[GNC] help in fixing unexplained behavior
David Cousens
davidcousens49 at gmail.com
Wed Dec 24 17:54:39 EST 2025
Hi Keith
On Wed, 2025-12-24 at 22:39 +0100, keith adams wrote:
> Hello David:
>
> 12/24/2025 - my response:
>
> ** What should I do with this (besides sending to you - which I
> understand is not correct)
>
> ** There is a brief response to 'Dale' at the end.
>
> On Tue, Dec 23, 2025 at 4:00 PM David Cousens
> <davidcousens49 at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> A few comments:
>
> "A payment of your VISA card from your check account will appear
> in the
> Decrease (Debit) column for that account in that register. If the
> balance prior to the transaction is negative(red) though it
> should make
> the balance more negative, i.e. a larger magnitude negative
> number. "
>
> ** It seems to me that a payment from checking (appears in black -
> Decrease column) should make the VISA balance (in red) LESS negative
> in this case. Which, historically it has (in 10/20 and 11/14 for
> example).
The Visa Card account should be a Liability type account You can check
this from the Accounts tab using the Edit Account dialogue (right click
in the account tab to get the popup menu). The Account Type value
should be Liability in this dialogue. In accounting terms a liability
account is a credit balance account. which means that credit entries
(Increase column) to that account increase the value of the balance of
the account and debit entries decrease the value of the balance of the
account. A debit (Decrease column) entry to that account will decrease
the balance of the account. Decreasing the value of a negative number
makes it a larger magnitude negative number i.e. more negative. A
credit entry to a liability account increases the positive balance of
the account i.e. makes the balance more positive and less negative.
You also have to be very careful about which register you are looking
at the transaction from. If you are looking at it with the Checking
account register open instead of the Visa account register The columns
become Deposit (Debit) and Withdrawal (Credit) if the account type is
correctly set int his register and formal accounting labels aren't
being used. AGain check that the Account Type is set to "Bank" or at
least "Asset". bank accounts are an asset account with a few
specialised features.
If the account types of your Visa and checking account are correct then
it is more likely to be one or more entries with the columns switched (
not necessarily in the date range of the current period). Something
like an incorrect date entry outside the current period can throw out
the balance even though you have reconciled all previous periods.
Usually an entry with a prior date which is before the current period
and unreconciled will appear at the top of one of the two panes showing
the debit and credit entries in the reconciliation dialogue. If that is
the case then if it is an otherwise correct entry at the wrong date
you simply open it and correct the date. After that you will need to
check the reconiliation is still correct for all periods following the
incorrect date entry up to the present.
We can't look at your books so all we can do is make suggestions of
things to check for.
Good Luck and Merry Christmas
David
>
> If the balance is positive(black) then it should decrease its
> magnitude if
> it remains positive and turn it negative if the transaction
> amount is
> larger than the prior positive balance.
>
> ** Also, on 12/16, after things messed up, a payment from checking
> (appears in black - Decrease column) makes the balance (now in black)
> INCREASE.
>
> Are you using GnuCash's reconcile process to reconcile your
> accounts?
> Why did you make a "balancing entry" on 11/4/25?
> Was that for a transaction which was on your statement but not in
> your
> GnuCash data or vice versa?
>
> ** Yes, i'm using the GNC reconcile process to reconcile. The
> balancing entries were entered (using GNC's 'enter reconcile amount'
> feature) becasue I was unable to find any discrepancy between my
> VISA statement and GNC entries (checked amounts and dates multiple
> times). All statement entries are always checked to confirm they're
> entered correctly and marked 'cleared' in GNC and no GNC entries are
> marked 'cleared' that are not in the statement before reconcilation
> attempts. The statement dates, starting and ending balances and
> cleared totals all match GNC. All saved before reconcile attempts.
>
> The preferred accounting correction would be to add the
> transaction if
> it is missing from your books and has not been entered with an
> incorrect date for example, and to investigate why the
> transaction
> exists in your books if it was not present in the statement.
> Common problem can be to have assigned an incorrect transfer
> account
> while making an entry at some point or having entered an
> otherwise
> correct transaction at an incorrect date.
> If that other account is also reconciled then it will not be in
> agreement with its statement as well.
