sunfish62 at yahoo.com
Thu Mar 3 14:14:06 EST 2016
Thank you both for discussing this issue at length. I appreciate both your perspectives on this. With your further input, I humbly withdraw my immediate concern, with the following observations:
1) Not all documentation is equal. The Help files, as you’ve mentioned, only take 1-2MB; the English Guide weighs in at 11MB, and the Japanese Guide weighs in at nearly 30MB.
2) Although the package is a middling 110MB in size, this is still something of an investment of time for users at slower download speeds (and there are still many people who suffer from this). To have the documentation packages comprise 40% of that heft is perhaps something for consideration—especially if that proportion shifts even more to the documentation when additional language sets are made available. (I will note as an aside that at least one Mac outfit offers software to remove language packs from Apple programs that include multiple languages, so GnuCash is not alone in bundling language packs.)(Not that the software works, mind you.)
3) Adding an installer language option would require time, effort, and expertise, which are always in short supply, and there really are better ways to spend a day.
Again, thank you both.
> On Mar 3, 2016, at 12:21 PM, Geert Janssens <geert.gnucash at kobaltwit.be> wrote:
> On Thursday 03 March 2016 08:45:29 John Ralls wrote:
> > > On Mar 3, 2016, at 8:13 AM, Geert Janssens
> > > <geert.gnucash at kobaltwit.be <mailto:geert.gnucash at kobaltwit.be>> wrote:>
> > > On Sunday 28 February 2016 09:40:49 John Ralls wrote:
> > > > For the guide I don't think it's unreasonable to remove it from
> > > > the
> > > > Help menu and simply direct people to www.gnucash.org <http://www.gnucash.org/>
> > > > <http://www.gnucash.org/ <http://www.gnucash.org/>> to download it or read it online.
> > >
> > > That is of course an argument to keep help and guide two separate
> > > documents, so opposite to what we have just been discussing of
> > > merging all together...
> > >
> > > And I think if the online version is to become the primary version
> > > we'll have to fix the current iframe issue on the website.
> > >
> > > As a reminder, the current online docs are displayed in an iframe to
> > > keep them integrated in the website (have the main menu and
> > > language buttons available). The cleanest solution would be to
> > > tweak the html generation (for use on our website at least) to
> > > include the header and left hand side menu in every generated page.
> > > And it would even be better still if the document's own
> > > menu/hierarchy appeared somewhere on the page as well to users
> > > could more easily navigate it all.>
> > > > The guide is about 10-12MB to help's 1-2 so
> > > > removing all 5 (de, en, it, ja, and pt) would be the biggest part
> > > > of
> > > > the weight reduction. Help is needed for context help. For Mac
> > > > bundles we could instruct users to get it from www.gnucash.org <http://www.gnucash.org/>
> > > > <http://www.gnucash.org/ <http://www.gnucash.org/>> and install it in ~/Library/Application
> > > > Support/GnuCash or perhaps provide a little Applet to do that for
> > > > them. Windows needs help in .chm format which in turn requires a
> > > > tool called Windows Help Workshop which runs only on Win32. The
> > > > logical thing to do there would be to modify the installer to ask
> > > > the user what documentation version is wanted and to download it
> > > > and install it in the right place, but that assumes that the
> > > > installer is able to do downloads.>
> > > Alternatively we could provide localized installers with only one
> > > language per installer, next to a generic all-language installer.
> > > Or langpack-only installers which would only run if they discover
> > > an installed gnucash of the correct version. This is feasible with
> > > the windows installer we currently use.
> > >
> > > An installed that's able to do downloads would be better still
> > > though.
> > Geert,
> > True, combining the documents would make pointing the user at the
> > website impractical unless we also got rid of context help or rewired
> > it to also take the user to the website. I've used programs that do
> > that and I find it irritating.
> Me too for that matter.
> > I think having different per-documentation packages would be
> > confusing. It's not easy to make obvious that the only difference
> > between GnuCash-Deutsch-Intel-2.8.0-1.dmg and
> > GnuCash-English-Intel-2.8.0-1.dmg is the documentation and online
> > help, and that either can be used with an e.g. French, Dutch, or
> > Chinese UI. I'm not wild about installer packages. They've gotten
> > quite rare on Macs and I think most Mac users would be unhappy about
> > GnuCash switching.
> > If download size really is that much of an issue then I suppose the
> > least-bad alternative is to ship with only English and provide a menu
> > item in the Help menu to download and install other translations.
> I presume you are thinking of the OS X/Quartz edition here and optionally the Windows edition. Distros will want to package separate translations rather than having them installed via a menu.
> I don't consider download size much of an issue right now, and not my priority either. David T does have a point this may become one in the future should we get more translations donated. Until we are in that situation I'm happy to work on other priorities first though.
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