Investments

[Derek Atkins]

Hi,

Dennis Powless <claven123 at gmail.com> writes:

> Oddly enough, I figured out that I can't transfer money into the
> mutual fund, it has to come from a cash type account, or some other
> account in the assets area.

Umm, I'm not so sure about that.  I've got transactions directly from
Income -> Mutual Fund, and they work fine.  From which account are you
entering the transactions?

> So, I have a transfer from the checking account (a split from the
> paycheck) that is paired with the fund cash account.  Then I transfer
> the money into the fund account and buy shares etc...

This is reasonable; it's certainly how most auto-deposits work anyways.

> I'm figuring the dividends work the same way.  However, I have a
> dividends account that keeps getting bigger in the income area.  I see
> in the guide about a DRIP account, but not much is said about this.

They don't need to.  You can just "buy" more shares directly from the
Income account.  It might be easier if you do this from the Mutual Fund
account.

> I don't get income per se from the dividends, they are reinvested as
> shares in the fund account.  But, they do show up as income.

Technically they are "income".

> That's my next hurdle.....

-derek

> Dennis
>
>
> On Mon, Nov 22, 2010 at 1:40 AM, Dennis Powless <claven123 at gmail.com> wrote:
>> Not to sound rude, but I do understand the idea of double entry
>> accounting (well getting better at it), what I don't understand is how
>> to handle my situation in gcash with the funds.  I did look around for
>> quite some time on how to set this up in GC.   Yes, I can search and
>> get a million hits on double entry tutorial, but will it tell me how
>> to set up the funds in GC, no. I looked at and read the guide sections
>> 8.5.1 and 8.5.2 and they both have errors in them.  The searches don't
>> help with this issue, only the history of it and how to use it in
>> general terms.
>>
>> Anyway, thanks for helping me with the account structure.  When I
>> imported the info from quicken GC made several accounts and sub
>> accounts, quite confusing and which none made sense.
>>
>>
>> I've been working on this for quite some time....
>>
>> I determined that if I use an income account within the fund, then the
>> money is transfered to the income account as a positive number.
>> If I use an asset account, say my bank, and transfer funds into the
>> fund the bank account becomes negative.
>>
>> In reality, I never have the money as an asset, since it is sent
>> directly to the fund company (where it becomes an asset).  So, to me
>> it is income that is invested as an asset.  But not earned from
>> investments.
>>
>> So, do I have to transfer the money from my paycheck into a 'holding'
>> cash account then transfer the money to the mutual fund.  This will
>> leave me a negative balance in the cash account.  So, I will then have
>> to create another transaction to counter this?
>>
>> Odd thing is I don't track my complete paycheck, only the net deposit.
>>
>> What I really need is an expanded or more detailed help guide for GC
>> on investing.  Than explains some of the finer points and details.
>> The guides are great, but they are sometimes too basic (which is a
>> good thing and bad thing).
>>
>> Thanks for the input!!
>>
>> Dennis
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Sun, Nov 21, 2010 at 9:14 PM, John Ralls <jralls at ceridwen.us> wrote:
>>>
>>> On Nov 21, 2010, at 1:16 PM, Dennis Powless wrote:
>>>
>>>> I kinda figured this out.... took me a while.
>>>>
>>>> So, I guess I kinda determined that for a mutual fund... I need
>>>> several accounts.
>>>>
>>>> actual mutual fund account in assets:investments.....
>>>>
>>>> A cash account to hold cash holdings....  income:cash reserves
>>>>
>>>> A dividends accounts    income:dividends
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I get dividends and I have to put them into the dividends account,
>>>> then move the funds as buy in the mutual fund.  The cash that is held
>>>> is then moved into the cash account.  Then when it is needed or used
>>>> for buys it is moved to the mutual fund account.
>>>>
>>>> When I buy shares (contribution from work income) I will transfer
>>>> funds from my paycheck into the mutual fund.  Is this correct?
>>>>
>>>> Does this all sound correct?  It's not very clear in the help guides.....
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Nope.
>>>
>>> You still don't get the double-entry accounting thing. Study the guide some more, look on the web (I got 292000 hits for "double-entry tutorial" from Google), maybe even buy a book.
>>>
>>> Anyway, you need at least the following accounts:
>>>
>>> Assets
>>>        401K
>>>                Cash
>>>                Fund ABC
>>>        Roth
>>>                Cash
>>>                Fund XYZ
>>>        First National Bank (Checking)
>>>
>>> Income
>>>        TaxDeferred
>>>                Dividends
>>>                Wage/Salary Contributions
>>>        Taxable
>>>                Wage/Salary
>>>
>>> Every transaction shows up in two accounts, a source and a destination. For "new money" (dividends or pay), the source is the appropriate income account, and the destination is one of the asset cash accounts (of which the checking account is one). When you buy shares in a fund, the source is the appropriate cash account and the destination is the fund account.
>>>
>>> You may find it helpful at tax time (or when you retire) to have separate dividend accounts for each major asset account. That's up to you. (I don't do that, and I have pretty complicated taxes.) You'll also want expense accounts and liability accounts (credit cards, mortgage, car loan, etc.)
>>>
>>> Regards,
>>> John Ralls
>>>
>>>> On Sun, Nov 21, 2010 at 9:49 AM, John Ralls <jralls at ceridwen.us> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> On Nov 20, 2010, at 9:40 PM, Dennis Powless wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> I'm having some difficulty setting up my retirement account in GC.  I
>>>>>> imported all my data from quicken.  I don't have a complicated
>>>>>> portfolio, I just have two accounts both held at the same company.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I have a Roth IRA and a 403B at work.  The amounts are all messed up
>>>>>> from the import, showing large negative numbers :(   supposed to be
>>>>>> positive.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I have run the new account druid to get the hierarchy, which gives me
>>>>>> the correct accounts.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I wanted to start over and re-enter all the data...
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I set up accounts
>>>>>>
>>>>>> assets:investments:XYZ company:RothIRA
>>>>>> assets:investments:XYZ company:403B
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The issue is, the accounts are only set up just like all the other
>>>>>> ones just in and out..... no sell, buy tot shares  etc...
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> What am I doing wrong?
>>>>>
>>>>> You will  need to set up a sub-account under each for each stock/bond/mutual fund that you own. Those sub-accounts will be of type "stock" and will have as "currency" the actual stock. That will enable the buy and sell columns.
>>>>>
>>>>> Regards,
>>>>> John Ralls
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
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-- 
       Derek Atkins, SB '93 MIT EE, SM '95 MIT Media Laboratory
       Member, MIT Student Information Processing Board  (SIPB)
       URL: http://web.mit.edu/warlord/    PP-ASEL-IA     N1NWH
       warlord at MIT.EDU                        PGP key available