2020-01-21 GnuCash IRC logs
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03:14:49 <warlord> .
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03:35:32 <gjanssens> .
03:35:54 <gjanssens> Up early warlord ? Or back on this side of the ocean ?
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03:50:35 <warlord> Back in FR
03:50:52 <warlord> (it is 0350 in US/EST right now)
04:09:49 <gjanssens> That's what I figured :)
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04:10:09 <warlord> :)
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07:01:03 <chris> warlord: to a C noob, why is the gncOwner API so different from others eg Transaction/Account. lots of non-functional ones e.g mutates arguments.
07:05:52 <chris> and owner_from_lot is described broken in gncOwner.c... don't understand why. is exactly what i want but is static, not exportable.
07:09:38 * chris working on 797584
07:23:58 <warlord> chris, honestly, I don't know. the API has changed since I originally wrote it.
07:34:06 <warlord> Some of the idea was that we needed to pass parameters to some of the functions (in order to know which sub-category of owner to include), so having a proto-object with that information as a passed-in variable and using the same object for the return seemed natural.
07:54:33 <chris> ok. gives chris a headache though.
07:58:12 <warlord> Sorry
07:58:21 <warlord> The Scheme wrappers came later.
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11:58:20 <jralls> gjanssens: While adding the Archived resolution I noticed that the importance and priority fields also have an editable list of choices with only "normal" being undeletable. Would it be evil to remove all of the rest except enhancement?
12:03:00 <gjanssens> We're definitely not using the priority field, so I think everything but "Normal" can be removed there. For severity I would be more conservative.
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12:07:01 <jralls> How much more conservative?
12:10:13 <jralls> The underlying problems are that a) users aren't reliably able to assess severity and b) we don't pay any attention to it anyway, except for distinguishing bugs from enhancement requests.
12:16:19 <gjanssens> The severity classification used to provide visual feedback on bug lists (blockers were shown bold/red, criticals only red and so on)
12:16:37 <gjanssens> Looking at our current bugzilla it appears this was a gnome extension
12:17:10 <gjanssens> I found that very handy in deciding which bugs to tackle first if at all possible.
12:17:20 <gjanssens> Crashers stood out immediately
12:17:42 <gjanssens> As we don't have this any more, it looks like that feature is no longer useful
12:18:20 <gjanssens> Can't we hide the fields completely in some way ?
12:19:11 <gjanssens> chris: for the new-owner report, are you still pondering how to display parts of payments (RHS) that apply to bills (LHS) ?
12:21:46 <jralls> I'd love to make those fields invisible to users, then we could use them for actually prioritizing work. Neither that nor disabling them is possible.
12:22:01 <gjanssens> jralls: looks like the colorization is still there, but as almost no bugs get classified according to severity there's not much to look at.
12:23:23 <jralls> Right. The problem is that few users use it and those that do always mark their bugs either crash or blocker regardless of how bad they actually are, making the colorization useless.
12:24:55 <jralls> Or worse than useless because it's distracting when reviewing bugs.
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12:32:11 <khobo> anyone awake?
12:34:56 <jralls> khobo Depends on what you mean by awake.
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12:40:05 <khobo> hey jralls
12:40:13 <khobo> i'm curious if there's a way i can get my equity statement to itemize?
12:40:18 <khobo> so i can see each transaction that's hit equity?
12:40:20 <khobo> in the reports*
12:41:24 <jralls> I don't think so. Why not just look in the equity registers?
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12:43:49 <jralls> You can select Equity on the accounts page, right-click and select Open Subaccounts. That will give you a journal-style register with all of the transactions in the Equity accounts. If you want a report, pick Reports>Transaction report with that register focused.
12:44:23 <gjanssens> khobo: or you can open a transaction report and filter on the equity accounts
12:44:48 <gjanssens> Oh, that's what jralls' last comment ended with :(
12:45:05 <gjanssens> Or almost.
