[GNC] Invoice system and Deffered Income (Sergey Mende)
davidvernonlong at gmail.com
davidvernonlong at gmail.com
Tue May 30 10:11:21 EDT 2023
Hi Sergey,
I am not a tech guy, but I am an accountant. The advice I gave you was to
allow you to do something technically which fitted your requirement for
"deferred income", but I would not wish to operate an accounting system that
way myself.
Typically, in the situation you describe, when a customer is late paying,
you do not have to treat the invoice differently. You create a bad debt
provision ( Credit bad debt provision in liabilities and Debit bad debts in
expenses) outside the invoicing procedures. You do it directly in the
accounts. Its only when you know the customer will never pay that you need
to write the invoice off. The way to do this would be to process a payment,
but instead of selecting a bank account, you select the Bad debt provision
you already set up which will then give you the following entry (credit
account receivables and Debit the bad debt provision) .
However, that would leave you with a sales revenue and a bad debt expense in
your income statement, which is not quite what you wanted to do, as your
requirement was never to show the income for an unpaid invoice. This
requirement is very unusual. I would recommend the typical accounting I
describe, because GNU Cash is built to work that way, as are all accounting
systems, and you will make life much easier for yourself with less work.
Obviously though, I know nothing about your business, and your method might
be correct for you. However, in many tax jurisdictions you would have a
problem. For example, sales tax (like VAT) which has to be accounted for as
soon as you invoice a customer and cannot be deferred.
Hope this helps.
David
Hi, David,
yes, probably this is a more convenient option in my case as when a
customer does not pay an invoice before the due date, I still have to deal
with such invoice differently, by posting it to the bad debt asset and take
further actions (all these invoices for the services being provided, so
they are must to pay until a customer clearly terminates subscription). So
unposting is unavoidable in a sense and could be done for both scenarios,
when a customer pays in time and when she does not. Perhaps, I just need to
thoroughly set up the accounts structure.
Thank you,
Sergey
On Tue, May 30, 2023 at 5:01?AM <davidvernonlong at gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi,
>
> I wonder if a simple way is that when you create an invoice, you then post
> it for some distant time in the future. After all, at some date in the
> future it should become income, it's only a question of time. . That way,
> when you run an income statement for year to date, I guess you will not
see
> the income. Then when the customer pays, you unpost the invoice and then
> post it using the date of payment.
>
> If eventually, if the customer never pays, you could just unpost the
> invoice.
>
> II think that might work, but not sure if its exactly what you want. Seems
> too simple though.
-----Original Message-----
From: gnucash-user
<gnucash-user-bounces+davidvernonlong=gmail.com at gnucash.org> On Behalf Of
gnucash-user-request at gnucash.org
Sent: Tuesday, May 30, 2023 8:50 PM
To: gnucash-user at gnucash.org
Subject: gnucash-user Digest, Vol 242, Issue 72
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Today's Topics:
1. Re: gunzip test.gnucash fails (R Losey)
2. Re: Revisiting Quotes (Bruce Schuck) (Bruce Schuck)
3. Re: Revisiting Quotes (Bruce Schuck) (Bruce Schuck)
4. Re: Invoice system and Deffered Income (Michael or Penny Novack)
5. Re: Invoice system and Deffered Income (Sergey Mende)
6. Re: Invoice system and Deffered Income (Sergey Mende)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Message: 1
Date: Mon, 29 May 2023 23:17:26 -0500
From: R Losey <rlosey at gmail.com>
To: tydeman.fred at gmail.com
Cc: Ken Farley <farleykj at gmail.com>, gnucash-user at gnucash.org
Subject: Re: [GNC] gunzip test.gnucash fails
Message-ID:
<CAGQ=FyhvCtNeZ-GWsA0q5hJqDUD5Ei378RYpvnByYW=R14cMeg at mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
So I looked up the gzip/gunzip command; the -S "" option will allow it to
work on any file (it basically ignores the 'suffix')
Thus, you should be able to do
gunzip -S "" test.gnucash
On Sun, May 28, 2023 at 10:21?AM Fred Tydeman <tydeman.fred at gmail.com>
wrote:
> On Sun, May 28, 2023 at 4:20?AM Ken Farley <farleykj at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > Where did you get the impression that you could use gunzip to
> > uncompress the files?
> >
>
> A previous message about mass change of stock price source used gunzip
> as part of that process. But, in rereading that message, I see that I
> missed that ".gz" was added to the file name.
>
>
> > To "uncompress" the file you need to change your preferences in
> > Gnucash to turn off "Compress Files", then save your file. This will
> > make the file uncompressed.
> >
>
> I expected to find that option in: File: Properties Instead, I found
> it in: Edit: Preferences: General Anyway, changing it did get me a
> plain text file that I could edit.
> Thanks.
>
> After doing my mass edit of changing the security namespace, I also
> did: Actions: Check & Repair: Check & Repair All
> _______________________________________________
> gnucash-user mailing list
> gnucash-user at gnucash.org
> To update your subscription preferences or to unsubscribe:
> https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-user
> -----
> Please remember to CC this list on all your replies.
> You can do this by using Reply-To-List or Reply-All.
>
--
_________________________________
Richard Losey
rlosey at gmail.com
Micah 6:8
------------------------------
Message: 2
Date: Mon, 29 May 2023 21:23:40 -0700
From: Bruce Schuck <bschuck at asgard-systems.com>
To: Colin Arndt <colinfarndt at gmail.com>
Cc: gnucash-user at gnucash.org
Subject: Re: [GNC] Revisiting Quotes (Bruce Schuck)
Message-ID: <ba6611d5-d25f-4fd5-1765-bc1468910c2d at asgard-systems.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed
On 5/29/23 7:41 PM, Colin Arndt wrote:
> Thanks for all your work to keep up this past month. The latest 1.56
> update fixes price retrieval within GnuCash.
