gnucash and gnome

Sat May 3 12:09:24 EDT 2008

On Sun, Apr 27, 2008 at 8:03 PM, Derek Atkins <warlord at mit.edu> wrote:
> Hi,
>
>  Quoting Steve Brenneis <stevebrenneis at yahoo.com>:
>
>  [snip]
>
> > It is stated that plenty of KDE users use gnucash just fine. Well I
>  > guess that's true, except that they have to install gnome first. And
>  > this isn't just a little bit of gnome. The package list to install
>  > and use gnome as my desktop isn't much longer.
>
>  GnuCash has no dependencies on the desktop you run.  HOWEVER, the
>  GnuCash developers chose to use the Gimp ToolKit (GTK) and associated
>  support libraries in order to build GnuCash.  This does make it pull
>  in a bunch of the same dependencies that a Gnome desktop would already
>  have, but again, GnuCash itself does not depend on your RUNNING a
>  Gnome desktop.  However you still need those libraries.  This will
>  not change.
>
>
>  > It is also stated that the gnucash developers' time is better spent
>  > developing gnucash than in developing print libraries, graphing
>  > libraries, and HTML renderers. All true and an admirable goal. As a
>  > 35 year IT professional, I couldn't agree more. However, what the
>  > developers have done, by selecting a particular desktop environment,
>  > is offloaded the responsibility for these things to their end users.
>  > In doing so, gnucash has contributed to the "geek factor" of Linux
>  > and has thrown more flammables on the desktop holy wars. I'm sure
>  > that was not the desire of the gnucash team.
>
>  "port install gnucash" will automagically pull it all in.  If you
>  don't like that, well, your loss.  It has nothing to do with geek
>  factor.  indeed, this is exactly what package managers are for, so
>  you don't have to think about it.  It will pull in all the dependencies
>  for you.
>
>  Are you worried about disk space?  Disk is cheap
>  Are you worried about the time it would take to build the dependencies?
>  Use a distro that comes with pre-built packages like any non-geek would!
>  Are you worried about the time it will take to download the deps?
>  Load them from the distro DVD, as most distros provide GnuCash.
>
>  So I'm not sure what you're complaining about, unless you're just complaining
>  because you want to complain... in which case I suggest you take it to
>  /dev/null.
>
>
>  > Since I try never to complain without providing a constructive
>  > suggestion, I would offer that what the gnucash team should do is to
>  > identify those functions that directly depend on gnome and create an
>  > abstraction layer from those requirements. Then the end user can feel
>  > free to use whichever desktop they have selected without having to
>  > install 75% of the one they didn't select. That leaves gnucash out of
>  > the desktop debate and opens its use up to whole groups of new users,
>  > like me, who won't be able to use it because they don't want to have
>  > to install gnome on their KDE system.
>
>  You don't need to install gnome.  You just need some common libraries,
>  like glib, gtk, etc.  Are you willing to devote the several man-years
>  of effort to add this level of abstraction?  Are you willing to stick around
>  for the next decade and support it?
>
>
>  > I'm going to check back from time to time to see if the dependency on
>  > gnome has been eliminated or reduced to an acceptable point. I would
>  > love to use gnucash and contribute to its success story. Until then,
>  > I guess it's Microsoft and Intuit for the time being. Bleh!
>
>  Have fun.  I don't see this changing at all.
>
>  I'll note that GnuCash DID have multiple UIs at one point; there
>  was a Motif UI and a Gtk UI..  But the developers at the time found
>  that it was way too much work to maintain two sets of UIs.  But you're
>  asking for even more than that!  You're asking for not only two sets of
>  UIs but also two sets of underlying SUPPORT libraries (printing,
>  graphing, report-display, etc).   In other words, you're asking for
>  duplication of about 60% of the gnucash code base.   That's just
>  completely unreasonable.  You might as well just go ahead and write
>  a new program.  There's just no way you could rip out glib/gobject;
>  it's just too ingrained deep into the bowels of every level of the
>  program...  And LOOK!  glib is a GNOME LIBRARY.   Ooops!  There goes
>  your clean system, you just dirtied it with that ucky gnome lib.
>
>  So pardon me while I go off in a corner and laugh really hard at you.
>  The FAQ is there for a reason. [*]

I was going to make some of the points that Derek made, but he made
them sooner and better than I would have. I will just add that I am
also running Gentoo and use neither Gnome nor KDE, but simply run
Fluxbox as my window manager/desktop (I like it nice and simple). But
I'm a happy Intuit-less, Microsoft-less Gnucash user, have been for a
few years, and I couldn't care less about the little bit of disk space
the Gnome libraries occupy on my 60 Gb disk that is about 1/5 full, a
tiny price to pay for having non-bloatware money-management software
based on clear design and accounting principles and where the
developers aren't constantly trying to sell me something I don't want
or need. I think you need to take a second look at your cost-benefit
analysis, because I think you got it wrong the first time.

/Don

>
>
>  > Please remember to CC this list on all your replies.
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>
>  -derek
>
>  [*] Significant financial backing not-withstanding, of course.
>
>  --
>        Derek Atkins, SB '93 MIT EE, SM '95 MIT Media Laboratory
>        Member, MIT Student Information Processing Board  (SIPB)
>        URL: http://web.mit.edu/warlord/    PP-ASEL-IA     N1NWH
>        warlord at MIT.EDU                        PGP key available
>
>
>
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