12:45:27 <gjanssens> What jralls meant was to open an Account report on the open register
12:46:06 <jralls> Right. I don't use either of those often and get their purpose muddled in my head.
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13:21:42 <khobo> readdding
13:23:02 <khobo> the transaction report didn't work
13:23:06 <khobo> since equity is a placeholder account
13:23:12 <khobo> am i doing something wrong?
13:30:53 <khobo> yeah my equity report is funky
13:30:56 <khobo> can't figure it out
13:31:15 <khobo> from year 2016 according to owner contributions i added $1775
13:31:43 <khobo> zero coming out of owner distributions
13:31:45 <khobo> and the report states
13:32:05 <khobo> oh fucking weird nevermind
13:32:09 <khobo> it's correct
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13:56:45 <khobo> yeah.. i can't figure this report out
13:56:47 <khobo> and what it's doing
13:57:08 <jralls> Which report?
13:57:11 <khobo> equity
13:57:27 <khobo> can I give you a quick rundown of how i set the CoA up?
13:57:45 <khobo> 2016 (first year) -- Stockholders' Equity
13:58:12 <khobo> Stockholders' Equity:Opening Balances, Stockholders' Equity: Owner Contributions, Stockholders' Equity:Owner Distributions, Stockholders' Equity:Retained Earnings
13:58:16 <jralls> Wait, you have separate accounts by year? Don't do that.
13:58:20 <khobo> nono
13:58:27 <khobo> just telling you this was the start of the biz
13:58:29 <khobo> sorry
13:58:34 <jralls> Oh, OK.
13:58:44 <khobo> so all the contributions i made i added into Owner Contributions
13:58:55 <khobo> and debited their counterparts correctly
13:59:07 <khobo> Owner Distributions is where I take my distros out of
13:59:15 <khobo> and retained earnings is where I send everything when i close my books
13:59:24 <khobo> now opening balance never gets changed.. i'm trying to figure out why that is
13:59:35 <khobo> maybe this is a question for warlord of war
13:59:58 <jralls> Because opening balance is a single transaction and would change only if you edited it.
14:00:02 <khobo> let me show you my report
14:00:07 <khobo> so at the beginning of every year
14:00:12 <khobo> i should take retained income leftover
14:00:17 <khobo> and move it into opening balances?
14:00:51 <khobo> last year was a netloss the next year (2017) i should have $56 dollars for the start of the next year
14:01:18 <khobo> err
14:01:20 <khobo> let me just show you
14:01:24 <khobo> https://imgur.com/a/sYisHHl
14:02:13 <khobo> so whre is it pulling 590.21 from?
14:02:49 <khobo> and how about decrease in capital? shouldn't that be 640 which was the amount of distros i made that year?
14:03:15 <jralls> From the previous year's results. Run the report for 2016.
14:04:08 <khobo> https://imgur.com/WkF3CgJ
14:04:11 <jralls> The decrease is the net of the 640 withdrawal, the 57 of profit, and the 21 investement (which I suppose is contribution.
14:04:28 <khobo> ahhh
14:04:44 <khobo> i'm doing a shareholders basis worksheet
14:04:47 <khobo> and it'snot tallying up correctly
14:04:47 <jralls> See? The 590.21 is the net of your activity in 2016.
14:04:51 <khobo> right!
14:05:01 <khobo> so i'm confused about investments for period
14:05:11 <khobo> i only invested $1777
14:05:13 <khobo> that year
14:05:27 <jralls> in 2016 0r 2017?
14:05:30 <khobo> 2016
14:05:45 <khobo> owner contributions should be $1777
14:05:51 <khobo> so where does it get 4k2 from?
14:06:23 <khobo> my netloss is correct
14:06:26 <khobo> i took a hit of 1420 that year
14:06:45 <khobo> does investments count revenue?
14:07:59 <khobo> i had $810.40 in Rev. with 2k2 in expenses giving me a netloss of 1420
14:08:07 <jralls> It shouldn't, but it might be adding in more than Owner's contributions. Is there anything in Opening Balance?