>
> ** I reconcile checking first, and then VISA. This has always
> worked in the past.
>
> Adding "balancing entries" is a last resort in accounting
> practice, it
> is far better to identify and enter the missing transactions or
> correct
> any transactions which are in error. If you require a strict
> audit
> trail then any correction is usually doen done as a new
> correcting
> transaction rather than changing the original incorrect
> transaction and
> is annotated to reflect which transaction it is correcting, why
> and
> when.
>
> GnuCash makes corrections during reconciliation this quite easy
> as it
> is possible to edit the underlying register while running the
> Reconcile
> dialogue and any changes. This can occur when a 2 digit year
> entry.
> This can occur when a 2 digit year entry you make to the register
> are
> automatically updated in the reconcile window as appropriate.
>
> Finding incorrect transactions is an art form and there are a
> number of
> tricks for finding certain error types (like the current
> discussion
> about transposed numbers in an amount). A Google search will
> usually
> turn up links to well known techniques. Wrong dates on entries
> also
> causes problems
>
> I would first examine your "balancing entries". It is possible
> they
> are duplicating entries which exist in your books but are
> perhaps in
> an earlier period because of a wrong date entry, commonly with
> the year
> of the date.
>
> ** 'balancing entries' don't correlate to any other entries I can
> find. Except for the 11/04 entry which was exactly double the
> "closing balance' shown on my statement.
>
> ** Re: Response from Dale: "If this is what happened, many
> transactions may have been entered incorrectly." I have no idea how
> to do this since I've been as meticulous as I know how already.
>
> ** My registers go back to 11/04/2019 and I've always been able
> to balance (with only 2 forced 'reconcilation entries, (11/04 and
> 12/04/2025)). Hundreds of entries in multiple accounts. I think I
> need step-by-step direction (like you gave me) to move forward.
>
> ** I'm beginnning to question whether I have the skills to solve
> this issue. But would hate to lose the historical data. I've used it
> multiple times for various reasons and find it valuable.
>
> ** I will reinstate my mailing list subscription if you still
> feel I should. My original subscription resulted in dozens of answers
> daily for weeks, only a couple addressed my issue on payment plans,
> and only one (yours) was useful.
>
> Thanks again. Keith
>
>
> On 23 Dec 2025 at 11:46, keith adams <kadams at mailfence.com> wrote:
> > 12/23/2025 - Tue
> >
> > Xubuntu 24.04 linux
> > Gnucash Version: 5.13
> > Build ID: Flathub 5.13-1
> > Finance::Quote: 1.67
> >
> > Hello David:
> >
> > For years GNC has worked perfectly for my Visa credit card.
> >
> > In an effort to resolve the problem below, I changed from
> > "Liabilities > Credit Card > Visa" to "Liabilities > Visa" which is
> > current account structure. Issue remains.
> >
> > Historically, payments from Checking account appear in Decrease
> > column (3rd from right) column and Balance column (negative, in
> > red) gets smaller.
> >
> > Charges to Visa appear in the Increase column (2nd from right) and
> > Balance column (negative, in red, 1st on right) gets larger
> > (correctly, increases the negative amount).
> >
> > On 11/04/25, however, I had to enter a Balancing entry (479.32)
> > into the Decrease column (3rd from right) The amount was exactly
> > double the Closing Balance shown on my Statement.
> >
> > I checked multiple times and all statement amounts matched my GNC
> > entries (date, amount, and charge, payment, cleared or not, and
> > saved). Closed GNC and re-opened with no change. Since I was able
> > to force-balance I decided to wait for the next statement to see if
> > this was just a fluke.
> >
> > On 12/04/25 I had to enter another Balancing entry (862.30) into
> > the Decrease column (3rd from right). Can't find any relation to
> > any other amounts or entries this time. Again I checked the
> > statement against GNC and everything matched perfectly.
> >
> > Going forward from 12/04, however, all entries in Balance column
> > (1st on right) are in black, (positive) and charges entered into
> > the Increase column (2nd from right) decrease the Balance (1st on
> > right, which, now in black, positive, decreases the positive
> > amount).