>> This means modules will need to be rewritten to parse the HTML.
>> Doable, but not as simple as parsing JSON.
> There is an excellent python module ?yfinance? which does exactly
> this - scrapes price data from Yahoo!?s website. This might not be of
> any use because it?s written in python instead of Perl, but
> nonetheless wanted to make sure you?re aware of it.
Colin,
While I would confirm if the Python source is grabbing the normal web
page or the API calls we use(d) in F::Q, this did give me the idea to
search CPAN. I found the module Yahoo::Finance which may also be a good
start and possibly does the heavy lifting already.
Thanks a bunch for the info!
Bruce S.
------------------------------
Message: 3
Date: Mon, 29 May 2023 22:32:19 -0700
From: Bruce Schuck <bschuck at asgard-systems.com>
To: Colin Arndt <colinfarndt at gmail.com>
Cc: gnucash-user at gnucash.org
Subject: Re: [GNC] Revisiting Quotes (Bruce Schuck)
Message-ID: <6e8da5e5-3360-0d2b-a20d-a5c69b7245b8 at asgard-systems.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed
> While I would confirm if the Python source is grabbing the normal
> webpage or the API calls we use(d) in F::Q, this did give me the idea
> to search CPAN. I found the module Yahoo::Finance which may also be a
> good start and possibly does the heavy lifting already.
Colin,
The Yahoo::Finance Perl module is based on the
https://query2.finance.yahoo.com/v7/... URL. So it's currently broken.
Looking at the source for the yfinance Python library, it uses a couple
different Yahoo URLs including at least one instance of a
https://query2.finance.yahoo.com/v10/... URL.
Which means that if Yahoo blocks access to the v10 and v11 URLs, both
Finance::Quote::YahooJSON and yfinance will break.
It was worth a look though.
As I said, extracting the data from the HTML returned from
https://finance.yahoo.com/quote/AAPL?p=AAPL&.tsrc=fin-srch is doable.
Just not as simple as parsing JSON. I recently created the
Finance::Quote::BVB module to replace a broken module of a different
name for Romanian stocks. It is a web scrape of the HTML.
Thanks.
Bruce S.
------------------------------
Message: 4
Date: Tue, 30 May 2023 08:30:05 -0400
From: Michael or Penny Novack <stepbystepfarm at comcast.net>
To: gnucash-user at gnucash.org
Subject: Re: [GNC] Invoice system and Deffered Income
Message-ID: <f9ce3c88-0e0d-d2d4-8b5e-2c969e16deef at comcast.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed
On 5/29/2023 5:44 PM, Sergey Mende wrote:
> Hi there,
> I am trying to figure out if the existing customer invoice system is
> suitable for my needs.
> For simplicity, let's say I have the following accounts:
>
> Current (Bank)
> Undetermined Income (Income, for bank account transactions just imported
> from the online banking)
> Deferred Income (Income, used at invoice creation to track invoices that
> are posted and sent to the customers but not paid yet)
> Income (for invoices that got paid, so the payment actually received as a
> bank transaction and processed as a payment of an invoice)
> Receivable (A/Receivable, for tracking invoices)
No, sorry, but the invoices are part of the business system and only for
use with accrual basis accounting. Can't be used for cash basis
accounting, which is what I sense you are thinking about when you see
":receivables" as "deferred". You will been to familiarize yourself? of
the differences between accrual basis accounting and cash basis accounting.
In accrual based accounting, the "income" is earned when the invoice is
sent, the customer legally obligated to pay and? the amount goes into an
asset account "receivables". When the customer later actually pays (you
mark it paid) that gets transferred to cash (you bank account). If you
don't think of "receivables" as real money, look up what a "factor"
does. In other words, "receivables" might be collateral for a loan or
even sold.
Michael D Novack
PS: When some of us are using the term "deferred income" it is in the
context of tax sheltered retirement accounts. Things like IRAs and 401Ks
(but money going into Roth IRA is after tax, would not be deferred
income). Thus I might have a 401K through work allowing me to
contribute? before tax income up to the regulated limit with the
employer matching up to 3% of salary. In other words, were I selecting
5% of my salary to go into the 401K THAT would be deferred income and so
would the 3% matched by the employer. Not escaping income tax, just
deferring it till after retirement as distributions are taken form the
401K.
------------------------------
Message: 5
Date: Tue, 30 May 2023 15:35:34 +0300
From: Sergey Mende <sergey at mende.spb.ru>
To: davidvernonlong at gmail.com
Cc: gnucash-user at gnucash.org
Subject: Re: [GNC] Invoice system and Deffered Income
Message-ID:
<CAEsLG68-=QYtveFA-GR0Fw1gONTkOiX=HkXuq+P63tc1ZhCqgA at mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
Hi, David,
yes, probably this is a more convenient option in my case as when a
customer does not pay an invoice before the due date, I still have to deal
with such invoice differently, by posting it to the bad debt asset and take
further actions (all these invoices for the services being provided, so
they are must to pay until a customer clearly terminates subscription). So
unposting is unavoidable in a sense and could be done for both scenarios,
when a customer pays in time and when she does not. Perhaps, I just need to
thoroughly set up the accounts structure.
Thank you,
Sergey
On Tue, May 30, 2023 at 5:01?AM <davidvernonlong at gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi,
>
> I wonder if a simple way is that when you create an invoice, you then post
> it for some distant time in the future. After all, at some date in the
> future it should become income, it's only a question of time. . That way,
> when you run an income statement for year to date, I guess you will not
see
> the income. Then when the customer pays, you unpost the invoice and then
> post it using the date of payment.
>
> If eventually, if the customer never pays, you could just unpost the
> invoice.