14:08:18 <khobo> not a thing
14:09:08 <khobo> are investments for period (contributions + distributions?)
14:09:21 <jralls> How about withdrawals? If you only put in 1777 you wouldn't have withdrawn 2231.
14:09:26 <khobo> right
14:09:44 <khobo> well i might have been out of basis
14:09:50 <khobo> which is what i'm trying to fix now
14:09:50 <jralls> How much did you actually withdraw?
14:10:03 <jralls> Run a balance sheet for 12/31/2016.
14:10:53 <khobo> okay
14:10:58 <khobo> assets = 626
14:11:03 <khobo> liabilities = 36
14:11:12 <khobo> equity = 590.21
14:11:26 <khobo> retained earnings does have a -1420.79 in it though
14:11:29 <khobo> which is weird?
14:11:45 <khobo> equity: owner cont. = 2,011
14:11:49 <khobo> retained earnings = -1420
14:12:02 <khobo> right so total equity would be 590
14:12:24 <khobo> where in heckin heck is that 4k coming from
14:12:36 <khobo> my dates are right on teh reports
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14:13:37 <jralls> Look at the owners distributions account. What transactions in it are dated 2016?
14:14:00 <khobo> at the end of 2017 it's a total of 640
14:16:28 <jralls> What about 2016? We're not looking for totals, but all of the transactions that happened in 2016.
14:16:49 <khobo> nothing happened in 2016
14:16:56 <khobo> no owner distributions were handed out
14:17:01 <khobo> that started in 2017
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14:17:49 <jralls> OK. Might you have other accounts of type Equity?
14:18:35 <khobo> just opening balances (0), Owner contributions, Owner Dist, and Retained Earnings
14:19:10 <khobo> at the end of 2016 ( starting year) i had made 2,031.92 contributions in that account
14:19:19 <khobo> definitely not 4k2
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14:20:12 <khobo> wait maybe
14:20:18 <khobo> things got sent to the parent
14:20:28 <khobo> nadda
14:20:34 <khobo> i removed placeholder and checked transactions
14:20:35 <khobo> nothingis in there
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14:22:17 <khobo> is it calculating assets?
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14:26:12 <jralls> I wouldn't think so.
14:26:19 <khobo> are you a dev?
14:27:25 <jralls> Yes, but I don't work much on reports. That's chris's department.
14:27:37 <khobo> is that war?
14:27:44 <jralls> War?
14:27:49 <khobo> warlor
14:27:55 <khobo> i don't want to ping him again
14:28:08 <khobo> which one is chris? i think knowing how the equity report is generated would be really helpful for problem solving
14:28:30 <jralls> Oh, you mean warlord: No, he's mostly does devops nowadays. He was an active developer 15 years ago.
14:29:11 <jralls> chris is chris. Can you read Scheme?
14:29:24 <khobo> maybe?
14:29:42 <khobo> ah, no
14:30:23 <jralls> Oh, too bad. I was going to give you the link to the equity report source.
14:30:31 <khobo> hmm can you send anyways?
14:30:34 <khobo> maybe i can make heads out of it
14:30:57 <jralls> https://github.com/Gnucash/gnucash/blob/maint/gnucash/report/standard-reports/equity-statement.scm
14:33:23 <jralls> What were your revenues in 2016? And did you use Tools>Close Book to generate the closing transactions?
14:33:53 <khobo> 2016-2017 is closed
14:33:57 <khobo> but 2018 - 2020 is not
14:34:01 <khobo> could that be the problem?
14:34:13 <jralls> It shouldn't be.
14:34:13 <khobo> *strokes chin
14:34:17 <khobo> right! it shouldn't be
14:35:24 <jralls> And the amounts are right for 2017, yes?
14:36:11 <khobo> le tme check
14:37:21 <khobo> yeah 2017 is 100%
14:37:41 <khobo> super weird right?
14:37:50 <jralls> So that rules out the 2018-19 unclosed txns.
