gnucash and gnome

Sat May 3 13:19:47 EDT 2008

At Sat, 3 May 2008 12:09:24 -0400 "Donald Allen" <donaldcallen at gmail.com> wrote:

> 
> On Sun, Apr 27, 2008 at 8:03 PM, Derek Atkins <warlord at mit.edu> wrote:
> > Hi,
> >
> >  Quoting Steve Brenneis <stevebrenneis at yahoo.com>:
> >
> >  [snip]
> >
> > > It is stated that plenty of KDE users use gnucash just fine. Well I
> >  > guess that's true, except that they have to install gnome first. And
> >  > this isn't just a little bit of gnome. The package list to install
> >  > and use gnome as my desktop isn't much longer.
> >
> >  GnuCash has no dependencies on the desktop you run.  HOWEVER, the
> >  GnuCash developers chose to use the Gimp ToolKit (GTK) and associated
> >  support libraries in order to build GnuCash.  This does make it pull
> >  in a bunch of the same dependencies that a Gnome desktop would already
> >  have, but again, GnuCash itself does not depend on your RUNNING a
> >  Gnome desktop.  However you still need those libraries.  This will
> >  not change.
> >
> >
> >  > It is also stated that the gnucash developers' time is better spent
> >  > developing gnucash than in developing print libraries, graphing
> >  > libraries, and HTML renderers. All true and an admirable goal. As a
> >  > 35 year IT professional, I couldn't agree more. However, what the
> >  > developers have done, by selecting a particular desktop environment,
> >  > is offloaded the responsibility for these things to their end users.
> >  > In doing so, gnucash has contributed to the "geek factor" of Linux
> >  > and has thrown more flammables on the desktop holy wars. I'm sure
> >  > that was not the desire of the gnucash team.
> >
> >  "port install gnucash" will automagically pull it all in.  If you
> >  don't like that, well, your loss.  It has nothing to do with geek
> >  factor.  indeed, this is exactly what package managers are for, so
> >  you don't have to think about it.  It will pull in all the dependencies
> >  for you.
> >
> >  Are you worried about disk space?  Disk is cheap
> >  Are you worried about the time it would take to build the dependencies?
> >  Use a distro that comes with pre-built packages like any non-geek would!
> >  Are you worried about the time it will take to download the deps?
> >  Load them from the distro DVD, as most distros provide GnuCash.
> >
> >  So I'm not sure what you're complaining about, unless you're just complaining
> >  because you want to complain... in which case I suggest you take it to
> >  /dev/null.
> >
> >
> >  > Since I try never to complain without providing a constructive
> >  > suggestion, I would offer that what the gnucash team should do is to
> >  > identify those functions that directly depend on gnome and create an
> >  > abstraction layer from those requirements. Then the end user can feel
> >  > free to use whichever desktop they have selected without having to
> >  > install 75% of the one they didn't select. That leaves gnucash out of
> >  > the desktop debate and opens its use up to whole groups of new users,
> >  > like me, who won't be able to use it because they don't want to have
> >  > to install gnome on their KDE system.
> >
> >  You don't need to install gnome.  You just need some common libraries,
> >  like glib, gtk, etc.  Are you willing to devote the several man-years
> >  of effort to add this level of abstraction?  Are you willing to stick around
> >  for the next decade and support it?
> >
> >
> >  > I'm going to check back from time to time to see if the dependency on
> >  > gnome has been eliminated or reduced to an acceptable point. I would
> >  > love to use gnucash and contribute to its success story. Until then,
> >  > I guess it's Microsoft and Intuit for the time being. Bleh!
> >
> >  Have fun.  I don't see this changing at all.
> >
> >  I'll note that GnuCash DID have multiple UIs at one point; there
> >  was a Motif UI and a Gtk UI..  But the developers at the time found
> >  that it was way too much work to maintain two sets of UIs.  But you're
> >  asking for even more than that!  You're asking for not only two sets of
> >  UIs but also two sets of underlying SUPPORT libraries (printing,
> >  graphing, report-display, etc).   In other words, you're asking for
> >  duplication of about 60% of the gnucash code base.   That's just
> >  completely unreasonable.  You might as well just go ahead and write
> >  a new program.  There's just no way you could rip out glib/gobject;
> >  it's just too ingrained deep into the bowels of every level of the
> >  program...  And LOOK!  glib is a GNOME LIBRARY.   Ooops!  There goes
> >  your clean system, you just dirtied it with that ucky gnome lib.
> >
> >  So pardon me while I go off in a corner and laugh really hard at you.
> >  The FAQ is there for a reason. [*]
> 
> I was going to make some of the points that Derek made, but he made
> them sooner and better than I would have. I will just add that I am
> also running Gentoo and use neither Gnome nor KDE, but simply run
> Fluxbox as my window manager/desktop (I like it nice and simple). But
> I'm a happy Intuit-less, Microsoft-less Gnucash user, have been for a
> few years, and I couldn't care less about the little bit of disk space
> the Gnome libraries occupy on my 60 Gb disk that is about 1/5 full, a
> tiny price to pay for having non-bloatware money-management software
> based on clear design and accounting principles and where the
> developers aren't constantly trying to sell me something I don't want
> or need. I think you need to take a second look at your cost-benefit
> analysis, because I think you got it wrong the first time.

I too use GnuCash on a CentOS 4.6 system (yes, I am still at GnuCash
2.0.<mumble>). I don't use any desktop manager -- just a 'bare' fvwm2
window manager in MWM mode. I happen to have Gnome installed, mostly
because the default RedHat/CentOS installs it by default and it is too
much hassle to selectively uninstall a handfull of bits and pieces -- I
use a few other applications that depend on various Gnome-ish libraries
(including GIMP and FireFox).  My /usr file system is 6gig and only 78%
full (I have a 36gig disk, with like 12 partitions).  The Gnome-ish
libraries disk usage are the least of my worries...

> 
> /Don
> 
> >
> >
> >  > Please remember to CC this list on all your replies.
> >  > You can do this by using Reply-To-List or Reply-All.
> >
> >  -derek
> >
> >  [*] Significant financial backing not-withstanding, of course.
> >
> >  --
> >        Derek Atkins, SB '93 MIT EE, SM '95 MIT Media Laboratory
> >        Member, MIT Student Information Processing Board  (SIPB)
> >        URL: http://web.mit.edu/warlord/    PP-ASEL-IA     N1NWH
> >        warlord at MIT.EDU                        PGP key available
> >
> >
> >
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>     

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