>
> II think that might work, but not sure if its exactly what you want. Seems
> too simple though.
>
> David
>
> > Hi there,
> > I am trying to figure out if the existing customer invoice system is
> > suitable for my needs.
> > For simplicity, let's say I have the following accounts:
> >
> > Current (Bank)
> > Undetermined Income (Income, for bank account transactions just
> > imported from the online banking) Deferred Income (Income, used at
> > invoice creation to track invoices that are posted and sent to the
> > customers but not paid yet) Income (for invoices that got paid, so the
> > payment actually received as a bank transaction and processed as a
> > payment of an invoice) Receivable (A/Receivable, for tracking
> > invoices)
> >
> > The problem is that I don't like to see non-paid invoice splits in the
> > Income Register until the invoice payment arrives to my bank account,
> > imported and processed as invoice payment.
> >
> > The idea is to assign an incoming imported transaction as a payment
> > for an invoice from the Bank account Register and change the Income
> > account appropriately, so the paid invoice appears in the Income
> > Register
> >
> > As I got from the docs, this mailing list and my experiments, there is
> > no way to change the Income account after the Invoice has been posted
> > and specifically at the payment processing step.
> >
> > Am I missing something?
> >
> > Thank you,
> > Sergey
>
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: gnucash-user
> <gnucash-user-bounces+davidvernonlong=gmail.com at gnucash.org> On Behalf Of
> gnucash-user-request at gnucash.org
> Sent: Tuesday, May 30, 2023 8:06 AM
> To: gnucash-user at gnucash.org
> Subject: gnucash-user Digest, Vol 242, Issue 70
>
> Send gnucash-user mailing list submissions to
> gnucash-user at gnucash.org
>
> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
> https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-user
> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
> gnucash-user-request at gnucash.org
>
> You can reach the person managing the list at
> gnucash-user-owner at gnucash.org
>
> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than
> "Re: Contents of gnucash-user digest..."
>
>
> Today's Topics:
>
> 1. Re: Revisiting Quotes (Bruce Schuck)
> 2. Problem with using Python with version 5.1 (Bob Reite)
> 3. Re: experience using Alpha Vantage (John Layman)
> 4. Re: Finance::Quote Quote Throttling (John Layman)
> 5. Invoice system and Deffered Income (Sergey Mende)
> 6. Re: Problem with using Python with version 5.1 (Jon Schewe)
> 7. Finance-Quote 1.56 released! (Bruce Schuck)
> 8. Last Num Bug(s) ?? (viking2ev at san.rr.com)
> 9. Re: Finance-Quote 1.56 released! (WR D)
> 10. Updated: Last Num Bug(s) ?? (viking2ev at san.rr.com)
> 11. Re: Finance-Quote 1.56 released! (Bruce Schuck)
> 12. Re: Invoice system and Deffered Income (Vincent Dawans)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Mon, 29 May 2023 14:31:55 -0700
> From: Bruce Schuck <bschuck at asgard-systems.com>
> To: gnucash-user at gnucash.org
> Subject: Re: [GNC] Revisiting Quotes
> Message-ID: <4c6d310d-9e3b-309f-ff21-dd550cf5a3e9 at asgard-systems.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed
>
> On Thu May 25, 2023 at 14:59:14 EDT R Losey wrote:
>
> > From the discussion here, one would get the idea that the only two
> > options for quotes are Alphavantage and Yahoo/JSON... don't the other
> > options work? I seem to remember seeing a very long list of options.
> Most of the other modules retrieve data for non-US based securities, or
> specific funds such as TSP.pm for data from https://www.tsp.gov/.
> Fool.pm is one that probably just needs someone to spend a little time
> investigating why it no longer works, but it could be a viable
alternative.
>
> People either forget or don't realize that companies like AlphaVantage,
> Yahoo, Alphabet (aka Google), and others pay for the stock market data
> available on their websites or through APIs. Along with what is likely a a
> large cost, there are license limitations on how they may make that data
> available to others. This would be the reason AlphaVantage has limits
> placed
> on access using the free API key, and probably why Yahoo has been blocking
> access to long utilized URLs/APIs. I fully expect the new URL for Yahoo in
> coming F::Q release 1.56 to get blocked at some point. Maybe a few months,
> maybe a year, but I would bet on it.
>
> This means modules will need to be rewritten to parse the HTML. Doable,
but
> not as simple as parsing JSON.
>
> Bruce S.
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Sun, 28 May 2023 12:55:29 -0400
> From: Bob Reite <br at telcen.com>
> To: gnucash-user at gnucash.org
> Subject: [GNC] Problem with using Python with version 5.1
> Message-ID: <857996fd-7251-f03b-cac1-92d79971854d at telcen.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed
>
> I am trying to run python scripts to import data from Quickbooks, but I
get
> the following error:
>
> ImportError: No module named gnucash.
>
> Phthon3-guncash is installed.
>
> System is Linux Mint 20 Ulyana
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 3
> Date: Sat, 27 May 2023 08:09:23 -0400
> From: "John Layman" <john.layman at laymanandlayman.com>
> To: "'David G. Pickett'" <dgpickett at aol.com>,
> <gnucash-user at gnucash.org>
> Subject: Re: [GNC] experience using Alpha Vantage
> Message-ID: <000001d99094$141d89e0$3c589da0$@laymanandlayman.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
>
> Mostly, no. I'm getting few mutual fund returns. But misses are only
> sporadically logged. That makes me wonder if stale quotes are being
> delivered. But it also makes me wonder if I've been tuned out and am
> unaware that a secret handshake is now needed.