14:38:28 <jralls> So what were the total revenues and expenses for 2016?
14:38:44 <khobo> revenue: 810.40
14:38:55 <khobo> expenses: 2231.19
14:39:23 <khobo> NLOP @ 1420.79
14:39:30 <khobo> which is correct
14:39:47 <jralls> Aha! $2231 is the excess withdrawals and investments.
14:40:12 <jralls> So how did you close the books in 2016?
14:40:18 <khobo> but.. 810 + 1777
14:40:28 <khobo> 2587
14:41:05 <khobo> closing date 12/31/2016
14:41:09 <khobo> income total: retained income
14:41:13 <khobo> expense total: retained income
14:41:21 <khobo> my accountant friend told me to do it like that
14:41:21 <jralls> You've now given 3 numbers for contributions in 2016: 2011, 2032.92, and now 2587.
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14:41:41 <khobo> no 2016 has always been $1777
14:42:07 <jralls> Tue-11:11 khobo: equity: owner cont. = 2,011
14:42:22 <jralls> khobo: at the end of 2016 ( starting year) i had made 2,031.92 contributions in that account
14:42:34 <khobo> ahhhh
14:42:39 <jralls> Tue-11:40 khobo: 2587
14:42:40 <khobo> weird!
14:42:50 <khobo> you're absolutely right -- maybe the report wasn't updated
14:43:14 <khobo> sorry -- let me restart
14:43:21 <khobo> don't kill me =p
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14:43:35 <khobo> 2016 - 2,011
14:43:49 <khobo> 2016 owner contributions: 2,011
14:44:27 <khobo> I was going off my stock basis worksheet -- which was using the old number before i added a prepaid expense i had forgotten about
14:45:00 <khobo> did i close the books incorrectly?
14:45:13 <khobo> I'm still not understanding where 4k2 is coming from
14:45:58 <khobo> i see where the withdrawals are coming from -- the excess expenses
14:46:37 <khobo> or expenses rather
14:46:41 <jralls> OK. That's what the report you posted says. Here's what's going on: You didn't use Tools>Close Book to make the closing transactions so they didn't get marked. You also didn't use the default phrase "Closing Entries" in the description. So GnuCash is calculating your Net Loss from the Income and Expense accounts and adding the closing entries to investments and withdrawals.
14:46:42 <khobo> im still within basis or should be
14:46:54 <khobo> wait i used tools> close book
14:47:14 <khobo> waitwait here's _Exactly_ what i did
14:47:20 <khobo> Closing Date: 12/31/2016
14:47:22 <jralls> You probably did for 2017 but not 2016.
14:47:32 <khobo> Income Total: RE
14:47:38 <khobo> Expense Total: RE
14:47:51 <khobo> Description: 2016 - Closing Books
14:48:18 <khobo> https://imgur.com/X1xeu8s
14:49:50 <jralls> In the equity report's options on the Entries tab change the Closing Entries pattern to "Closing Books" with the dates set for 2016 and apply. Does that change the report?
14:49:59 <khobo> let me try that!
14:50:11 <khobo> (thanks for being a dev on this btw)
14:51:05 <khobo> no didn'tchange it
14:52:38 <khobo> https://imgur.com/svyUUV1
14:52:43 <khobo> transactions look good
14:52:47 <khobo> unless sending both into RE is a bad idea
14:53:50 <jralls> Umm, what does the Equity Report look like with the option change?
14:53:59 <khobo> oh i was trying it on the equity report
14:54:21 <khobo> (so it looks the same)
14:54:24 <khobo> nothing changed
14:58:28 <jralls> You didn't include the quotes around Closing Books, did you? Try ".*Closing Books" (without the quotes) and tick the regular expression box underneath.
14:58:58 <khobo> okay one sec
14:59:05 <khobo> i created a transaction report targeting all equity accounts
14:59:14 <khobo> https://imgur.com/iMNeNsL
14:59:28 <khobo> so weird!!
