnucash-user at gnucash.org <mailto:To%3Agnucash-user at gnucash.org>    <gnucash-user at gnucash.org <mailto:gnucash-user at gnucash.org> >  
>>> Cc:fdxmemberservices at financialdataexchange.org <mailto:Cc%3Afdxmemberservices at financialdataexchange.org>    
>>> <fdxmemberservices at financialdataexchange.org <mailto:fdxmemberservices at financialdataexchange.org> >;fdxsupport at financialda
>>> t aexchange.org <http://aexchange.org> <fdxsupport at financialdataexchange.org <mailto:fdxsupport at financialdataexchange.org> >
>>> Subject: Re: [GNC] Tax report options (flywire)
>>>
>>> Hi Alex/all,
>>>
>>> Thank you for the overarching explanations about how GnuCash Tax 
>>> Report Options work and some of the issues behind that.
>>>
>>> As I covered in my April 25 post
>>> (https://lists.gnucash.org/pipermail/gnucash-user/2023-April/106671.
>>> h tml), I have been trying to find US based FDIC insured banks that 
>>> allow for transactional data to be downloaded in the OFX file format 
>>> (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Open_Financial_Exchange). I have 
>>> still not been able to find any that do, so I dug a bit deeper (the 
>>> ICBA and several other banking associations did not respond to my
>>> inquiries) and noticed that the Financial Data Exchange group that 
>>> hosts the "OFX Work Group" (https://financialdataexchange.org/ofx)
>>> seems to be quite out of date (copyright date at the bottom lists
>>> 2020 as the year, 2019 is the last date on the timeline, etc.). The 
>>> Financial Data Exchange homepage
>>> (https://financialdataexchange.org/) looks better maintained and 
>>> seems to have several news items from the last month, but also has 
>>> that 2020 copyright date at the bottom. FDX also has this Tax Data 
>>> Exchange section 
>>> (https://financialdataexchange.org/FDX/FDX/US-Tax/US-Tax-Forms.aspx?
>>> h
>>> key=00bae613-7ec8-4c93-8e37-4712f09ae255)
>>> under the "Resources" tab, but it also looks a bit stale. You may be 
>>> able to parse the technical information there better than I can, but 
>>> it might be worth a look as that Tax Data Exchange page also seems 
>>> to acknowledge what you are saying about TXF code being abandoned 
>>> ("Standards-based JSON files are superior to both CSV and TXF files 
>>> CSV files require proprietary programs to process. Documentation and 
>>> support of the TXF standard has dwindled and has now been 
>>> fully-replaced by new
>>> standards.")
>>>
>>> I do not know if GnuCash is already a member of FDX, but that maybe 
>>> something to consider...?
>>>
>>> Brad
>>>
>>> On 5/17/23 12:08, Alex Aycinena wrote:
>>>> On Wed, May 17, 2023 at 9:00 AM<gnucash-user-request at gnucash.org <mailto:gnucash-user-request at gnucash.org> >    wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
>>>>> From: flywire<flywire0 at gmail.com <mailto:flywire0 at gmail.com> >
>>>>> To: Gnucash Users<gnucash-user at gnucash.org <mailto:gnucash-user at gnucash.org> >
>>>>> Cc:
>>>>> Bcc:
>>>>> Date: Wed, 17 May 2023 17:17:45 +1000
>>>>> Subject: Re: [GNC] Tax report options 
>>>>> https://lists.gnucash.org/pipermail/gnucash-user/2023-May/107018.h
>>>>> t
>>>>> ml
>>>>> flywire wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> It is a spreadsheet process to add share/franking credits to 
>>>>>> etf/franking credits (Distribution:13Q) and similar for capital 
>>>>>> gains
>>>>>> (Distribution:18H:18A) since the components are the same tax item.
>>>>>> Any thoughts of how I could sum them in reports from different account trees?
>>>>>>
>>>>> lol In the heat of the moment preparing tax I'd never thought of 
>>>>> just transferring the total to the main account for that item.
>>>>>
>>>>> https://lists.gnucash.org/pipermail/gnucash-user/2023-May/107020.h
>>>>> t
>>>>> ml
>>>>> flywire wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> ...there are 13 annual returns
>>>>>>
>>>>> To be clear, the items on the return map to different tax codes, 
>>>>> eg franking credits is 13Q on a personal return and 8D on a trust 
>>>>> return. I'd expect a table would need to be maintained for each 
>>>>> return type. Australian codes hardly change over time which likely 
>>>>> means there would be no active maintenance.
>>>>>
>>>>> Is it as simple as just using a unique tax code as account code 
>>>>> and then reporting by account code? (Assume one return type.)
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>> Some questions have been asked about  Tax Report Options in the 
>>>> past couple of weeks. I have been away and not able to respond or 
>>>> make comments. Let me make these points, which may not necessarily 
>>>> apply to this thread, but to others (sorry):
>>>>
>>>> - The Tax Report Options and associated US Income Tax Report are 
>>>> only intended to be used for US Income Taxes.
>>>>
>>>> - Some time ago, someone in Germany used the US version and made 
>>>> adjustments for use in Germany; I'm not familiar with that and 
>>>> don't know if it works and is being maintained.
>>>>
>>>> - Initially it was intended primarily to generate a file that could 
>>>> be uploaded to Income Tax Preparation software (and a report was 
>>>> sort of
>>>> secondary) and so a key element of the design was the use of TXF 
>>>> codes that the Tax software could understand; the specification for 
>>>> those codes was abandoned some time ago so the ability to expand 
>>>> the system is not there unless we invented our own new TXF code (ugh!).
>>>>
>>>> - That is why there is nothing for Form 1116.
>>>>
>>>> - If someone wanted to do what was done for Germany for another 
>>>> jurisdiction, they would have to deal with this TXF issue; I 
>>>> certainly don't recommend trying it.
>>>>
>>>> - The US version could/should be re-written to not depend on TXF 
>>>> codes but this would not be trivial.
>>>>
>>>> - One can use the 'No Tax code' tag to include accounts on the US 
>>>> Income Tax Report, just not sorted by Form/Schedule; you could use 
>>>> the account name and/or description for that purpose for those 
>>>> accounts to give you totals (example: for Form 1116).
>>>>
>>>> - The system assumes that each 'book' (i.e., gnucash file) is for 
>>>> one reporting entity (individual, partnership, corporation, etc.) 
>>>> and that one file is not used to track the accounts of more than 
>>>> one tax reporting entity.
>>>>
>>>> - You can certainly use your account structure design and other 
>>>> available reports to get your tax information without using this 
>>>> system; in fact, if you use this system, you have to carefully 
>>>> design your account structure and do careful data entry to get the report to be useful.
>>>>
>>>> Alex
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> gnucash-user mailing list
>>>> gnucash-user at gnucash.org <mailto:gnucash-user at gnucash.org> 
>>>> To update your subscription preferences or to unsubscribe:
>>>> https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-user
>>>> -----
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>>>> You can do this by using Reply-To-List or Reply-All.
>>>>
>

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