>
> I don't fetch prices automatically, but typically download around 6 AM. I
> also run an Excel spreadsheet that fetches quotes from Refinitiv using the
> Stocks data type. That has its own issues as some newer mutual fund
> tickers
> aren't recognized.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: gnucash-user <gnucash-user-bounces+john.layman=ieee.org at gnucash.org>
> On Behalf Of David G. Pickett via gnucash-user
> Sent: Friday, May 26, 2023 4:42 PM
> To: gnucash-user at gnucash.org
> Subject: Re: [GNC] experience using Alpha Vantage
>
> I have seen it fumble, too, not sure if it is FQ or AA. Funds do their
nav
> some time after 4 eastern, so I do my quotes on cron at midnight. This
> also
> means the 6 minute run time is not a problem. But silently lost quotes
> seems like a bad behavior. Does the code log when the price fetch fails a
> AA? It certainly did with Yahoo!
> _______________________________________________
> gnucash-user mailing list
> gnucash-user at gnucash.org
> To update your subscription preferences or to unsubscribe:
> https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-user
> -----
> Please remember to CC this list on all your replies.
> You can do this by using Reply-To-List or Reply-All.
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 4
> Date: Mon, 29 May 2023 08:21:17 -0400
> From: "John Layman" <john.layman at laymanandlayman.com>
> To: "'Bruce Schuck'" <bschuck at asgard-systems.com>,
> <gnucash-user at gnucash.org>
> Subject: Re: [GNC] Finance::Quote Quote Throttling
> Message-ID: <000801d99228$12441860$36cc4920$@laymanandlayman.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>
> Where AlphaVantage is concerned, the problem for me is not the throttling.
> It's the missing mutual fund prices. I would consider purchasing a
premium
> key for those. But, hey, except for want of spare time, I could develop a
> screen scrape of data I already have in Yahoo and get the same result for
> free.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: gnucash-user <gnucash-user-bounces+john.layman=ieee.org at gnucash.org>
> On Behalf Of Bruce Schuck
> Sent: Sunday, May 28, 2023 5:07 PM
> To: gnucash-user at gnucash.org
> Subject: [GNC] Finance::Quote Quote Throttling
>
> I was wondering if any GnuCash users pay for a premium key from a data
> source like AlphaVantage? Or would some of you be more inclined to
purchase
> premium keys from the vendors if Finance::Quote was able to optionally
> by-pass its throttling mechanisms?
>
> I am gauging if the interest is enough to justify the effort although I
> think it is a nice feature to add at some point.
>
> Reply here or add to the F::Q discussion thread at
>
>
https://github.com/finance-quote/finance-quote/discussions/274#discussioncom
> ment-6014874
>
<https://github.com/finance-quote/finance-quote/discussions/274#discussionco
mment-6014874>
>
> Bruce S.
> _______________________________________________
> gnucash-user mailing list
> gnucash-user at gnucash.org
> To update your subscription preferences or to unsubscribe:
> https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-user
> -----
> Please remember to CC this list on all your replies.
> You can do this by using Reply-To-List or Reply-All.
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 5
> Date: Tue, 30 May 2023 00:44:50 +0300
> From: Sergey Mende <sergey at mende.spb.ru>
> To: gnucash-user at gnucash.org
> Subject: [GNC] Invoice system and Deffered Income
> Message-ID:
> <CAEsLG68+yf1k6XPpb3-0=
> 2ez2V+AqOrixbaTTeDA3-XiiZeztA at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
>
> [GNC] Invoice system and Deffered Income
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 6
> Date: Mon, 29 May 2023 16:48:36 -0500
> From: Jon Schewe <jpschewe at mtu.net>
> To: Bob Reite <br at telcen.com>, gnucash-user at gnucash.org
> Subject: Re: [GNC] Problem with using Python with version 5.1
> Message-ID: <7e3609ec256a29a1f99c89dbecb002cbbb9ce55e.camel at mtu.net>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
>
> Bob,
>
> Did you install GnuCash using Flatpak or via a deb file??
> Also are you certain that you're executing "python3" and not "python",
> which
> may execute python2.
>
> This is what I see on Ubuntu 22.?
> >apt list --installed '*gnucash*'
> Listing... Done
> gnucash-common/jammy,now 1:4.8-1build2 all [installed]
> gnucash-docs/jammy,now 4.8-1 all [installed,automatic] gnucash/jammy,now
> 1:4.8-1build2 amd64 [installed,automatic] python3-gnucash/jammy,now
> 1:4.8-1build2 amd64 [installed]
>
>
> >python3
> Python 3.10.6 (main, Mar 10 2023, 10:55:28) [GCC 11.3.0] on linux Type
> "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
> >>> import gnucash
> >>>
>
> Note that I also have GnuCash installed via Flatpak and that's the GUI
that
> I use. I need to figure out how to update my environment to execute python
> scripts against the flatpak as I expect that eventually the 4.8 libraries
> won't be able to read the 5.X files.
>
> Jon
>
> On Sun, 2023-05-28 at 12:55 -0400, Bob Reite wrote:
> > I am trying to run python scripts to import data from Quickbooks, but
> > I get the following error:
> >
> > ImportError: No module named gnucash.
> >
> > Phthon3-guncash is installed.
> >
> > System is Linux Mint 20 Ulyana
> > _______________________________________________
> > gnucash-user mailing list
> > gnucash-user at gnucash.org
> > To update your subscription preferences or to unsubscribe:
> > https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-user
> > -----
> > Please remember to CC this list on all your replies.
> > You can do this by using Reply-To-List or Reply-All.
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 7
> Date: Mon, 29 May 2023 14:56:48 -0700
> From: "Bruce Schuck" <bschuck at asgard-systems.com>
> To: finance-quote-news at lists.sourceforge.net, gnucash-user at gnucash.org
> Subject: [GNC] Finance-Quote 1.56 released!