> >
> > I considered re-installing Gnucash but don't want to lose access to
> > my data (goes back years). I do regular backups with RSYNC of my
> > entire machine to 2 external HDD's. (not with Gnucash *.CVS
> > export).
> >
> > I'm at a loss as to what's going on here and would really
> > appreciate your input. I hope it's OK to contact you directly
> > here. Your assistance with my previous "payment plan" problem
> > (circa 7 Nov 2025) was so prompt, correct and understandable and
> > I'm quite confused by the whole 'mailing list' system (I un-
> > subscribed).
> >
> > Thank you in advance! And Happy Holidays!!
> >
> > Keith
> >
> >
> > On 7 Nov 2025 at 17:58, keith adams <kadams at mailfence.com> wrote:
> > > Thanks for your helpful and prompt reply. I'll be trying the
> > > steps you suggest as soon as I can.
> > >
> > > New topic: Forgive my ignorance, but I don't understand the
> > > instructions at end of each email or how to comply:
> > > > Please remember to CC this list on all your replies.
> > > > You can do this by using Reply-To-List or Reply-All.
> > >
> > > My only related choice is "Reply" which is what I'm doing here.
> > >
> > > Along with your email, I got a bunch of other emails that are
> > > clearly not related to my issue. What should I do with them?
> > >
> > > On 7 Nov 2025 at 14:56, David Cousens <davidcousens49 at gmail.com>
> > > wrote:
> > > > Keith,
> > > >
> > > > Your payment plan would be best represented by a Liability
> > > account
> > > > "PaymentPlan" or similar.
> > > >
> > > > For each service provider you could have an expense account for
> > > the
> > > > services provided by that provider as sub accounts of a Medical
> > > > Expenses expense account. If you don't need to break down the
> > > expenses
> > > > by provider, then you could use a single "Medical Expenses"
> > > expense
> > > > account.
> > > >
> > > > When you receive a service you increase the balance (debit) of
> > > the
> > > > relevantexpense account(s) and increase the balance (credit)
> > > the
> > > > liability account.
> > > >
> > > > WHen you make a payment to the plan you would decrease the
> > > balance of
> > > > your bank account (credit) and decrease the balance (debit) of
> > > the
> > > > liability account "Payment Plan".
> > > >
> > > > Alternatively you could use the Business features of GnuCash
> > > and create
> > > > each provider as a vendor and have a single Medical Expenses
> > > account.
> > > > Here when you receive a service, you would raise an invoice.
> > > this
> > > > automatically credits a Liability account "Accounts Receivable"
> > > and you
> > > > would specify the Medical Expenses account as the account to
> > > debit.
> > > >
> > > > Here when you make a payment, you would credit your Bank
> > > account and
> > > > debit the "Accounts Receivable".
> > > >
> > > > If you are only using the business features to record the
> > > expenses
> > > > incurred on the payment plan then the balance of the "Accounts
> > > > Receivable" is what you owe the plan at any time.
> > > >
> > > > With the reports for the BUsiness features you can use the
> > > vendor
> > > > reports to breakdown what is owning to each vendor, but
> > > presumably the
> > > > purpose of the payment plan is that you do not have to bother
> > > doing
> > > > that as the Payment plan takes care of ensuring the vendors are
> > > paid on
> > > > time
> > > >
> > > > Which approach is better depends on what you need the
> > > information for
> > > > and exactly what it is you need or want to know and what
> > > information
> > > > you need to record in your accounts to satisfy thatto satisfy
> > > that
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > On Fri, 2025-11-07 at 13:27 +0100, keith adams via gnucash-user
> > > wrote:
> > > > > 11/07/2025 @ 0726 EST
> > > > > Gnucash (Flathub v5.13). I have a payment plan set up with
> > > the
> > > > > hospital that owns numerous providers. I record payments in
> > > my
> > > > > Gnucash checking account. The balance in the plan changes
> > > when I
> > > > > receive services or make payments. After many hours I cannot
> > > figure
> > > > > out how to correctly show activity in the plan (with sub
> > > accounts for
> > > > > each provider/service so I can make itemized reports). Please
> > > Help.
> > > > > And Thank You!
> > > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > > gnucash-user mailing list
> > > > > gnucash-user at gnucash.org
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--
David Cousens
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