[GNC] How should I enter values on a budget in gnucash ?

[Adrien Monteleone]

Daniel,

The Budget module needs lots of testing.

Some changes were made (not sure at what release) to sort out issues 
with negative signs and the book preference for 'reverse balanced accounts.'

I used to use this module quite a bit, but about that time, I fell 
behind and haven't gotten back to it.

When that happens, I'll report back in this thread if I find similar 
issues as you, and/or if I find answers/solutions.

Regards,
Adrien

On 5/15/24 6:37 PM, Daniel Sheffield wrote:
> Hi all,
> 
> I am using Gnucash 4.8. I'm facing the issues discussed here.
> 
> I see a bunch of issues here:
> https://bugs.gnucash.org/buglist.cgi?component=Budgets&product=GnuCash&resolution=---
> 
> Specifically I am hitting these:
> 
> * https://bugs.gnucash.org/show_bug.cgi?id=797870
> * https://bugs.gnucash.org/show_bug.cgi?id=689754
> 
> I've seen a bunch of comments in this e-mail thread about user error or
> user preferences. Fact is the budget feature is just plain wrong as there
> is currently no form of user entry that gives consistent results in the
> following areas:
> * Budget Chart - plots actual vs budget bar chart
> * Budget Editor Income/Expense/Transfers/Total - this seems to be where the
> math error is
> * Budget Balance sheet - I don't use this one, but can confirm that it
> behaves as described in the issues above.
> 
> What I desire:
> * Budget Editor Income/Expense/Transfers/Total is correct so that I can
> tell at a glance if I've made a mistake in my budget.
> * Budget Chart - I need the credits and debits to be plotted in the same
> direction. I don't care whether the Reverse value for Credit Accounts is
> set or not or which direction debits/credits are plotted so long as they
> are consistent.
> 
> What I have been doing as a work around:
> * In the Budget Editor I put debiting a liability [thus decreasing my
> liability] as a +ve value and crediting a liability [thus increasing my
> liability] as a -ve value. If I make corresponding transactions in my
> accounts, then the Budget Chart of actuals vs budget agree.
> * In the Budget Editor I put crediting my Income as a +ve value and
> debiting an Expense as a +ve value. If I make corresponding transactions in
> my accounts, then the Budget Chart of actuals vs budget agree for Expenses
> but are opposite (diverging graph) for Income. But that's OK because I
> don't include income in my Budget Chart.
> * In the Budget Editor, the totals are calculated like: Remaining to Budget
> = Net Income Credits - Net Expense Debits + Net Transfer Debits (where
> debits are positive values on the budget sheet and credits are negative
> values on the budget sheet). Note that again, the "Reverse value for Credit
> Accounts" setting has no effect on the charts or the budget editor as far
> as I can tell.
> * Thus, the +ve values on my liabilities increase the total remaining to
> budget!
> * I can rectify the total remaining to budget by using -ve values for
> debiting a liability, but if I do that my Budget Chart is off (I include
> Expense and Liabilities in my chart).
> * So instead, I do a crazy hack: For every +ve value in a Liability, I put
> a corresponding -ve value in Equity and a +ve value in Assets.
> 
> The result is:
>    * The total remaining to budget is correct
>    * The Budget Chart shows actuals that go in the same direction as budget
> values for Expense and Liabilities.
>    * The Budget Report is incorrect for liabilities - but I don't use this
> feature - I use the Budget Chart instead.
>    * I have to remember to put the hack values in my Assets and Equities on
> the Budget Editor (making room for error).
> 
> This whole thing makes me afraid to use the budget feature.
> As my wife is used to an Envelopes (Single Entry) system rather than Double
> Entry accounting, it's critical that I can have a reliable budgeting
> feature (essentially what single entry is looking at).
> 
> At this point, I'm seriously considering changing my method to the
> following:
> * Put all values in budget editor as +ve for a debit and -ve for a credit.
> * The estimate feature will be applying sign reversal inconsistently with
> this approach - but this is less error prone to reverse (multiply each
> value by minus -1 as necessary).
> * The total remaining to budget will be completely wrong, but I can
> calculate this myself by looking at the rolled up top level accounts
> (assuming I haven't hard-coded values in any of these accounts). That is,
> summing the totals on the top-level accounts should add to zero.
> * Assuming corresponding transactions entered in the accounts, ie, sticking
> to budget, then all the accounts on the Budget Chart will show actuals
> agreeing with budget, including Income accounts (and Equity accounts too?).
> * Differences on Budget Chart will be shown correctly (in terms of
> magnitude), though wrapping my head around the sign reversal will be a pain
> - but this is the "normal" confusion I face with meaning of credit and
> debit in terms of accounting vs colloquial usage.
> * Budget Report is still wrong (sign reversal applied to Liabilities in
> Actual but not in Budget values). But I don't use this feature.
> * Budget Balance sheet is still wrong for the same reason. But I don't use
> this feature either.
> 
> This would achieve my goals of a) reduce possibility of introducing error
> while creating my budget, b) ensure the Budget Chart is readable and
> differences are shown at correct magnitude.
> 
> But it still bugs me that the Total Remaining to budget is wrong (let alone
> other budget reports than budget chart being wrong).
> 
> It's not a good look trying to explain away this discrepancy to my wife...
> 
> Having the budget values show +ve for debit and -ve for credit regardless
> of account type, and the totals agreeing with the accounting equation
> (Income + Expenses + Equity + Assets + Liabilities = 0) will at least
> provide some reassurance to me, and perhaps provide convincing proof the
> total remaining to budget really is incorrect...
> 
> I see the discussion has been since 2019. I would like this fixed. I would
> do it myself - I will do it myself if we can reach some agreement on what
> the fix should be.
> 
> Assuming I can figure out how to fix it. Sounds like the math will melt my
> brain even if I can figure the C++.
> 
> Is anyone looking at this at the moment? I'd like to help. At least two of
> the issues on the Budgeting feature can be resolved if we fix this math
> error. We could tackle separately perhaps getting the budget charts and
> editor to respect the Reverse values for Credit Accounts setting.