> Message-ID: <20230529215648.AEACC544F39 at valhalla.asgard-systems.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
>
> New version 1.56 of Finance-Quote is available with the following changes:
>
> * Replaced Tradeville.pm with BVB.pm - Issue #269
> * Added new TwelveData module
> * Updated YahooJSON.pm and CurrencyRates/YahooJSON.pm to use
> https://query2.finance.yahoo.com/v11 - PR #284
> * Bourso.pm - Squash anything but numbers and period in quote
> values.
> * Renamed MStarUK.pm to MorningstarUK.pm
> * Added get_features method - PR #260
>
> Authors:
> - Erik Colson <eco at ecocode.net>
> - Paul Fenwick <pjf at perltraining.com.au>
> - Vincent Lucarelli <vincent.lucarelli at gmail.com>
> - David Hampton <hampton-sf at rainbolthampton.net>
> - Bruce Schuck <bschuck at asgard-systems.com>
> - jvolkening <jdv at base2bio.com>
> - Pawel Konieczny <konieczp at zonnet.nl>
> - AndreJ <Andre-J at users.noreply.github.com>
> - Mike Alexander <mta at umich.edu>
> - Vinay S Shastry <vinayshastry at gmail.com>
> - Bradley Dean <bjdean at bjdean.id.au>
> - Brent Neal <brent at reindeergraphics.com>
> - Jacinta Richardson <jarich at perltraining.com.au>
> - e-dorigatti <emilio.dorigatti at gmail.com>
> - goodvibes2 <goodchris96 at gmail.com>
> - Sam Morris <sam at robots.org.uk>
> - Linas Vepstas <linas at linas.org>
> - Manuel Friedli <manuel at fritteli.ch>
> - Diego Marcolungo <diego.marcolungo at gmail.com>
> - John Haiducek <jhaiduce at gmail.com>
> - alex314159 <alex314159 at users.noreply.github.com>
> - gregor herrmann <gregoa at debian.org>
> - Hiranya Samarasekera <hiranyas at gmail.com>
> - Jalon Avens <jalonavens at snave.info>
> - Paul Howarth <paul at city-fan.org>
> - Sigve Indregard <sigve at indregard.no>
> - goodvibes2 <chris.good at ozemail.com.au>
> - Ben Hemming <benh at obsidian.com.au>
> - Caleb Begly <calebbegly at gmail.com>
> - CleanShed <72849657+CleanShed at users.noreply.github.com>
> - Eelco Dolstra <edolstra at gmail.com>
> - Emmanuel Di Pretoro <edipretoro at gmail.com>
> - Florian Schlichting <fsfs at debian.org>
> - GitGord <46006740+GitGord at users.noreply.github.com>
> - Gustavo R. Montesino <grmontesino at gmail.com>
> - Henrik Ahlgren <pablo at seestieto.com>
> - Jean-Marie Pacquet <jm at pacquet.net>
> - Lance Wicks <lw at judocoach.com>
> - Liviu Tinta <liviutinta at chromium.org>
> - Martin Kompf <skaringa at nospam.org>
> - Pete Ratzlaff <pratzlaff at gmail.com>
> - Ross Peachey <ross.peachey at optusnet.com.au>
> - Stephan Ebelt <ste at shared-files.de>
> - linas <linas>
> - thinus <thinus at pollard.co.za>
> - x42x64 <martin-jan at arcor.de>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 8
> Date: Mon, 29 May 2023 15:04:04 -0700
> From: <viking2ev at san.rr.com>
> To: <gnucash-user at gnucash.org>
> Subject: [GNC] Last Num Bug(s) ??
> Message-ID: <01c101d99279$7c1ddbd0$74599370$@san.rr.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>
> I am using GnuCash v5.1
>
>
> I use the "Num" field in the account register to log the transaction
number
> (e,g, check number or other reference).
> I want to see the latest transaction number in the "Account Tree window".
> I have therefore set my "Account Tree window" to show the "Last Num"
> Heading.
>
>
> Bug1:
> For the last transaction in my Bank1 account I have set the "Num" field to
> 50.
> The "Last Num" Heading in the "Account Tree window" then properly shows
50.
> I then edit "Num" to 51.
> However, the "Last Num" Heading in the "Account Tree window" is not
> updated.
> It still shows 50.
>
> Bug2 (maybe not a bug?):
> Instead of using integers in the "Num" field, I would like to use use
> decimals; e.g. 4.5.
> However, that is not recognized in the "Last Num" Heading in the "Account
> Tree window". It still shows the previous integer value for the "Num"
> field.
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 9
> Date: Mon, 29 May 2023 22:13:10 +0000
> From: WR D <dullege at hotmail.com>
> To: Bruce Schuck <bschuck at asgard-systems.com>,
> "finance-quote-news at lists.sourceforge.net"
> <finance-quote-news at lists.sourceforge.net>,
> "gnucash-user at gnucash.org"
> <gnucash-user at gnucash.org>
> Subject: Re: [GNC] Finance-Quote 1.56 released!
> Message-ID:
>
>
>
<ME2P282MB0626E93A0CB12AD0D06FC66BB94A9 at ME2P282MB0626.AUSP282.PROD.OUTLOOK.C
> OM>
>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>
> Thank you for this.
>
> Can I confirm ... does this take time to propagate?
>
> On Windows right now, if I run the "Install Online Price Retrieval for
> GnuCash" under my Gnucash start menu entry (which points to ""C:\Program
> Files (x86)\gnucash\bin\install-fq-mods.cmd") , it is still recognising
> version 1.55 as latest version and thus not installing anything. The
> message I see is ...
>
> Finance::Quote is up to date (1.55).
>
> So I am not clear if this install method will update eventually and then
> look for 1.56?
