Giving up on Gnucash

[Rod Engelsman]

Neil Williams wrote:

> 
> 
> And points that are being addressed in the G2 port.
> 
> The developers are not unaware of the failings of Gnome1.4.
> 

What exactly does the G2 port accomplish? I'm asking because I honestly 
know absolutely nothing about that and I'm interested in whether this 
addresses primarily appearance, functionality, or some combination.

> 
> It's time to stop all the emotion and politics, please confine future 
> responses to the problems and their solutions.
> 
> As has been said before, what is needed is 
> 
> 1. a clear and unemotional list of problems and difficulties. 
> 2. a reasoned and helpful response from the developers and others on the list.
> 3. feedback on that response that is limited to discussion of the proposed 
> solution and clarification.
> 

I gave that in a response to being called a petulant child -- off-list 
BTW, which I always thought was supposed to be a breach of netiquette -- 
so maybe I wasn't feeling particularly unemotional at the time. But I'll 
repeat it here (copy 'n paste) and give you the opportunity to address 
these issues.

1. When I import downloaded transactions from my bank, the matcher does 
a terrible job. I always have to go back through and delete dups from 
stuff I put in by hand. It insists that I assign balancing accounts to 
checks, but doesn't tell you the check number, so I have to flip through 
the checkbook looking at amounts to match them up. And it doesn't allow 
you to split those transactions on import either, requiring yet more 
manual processing. All-in-all, it takes at least twice as long as it 
used to with MSMoney.

Comment: I asked about having a column for check numbers included in 
that dialog and was told that there wasn't room for another column and 
it would end up cluttered or something. As it is I'm looking at a big, 
wide, column with the word "Check" in it that tells me absolutely 
nothing. I got the impression that my suggestion wasn't taken seriously 
and would not be implemented even though others concurred.

Also, the Preferences settings for "Threshold" are meaningless since I 
have no clue how the algorithm works. Will raising one or more of those 
numbers improve things?... lowering one?... which one(s)?

2. The arrangements of the checks and deposits columns is exactly 
opposite of other programs, as well as the paper checkbook register 
supplied by banks. After thirty years of seeing it one way, why should I 
force myself to see it the other? Small thing? Maybe, but it's caused me 
to make mistakes, particularly when entering split transactions.

Comment: Would you take seriously a suggestion for a View setting that 
would allow those columns to be swapped? GC is billed as a personal 
finance program. I would think users trying to migrate from Quicken or 
Money would appreciate a more familiar interface. I would.

3. I have yet to figure out how to make the tax report thing work right. 
It always gives me errors and the help file doesn't match the program, 
so I can't determine what I'm doing wrong, or if it's simply broken. I 
didn't get much help from this list, either. Apparently either nobody 
else uses it or nobody else can get it to work right, either.

Comment: I asked about this on the list some time ago. Specifically, I 
the error I get is "WARNING: There are duplicate TXF codes assigned to 
some accounts. Only TXF codes with payer sources may be repeated." and 
"Code "N327" has duplicates in 2 accounts:", repeated a couple more 
times for other codes. Is this a function of how the account tree is 
structured? Is there something I need to change in the Edit Account 
dialog? Or in the Tax Options? I would think the latter, but the Help 
file doesn't help much. It says there should be a pane in the Tax 
Options dialog to whit:

Payer Name Source: A text description that is exported along with the 
value of the account. This is usually the name of a bank, stock, or 
mutual fund that pays dividends or interest. Occasionally, it is a 
description of a deduction.

But actually there is a pane with two radio buttons that allow you to 
choose between "Current Account" and "Parent Account".

How is this supposed to work? I've played with this every which way I 
can think of to no avail. When I asked on the list before, the only 
answer I got was along the lines of, "I don't use that, so I can't tell 
you."

4. My loan druid is completely hosed for some obscure reason that the 
developers can't figure out. Both the stock installation that came with 
the FC3 distro and the 1.8.11 upgrade both have this problem. It's 
simply broken.