14:59:33 <khobo> okay let me try the pattern thing again
15:00:05 <khobo> options - entries -> closing entries pattern: ".*Closing Books"
15:00:24 <jralls> No Quotes!
15:00:24 <khobo> no change
15:00:26 <khobo> oh
15:00:28 <khobo> LOL
15:00:46 <khobo> .*Closing Books
15:00:50 <khobo> is what you want me to put in the field?
15:01:09 <khobo> no change
15:01:10 <jralls> Yes. And tick the regular expression box underneath
15:01:15 <khobo> ah one sec
15:01:37 <khobo> apply
15:01:38 <khobo> reload
15:01:41 <khobo> samesame
15:01:55 <khobo> investments 4242
15:02:42 <jralls> It should reload on its own. OK. Delete the two closing transactions for 2016 and try again.
15:03:01 <khobo> leave 2017?
15:03:14 <jralls> Or not, won't matter for the 2016 report.
15:03:34 <khobo> deleting redoing
15:03:43 <khobo> any specific way you'd like me to close these?
15:03:59 <jralls> Don't yet. Run the report.
15:04:57 <khobo> there we go
15:05:27 <khobo> capital: 0, NL: 1420, Investments: 2,011, Withdrawals: 0, Increase in capital: 590.21
15:06:09 <jralls> GTG, but try using Tools>Close Books to recreate the closing TXNs. If it goes back to the wrong results there's a bug somewhere for chris to look at.
15:07:04 <khobo> txn = transactions?
15:07:21 <khobo> okay doing it
15:07:45 <khobo> description: 2016 - Closing Books
15:08:03 <khobo> yeah went back up to 4k2
15:12:59 <khobo> so should i just not close my books, do you think?
15:17:19 <khobo> also, it'd be nice if closing books updated my opening balances?
15:17:25 <khobo> im not sure on how to operate that account
15:17:36 <khobo> ./why it even exists
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16:36:39 <jralls> chris: Looks like there's still some problems with the equity report detecting closing transactions: https://lists.gnucash.org/logs/2020/01/21.html#T14:46:41 and following.
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18:19:31 <chris> @tell gjanssens Ffor the new-owner report, are you still pondering how to display parts of payments (RHS) that apply to bills (LHS)" yes my experiments have been fruitless so far. a small book and expected report output always useful.
18:19:31 <gncbot> chris: The operation succeeded.
18:20:23 <chris> jralls I never could figure out the equity-statement.scm purpose and reasoning. so, never tried to modify its calculations.
18:22:02 <jralls> chris OK, but that's somewhat separate from recognizing closing transactions. I thought you had done something with that. Or was it only on master?
18:23:54 <jralls> As for purpose, think of it as complimentary to the Income Statement: Together they explain the change in the balance sheet from beginning to end of the period.
18:24:15 <chris> no I modified Closing calcs only for Multicolumn P&L reports
18:32:15 <chris> equity-statment.scm seems to ignore the Closing Entries tab.
18:35:37 <jralls> It also seems to ignore the KVP entry.
18:37:44 <chris> and uses the words Investment Withdrawals Capital loosely. All I did was cleanup and make the formulas much more obvious. time to nuke it from orbit.
18:38:00 <jralls> Although it passes the pattern struct to gnc:account-get-trans-type-balance-interval-with-closing (l. 344 & 384).
18:44:33 <chris> gtg.
18:46:18 <chris> #L165 also reveals some design vocab: adjusting/correcting entries. also trial-balance.scm has 'merchandising' etc. I stayed away from them.
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19:05:23 <TownsendHardware> Hello, I didn't see an answer for my last question. Is it possible to set a bill-due date directly (e.g., due 03 Mar 2020) vs. using terms (Net-30 or by the 3rd of next month)? I can't see how to do it and I was hoping to avoid creating an ever-growing list of one-off billing terms.
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20:28:30 <zoid> Hello! What is the "proper" way to enter a vehicle loan into GNUCash? I entered it as a negative equity in opening balances, but that doesn't seem right.
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