>
> Regards,
> Bill
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: gnucash-user <gnucash-user-bounces+dullege=hotmail.com at gnucash.org>
> On
> Behalf Of Bruce Schuck
> Sent: Tuesday, 30 May 2023 7:57 AM
> To: finance-quote-news at lists.sourceforge.net; gnucash-user at gnucash.org
> Subject: [GNC] Finance-Quote 1.56 released!
>
> New version 1.56 of Finance-Quote is available with the following changes:
>
> * Replaced Tradeville.pm with BVB.pm - Issue #269
> * Added new TwelveData module
> * Updated YahooJSON.pm and CurrencyRates/YahooJSON.pm to use
> https://query2.finance.yahoo.com/v11 - PR #284
> * Bourso.pm - Squash anything but numbers and period in quote
> values.
> * Renamed MStarUK.pm to MorningstarUK.pm
> * Added get_features method - PR #260
>
> Authors:
> - Erik Colson <eco at ecocode.net>
> - Paul Fenwick <pjf at perltraining.com.au>
> - Vincent Lucarelli <vincent.lucarelli at gmail.com>
> - David Hampton <hampton-sf at rainbolthampton.net>
> - Bruce Schuck <bschuck at asgard-systems.com>
> - jvolkening <jdv at base2bio.com>
> - Pawel Konieczny <konieczp at zonnet.nl>
> - AndreJ <Andre-J at users.noreply.github.com>
> - Mike Alexander <mta at umich.edu>
> - Vinay S Shastry <vinayshastry at gmail.com>
> - Bradley Dean <bjdean at bjdean.id.au>
> - Brent Neal <brent at reindeergraphics.com>
> - Jacinta Richardson <jarich at perltraining.com.au>
> - e-dorigatti <emilio.dorigatti at gmail.com>
> - goodvibes2 <goodchris96 at gmail.com>
> - Sam Morris <sam at robots.org.uk>
> - Linas Vepstas <linas at linas.org>
> - Manuel Friedli <manuel at fritteli.ch>
> - Diego Marcolungo <diego.marcolungo at gmail.com>
> - John Haiducek <jhaiduce at gmail.com>
> - alex314159 <alex314159 at users.noreply.github.com>
> - gregor herrmann <gregoa at debian.org>
> - Hiranya Samarasekera <hiranyas at gmail.com>
> - Jalon Avens <jalonavens at snave.info>
> - Paul Howarth <paul at city-fan.org>
> - Sigve Indregard <sigve at indregard.no>
> - goodvibes2 <chris.good at ozemail.com.au>
> - Ben Hemming <benh at obsidian.com.au>
> - Caleb Begly <calebbegly at gmail.com>
> - CleanShed <72849657+CleanShed at users.noreply.github.com>
> - Eelco Dolstra <edolstra at gmail.com>
> - Emmanuel Di Pretoro <edipretoro at gmail.com>
> - Florian Schlichting <fsfs at debian.org>
> - GitGord <46006740+GitGord at users.noreply.github.com>
> - Gustavo R. Montesino <grmontesino at gmail.com>
> - Henrik Ahlgren <pablo at seestieto.com>
> - Jean-Marie Pacquet <jm at pacquet.net>
> - Lance Wicks <lw at judocoach.com>
> - Liviu Tinta <liviutinta at chromium.org>
> - Martin Kompf <skaringa at nospam.org>
> - Pete Ratzlaff <pratzlaff at gmail.com>
> - Ross Peachey <ross.peachey at optusnet.com.au>
> - Stephan Ebelt <ste at shared-files.de>
> - linas <linas>
> - thinus <thinus at pollard.co.za>
> - x42x64 <martin-jan at arcor.de>
> _______________________________________________
> gnucash-user mailing list
> gnucash-user at gnucash.org
> To update your subscription preferences or to unsubscribe:
> https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-user
> -----
> Please remember to CC this list on all your replies.
> You can do this by using Reply-To-List or Reply-All.
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 10
> Date: Mon, 29 May 2023 15:30:36 -0700
> From: <viking2ev at san.rr.com>
> To: <gnucash-user at gnucash.org>
> Subject: [GNC] Updated: Last Num Bug(s) ??
> Message-ID: <01c601d9927d$30ee9650$92cbc2f0$@san.rr.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>
> I am using GnuCash v5.1
>
>
> I use the "Num" field in the account register to log the transaction
number
> (e,g, check number or other reference).
> I want to see the latest transaction number in the "Account Tree window".
> I have therefore set my "Account Tree window" to show the "Last Num"
> Heading.
>
>
> Bug1:
> For the last transaction in my Bank1 account I have set the "Num" field to
> 50.
> The "Last Num" Heading in the "Account Tree window" then properly shows
50.
> I then edit "Num" to 51.
> However, the "Last Num" Heading in the "Account Tree window" is not
> updated.
> It still shows 50.
>
> Bug2 (maybe not a bug?):
> Instead of using integers in the "Num" field, I would like to use use
> decimals; e.g. 4.5.
> However, that is not recognized in the "Last Num" Heading in the "Account
> Tree window". It still shows the previous integer value for the "Num"
> field.
>
> Bug3:
> For the last transaction in my Bank1 account I have set the "Num" field to
> 50.
> The "Last Num" Heading in the "Account Tree window" then properly shows
50.
> This transaction entered in Bank1 is a Transfer to Bank2.
> The transfer properly shows up in Bank2 with the last "Num" field as 50 as
> it should.
> However, the "Last Num" Heading in the "Account Tree window" for Bank2 is
> not updated to show 50 (It shows the previous last number directly entered
> in the Bank2 register).
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> gnucash-user mailing list
> gnucash-user at gnucash.org
> To update your subscription preferences or to unsubscribe:
> https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-user
> -----
> Please remember to CC this list on all your replies.