Comment: I can live without the Loan Druid; I'm perfectly capable of 
using a spreadsheet to generate an amortization table. What bothers me 
is that I have no way of knowing if the root cause of this problem may 
be affecting other parts of the program. Do YOU know why this doesn't 
work right? Can you tell me for CERTAIN that it doesn't affect other 
routines or calculations? Since I got GC off the Fedora install DVD, 
wiped it and tried again with an rpm from an Internet repository, and 
then wiped and installed 1.8.11 when it came out -- all with the same 
problem -- I have to assume that every installation of GC on Fedora 
systems has this problem. It was noted in Bugzilla some time ago (1.8.4, 
IINM) with no resolution. We're talking about money here; calculations 
MUST work correctly, open-source or not. If I can't count on it to add 2 
plus 2 and get 4, I can't use it.

5. On a related note, loan accounts are treated as simple liability 
accounts. The problem? MSMoney has a feature where you make a payment to 
a loan account and it automatically determines the interest/principal 
split. Granted that won't generally match up exactly with what the 
lender says, but it's very useful for private loans that you want to 
keep track of. And I have that exact situation to deal with, requiring 
me to keep track of that via a spreadsheet and transfer the numbers over 
every time. Cumbersome.

Comment: Appropriate for an RFC. Not a deal-breaker.


> 
> This is a community and it works on sharing, equality, openness and 
> responsibility. Users of free software have a responsibility to contribute - 
> even if it is just submitting bug reports,

I don't mind submitting reports and having to wait; I understand that 
part. I feel much less motivated to do so when they don't seem to be 
taken seriously.

  replying sensibly on the mailing
> list 

I participate on several mailing lists and offer help whenever I can. In 
this case, the questions are either about things like commodities, 
foreign currencies, or invoicing -- none of which I know beans about -- 
or they're about issues that I have myself and would like to know the 
answer to and have yet to see addressed, like the tax thing.


or making a donation.

Grad student, wife, two kids... you figure it out. ;)


> 
> It is useful to hear why someone doesn't get on with the current version but 
> it is not generally helpful to be emotive, political or to start ranting. I 
> believe that most of Rod's points HAVE been addressed already in the G2 port 
> but it is understandable that he may not be able to wait for the release.

I would be genuinely interested to know which, if any, of the above will 
be addressed by G2. That would make a really big difference in how I 
proceed. I'm feeling somewhat frustrated because I really *want* to 
stick with the program. But this isn't like a project for something like 
a web browser, for instance, where you can try it out and beta test 
things while you use something else for your "production" environment. 
It's too much of a PITA to keep two sets of books, so there is a real 
threshold of usability that you need to cross first.

On the other hand, I've been using it since Mid-January and moving to 
another app will be a significant investment in time and energy. The 
longer I wait the worse that gets. It's not a matter of impatience so 
much as practical reality.

On a final note, I find it interesting to see Mr. Sowden write today:

 >I agree that gnu-cash does not provide basic accounting features that a
 >business might expect.  The problem is that gnu-cash is a personal 
 >accounting program.  I think a lot of business people thought they (me 
 >included) could strip out the personal accounts from the chart of 
 >accounts and create a gui based, basic accounting program that does 
not >cost an arm and a leg, and, more importantly, does not marry one to 
the >likes of Intuit or Microsoft.

 >Wrong product!"

I had the exact *opposite* impression! I see things like Accounts 
Payable, Accounts Receivable, and most of the reports being aimed 
squarely at small business. For a PF app, the account register UI seems 
to me to be "wrong" or at least unfamiliar and it lacks a household 
budgeting tool, which is a fairly standard feature in those kinds of 
programs.

So maybe what you have is a kind of identity crisis. What is this? Where 
is it going? What do you envision it being in five years? Are you aiming 
to provide a replacement for Quicken et al, or is it Quickbooks, 
Peachtree, and Simply Accounting? It will probably be too much for you 
to do both, given the resources. Inquiring minds want to know.  :)

Rod