> You can do this by using Reply-To-List or Reply-All.
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 11
> Date: Mon, 29 May 2023 15:53:18 -0700
> From: Bruce Schuck <bschuck at asgard-systems.com>
> To: WR D <dullege at hotmail.com>,
> "finance-quote-news at lists.sourceforge.net"
> <finance-quote-news at lists.sourceforge.net>,
> "gnucash-user at gnucash.org"
> <gnucash-user at gnucash.org>
> Subject: Re: [GNC] Finance-Quote 1.56 released!
> Message-ID: <98fdea73-882e-1297-ff32-e95b431e6234 at asgard-systems.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed
>
> On 5/29/23 15:13, WR D wrote:
>
> > Can I confirm ... does this take time to propagate?
>
> Depending on what CPAN mirrors are configured on your system, yes.
>
> > So I am not clear if this install method will update eventually and
> > then look for 1.56?
>
> Unless there is some other issue with your CPAN or Perl installation, you
> are correct?
>
> Bruce S.
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 12
> Date: Mon, 29 May 2023 17:05:18 -0700
> From: Vincent Dawans <dawansv at gmail.com>
> To: Sergey Mende <sergey at mende.spb.ru>
> Cc: gnucash-user at gnucash.org
> Subject: Re: [GNC] Invoice system and Deffered Income
> Message-ID:
> <CALisao-bLMU=
> Wb38iugTEPcoj1S3bM17aSLjdVm-zGBUQs0f-g at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
>
> Hi Sergey:
>
> I think you are describing the ability to use cash accounting instead of
> accrual accounting. Gnucash does not offer this by default unfortunately.
> There is an old enhancement report about it
> https://bugs.gnucash.org/show_bug.cgi?id=95700 and even an old wiki page
> https://wiki.gnucash.org/wiki/Cash_Based_Accounting
>
> There is actually a not-so-bad workaround but it still requires some
manual
> adjustments. So it's a workaround, not an ideal solution.
>
> It is very similar to what you have done so far as per your description,
> with the additional advice of putting all of your transitional accounts
> under a single top-level account. If you want to accommodate both invoices
> and bills you would have:
> Pending invoices and bills (TOP LEVEL of type asset or liability)
> -- Pending bills (type: liability)
> ---- Bills Payable (type: a/payable) This is the account where bills will
> be
> posted by gnucash -- it will be selected by default because it is of type
> a/payable
> ---- Deferred Expenses (type: asset) This is the account you need to use
> inside bills in lieu of expense account. Ideally it should include sub
> accounts matching your expense accounts needed in bills, although not
> entirely necessary.
> -- Pending invoices (type: asset)
> ---- Invoices Receivable (type: a/receivable) This is the account where
> invoices will be posted by gnucash -- it will be selected by default
> because
> it is of type a/receivable
> ---- Deferred Income (type: liability). This is the account you need to
use
> inside invoices in lieu of income accounts. Ideally it should include sub
> accounts matching your income accounts needed in invoices, although not
> entirely necessary.
>
> You can just do the Pending invoices part if you don't use the bills
> feature
> of course.
>
> The reasons why this structure is useful:
> - the low level accounts in that hierarchy under Pending bills and Pending
> invoices should always balance each other. If they do, you will see zeros
> under Pending bills and Pending invoices in the account view. If you don't
> see zeros, it means your manual adjustments are wrong OR your mistakenly
> used income/expense accounts (instead of deferred income/deferred
expenses)
> in your invoices or bills. Without that check it will be hard to detect
> errors.
> - by not using actual income/expense accounts they will be excluded from
> the
> P&L by default.
>
> The BIG caveat:
> - After you process each payment, you need to enter adjustments between
the
> Deferred Expenses and expense accounts (for bills) and Deferred Income and
> income accounts (for invoices); Ideally you put the adjustments as
> additional splits in the same transaction processing the payment so there
> is
> an easy track record of it and no risk of getting the date wrong. If you
> have complex invoices with a lot of items going to different
> income/expenses
> accounts this is far from ideal of course as you have to adjust each
> account. You could also just use one "deferred income" account and one
> "deferred expense" account and distribute expenses and income to the
> correct
> expense/income account in the adjustment. In that case you need the info
> from somewhere else (the item description in the invoice, etc).
> Hence why this is a workaround. This is the part requiring the most manual
> work and the main part that would need to be automated for this feature to
> be fully implemented. How much work depends on how complex your
> invoices/bills are.
>
> Little caveats:
> - You need to exclude these accounts from the balance sheet, although the
> balance sheet is still balancing with them, it just shows an additional
> asset balanced by an additional liability of opposite value. Not what you
> want but still not unbalanced. Still best to exclude them in the report
> options. It's easy because they are all under one single main account.
> - You need to include these accounts in some reports such as Customer
> summary for instance. Easy enough to do in report options as well.
>
> Now the above workaround is the heavy-duty one when you want your books to
> be in cash-basis at all times. Personally, because I don't use the vendor
> bill option and do have that many invoices and only need precise reporting
> once a year, I just edit my unpaid invoices and push them to January 1st
> when I reach the end of the fiscal year. Not pretty but it does the job
for
> me. But I could see that not working if you have a lot of invoices or need
> cash-basis reporting more often.
>
> There could also be a way to deal with this purely with reports. It would
> keep the registers in accrual mode as they are, not do any pending
accounts
> and adjustments there, but then provide a cash-basis P&L and cash-basis
> Balance sheet reports that would do the adjustment. That would be the
> simplest way to provide at least some functionality without any manual
> entries. But the challenge would come from partial payments. If an invoice
> has several income accounts in it, and a partial payment is made, there is
> no way (for the computer) to tell which income account the partial payment
> should be applied to without additional info from the user. One could
> decide
> to either pay the invoice items in the order presented or distribute
> proportionally or any other way. Partial payment is an edge case but still
> has to be accounted for. The same would need to happen for bills as well
of
> course. At the end this would still not be ideal since your main registers
> would still follow accrual so the info wouldn't match the report. For
> instance when closing books, profit/loss would be calculated as accrual in
> the register, you would only see the cash-basis in the report.
>
> The alternative is to automate the workaround above and enable it on a
per
> book basis. It's actually sort of similar to the type of per book
selection
> and automation done by the trading accounts (for a completely different
> purpose). But it's a substantial amount of work to do it properly.
>
> Sorry if my explanations are confusing. It's hard to explain this sort of
> thing without visuals. I might try to update the wiki page with some of
> these ideas and some screenshots. Also it's possible there might be some
> other caveats I have not run into of course as each use case can be
> different.
>
> Sincerely,
>
> Vincent Dawans
>
> On Mon, May 29, 2023 at 2:46?PM Sergey Mende <sergey at mende.spb.ru> wrote:
>
> > Hi there,
> > I am trying to figure out if the existing customer invoice system is
> > suitable for my needs.
> > For simplicity, let's say I have the following accounts:
> >
> > Current (Bank)
> > Undetermined Income (Income, for bank account transactions just
> > imported from the online banking) Deferred Income (Income, used at
> > invoice creation to track invoices that are posted and sent to the
> > customers but not paid yet) Income (for invoices that got paid, so the
> > payment actually received as a bank transaction and processed as a
> > payment of an invoice) Receivable (A/Receivable, for tracking
> > invoices)
> >
> > The problem is that I don't like to see non-paid invoice splits in the
> > Income Register until the invoice payment arrives to my bank account,
> > imported and processed as invoice payment.
> >
> > The idea is to assign an incoming imported transaction as a payment
> > for an invoice from the Bank account Register and change the Income
> > account appropriately, so the paid invoice appears in the Income
> > Register
> >
> > As I got from the docs, this mailing list and my experiments, there is
> > no way to change the Income account after the Invoice has been posted
> > and specifically at the payment processing step.
> >
> > Am I missing something?
> >
> > Thank you,
> > Sergey
> > _______________________________________________
> > gnucash-user mailing list
> > gnucash-user at gnucash.org
> > To update your subscription preferences or to unsubscribe:
> > https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-user
> > -----
> > Please remember to CC this list on all your replies.
> > You can do this by using Reply-To-List or Reply-All.
> >
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Subject: Digest Footer
>
> _______________________________________________
>
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> To update your subscription preferences or to unsubscribe:
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> -----
> Please remember to CC this list on all your replies.
> You can do this by using Reply-To-List or Reply-All.
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> End of gnucash-user Digest, Vol 242, Issue 70
> *********************************************
>
> _______________________________________________
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------------------------------
Message: 6
Date: Tue, 30 May 2023 15:49:32 +0300
From: Sergey Mende <sergey at mende.spb.ru>
To: stepbystepfarm at comcast.net
Cc: gnucash-user at gnucash.org
Subject: Re: [GNC] Invoice system and Deffered Income
Message-ID:
<CAEsLG69ZAPxhmkW6kThrWxhetHkVT9kieY7vh+16FxCML37KWg at mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
Hi Michael,
Thank you very much for your clarification. As I just responded to David, I
probably need to rethink thoroughly how the existing invoice system could
be applied for my needs.
Regards,
Sergey
On Tue, May 30, 2023 at 3:31?PM Michael or Penny Novack <
stepbystepfarm at comcast.net> wrote:
> On 5/29/2023 5:44 PM, Sergey Mende wrote:
> > Hi there,
> > I am trying to figure out if the existing customer invoice system is
> > suitable for my needs.
> > For simplicity, let's say I have the following accounts:
> >
> > Current (Bank)
> > Undetermined Income (Income, for bank account transactions just imported
> > from the online banking)
> > Deferred Income (Income, used at invoice creation to track invoices that
> > are posted and sent to the customers but not paid yet)
> > Income (for invoices that got paid, so the payment actually received as
a
> > bank transaction and processed as a payment of an invoice)
> > Receivable (A/Receivable, for tracking invoices)
>
> No, sorry, but the invoices are part of the business system and only for
> use with accrual basis accounting. Can't be used for cash basis
> accounting, which is what I sense you are thinking about when you see
> ":receivables" as "deferred". You will been to familiarize yourself of
> the differences between accrual basis accounting and cash basis
accounting.
>
> In accrual based accounting, the "income" is earned when the invoice is
> sent, the customer legally obligated to pay and the amount goes into an
> asset account "receivables". When the customer later actually pays (you
> mark it paid) that gets transferred to cash (you bank account). If you
> don't think of "receivables" as real money, look up what a "factor"
> does. In other words, "receivables" might be collateral for a loan or
> even sold.
>
> Michael D Novack
>
> PS: When some of us are using the term "deferred income" it is in the
> context of tax sheltered retirement accounts. Things like IRAs and 401Ks
> (but money going into Roth IRA is after tax, would not be deferred
> income). Thus I might have a 401K through work allowing me to
> contribute before tax income up to the regulated limit with the
> employer matching up to 3% of salary. In other words, were I selecting
> 5% of my salary to go into the 401K THAT would be deferred income and so
> would the 3% matched by the employer. Not escaping income tax, just
> deferring it till after retirement as distributions are taken form the
> 401K.
>
> _______________________________________________
> gnucash-user mailing list
> gnucash-user at gnucash.org
> To update your subscription preferences or to unsubscribe:
> https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-user
> -----
> Please remember to CC this list on all your replies.
> You can do this by using Reply-To-List or Reply-All.
>
------------------------------
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_______________________________________________
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