Bank/CC to Expense, diff currencies

Christoph R subscriptions+listen at rohland.net
Thu Mar 30 12:34:27 EDT 2017 

Hi Ken,

> If the USD exp. was $100 your USD CC bank account would reconcile but the CND expense cost would be understated by <>$35


I do not agree with you on that. All screens show the same single transaction!

The first screen is showing both splits in USD i.e. showing 100 USD. On the second screen you see the same transaction in CAD amounting to 135 CAD. 

And with trading accounts you see the splits in their local currency. 

Cheers,
Christoph

> Am 30.03.2017 um 18:21 schrieb Ken Runge <kr at bell.net>:
> 
> Thanks for your reply and going to the trouble of posting screen shots which I have looked at. Unfortunately they do not change my opinion on how to proceed.
> 
> Screen 1
> If the USD exp. was $100 your USD CC bank account would reconcile but the CND expense cost would be understated by <>$35
> Screen 2
> The CND amt would be correct but your USD CC bank account would not reconcile as the bank's records would have a USD $100 charge and GC would show USD $135.
> Screen's 3 & 4 (the same I think)
> Both the USD and CND amounts would be correct using their respective trading accounts (thanks Google translate). This is what I would like to do but...
>     -I find the input process confusing & difficult to get correct on the first try. Once the input goes wrong there is created a plethora of out-of-balance entries which are hard if not impossible to get rid of.
>     -Even if it works it is time consuming and I have other things to occupy my life.
> 
> Conclusion:
> The parallel set of USD accounts was a pain to set up but processing USD (foreign to me) transactions is fairly straight forward. I had to do some experimenting with the I/E statement and it works OK. Only drawback is that the exchange rate is not set for each transaction and the reported USD amount changes with market fluctuations but I can live with that.
> 
> Thanks
> Ken
> 
> 
> On 3/29/17 9:29 A, 9:29, Christoph R wrote:
>> Apparently one cannot send attachments to the list. 
>> 
>> Here is a link to the screenshots: https://www.dropbox.com/sh/q2wex56hud9p1nh/AACGcS9-euJaTR0n6dOvifvBa?dl=0 <https://www.dropbox.com/sh/q2wex56hud9p1nh/AACGcS9-euJaTR0n6dOvifvBa?dl=0>
>> 
>> Cheers,
>> Christoph
>> 
>>> Am 29.03.2017 um 14:29 schrieb Christoph R <subscriptions+listen at rohland.net <mailto:subscriptions+listen at rohland.net>>:
>>> 
>>> Oops, apparently the pictures are missing. Trying again
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Gruß,
>>> Christoph
>>> 
>>>> Am 29.03.2017 um 14:25 schrieb Christoph R <subscriptions+listen at rohland.net <mailto:subscriptions+listen at rohland.net>>:
>>>> 
>>>> Hi Ken,
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>>> In the end; however, this is all a moot point as I have concluded that except for the transfer of monies between balance sheet accounts, that is bank a/c to bank a/c or bank a/c to CC account, GC is unable to handle two currencies in the same transaction, such as the example noted above.
>>>> 
>>>> I am using multi-currency transactions with any kind of account. But I know that the interface might be confusing. It especially depends if you use trading accounts or not.
>>>> 
>>>> If you are using the default setting without trading accounts you have to fill out all splits in the local currency. This means in the USD CC account the transaction looks like this:
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> and in the Canadian espense account it looks like this:
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> If you enable trading accounts gc does behave nearly as you expect: Every split has to be entered in the split currency and the transaction is shown the same way in both accounts:
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> But in both cases gc will bring up the exchange rate window and you have to enter that in addition.
>>>> 
>>>> HTH
>>>> 
>>>> Cheers,
>>>> Christoph
>>>> 
>>>>> Am 27.03.2017 um 00:38 schrieb Ken Runge <kr at bell.net <mailto:kr at bell.net>>:
>>>>> 
>>>>> Thanks for your reply, I must admit after reading my previous late night rant born out of frustration I am pleasantly surprised you bothered. Also sorry for not replying earlier but ran into another problem which would have nixed my using GC at all, but that has now been resolved. So my reply to your reply much of it written last week...
>>>>> 
>>>>> _It sounds like you're not quite understanding the basics of double-entry accounting. _Please excuse my trumpishness, but, after 25 years experience as the chief accountant in a multi-million dollar social service agency with 500+ employees using and supervising an accounting staff working with Microsoft Dynamics, which I initially evaluated, purchased, installed and trained others to use, not to mention instructing accounting at the local community college, I am pretty sure I have the hang of that 'double-entry' thingy you mentioned.
>>>>> 
>>>>> My problem is not understanding the concepts of accounting but how to implement those concepts with GU! This is, at its base, a technical issue wherein I would like to understand the work flow (order of key strokes if you will) of how to actually enter a multi-currency transaction. What I am after is an efficient method to get the following input starting with an entry from a Bank downloaded QFX file.
>>>>> 
>>>>> DB CND Expense $132.000
>>>>> 	CR USD Credit Card Account $100.00
>>>>> 
>>>>> In my dreams I would like to enter these two lines into, say the USD CC register, which is designated USD while the Exp. account is designated CDN and let the program fill in the blanks using the Trading Accounts for USD & CND. What I find is happening is a proliferation of unwanted 'out-of-balance' splits which I can't seem to get rid off and which I think should not even appear except perhaps if the entry, when finished, is not balanced. Of course, if the Trading Account function worked as it should the transaction, in its entirety, would never be out of balance. I think, or I thought at one time, I can get the transaction to balance but the process is difficult and cumbersome and frankly a pain-in-the-ass.
>>>>> 
>>>>> _When I travel to a foreign country I just manually convert the foreign transactions back into USD and use my USD Asset/Liability and Expense accounts. _But, of course, your example is not multi-currency but rather a 'back-of-an-envelope' example. If you had a actual EUR, GBP or CND account so designated in GC then your calculations would not work because you need to start with the non-USD amount as my example above outlines. If you charge the converted USD amount to the foreign currency account you would never be able to download and reconcile that account because your bank statement would report GBP 10.00 but your GC account would show something different. What I think you maybe referring to is what happens when your USA bank does the conversion for you and charges your USD account with the equivalent of the foreign purchase. From GC's point of view this is not multi-currency.
>>>>> 
>>>>> In the end; however, this is all a moot point as I have concluded that except for the transfer of monies between balance sheet accounts, that is bank a/c to bank a/c or bank a/c to CC account, GC is unable to handle two currencies in the same transaction, such as the example noted above. Accordingly, I have created a parallel set of expense accounts in USD and will record USD CC to USD exp. Still a major pain for a program which purports to support multi-currency but one has to work with what has available. Sure hope I don't open GBP or EUR bank accounts in the future!  With some experimenting I have got an I/E report to show what I am looking for.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Thanks again for your interest.
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> On 3/22/17 1:08 P, 13:8, Derek Atkins wrote:
>>>>>> Hi,
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Ken Runge<kr at bell.net <mailto:kr at bell.net>>  writes:
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Thanks for your input. Let me start by relating an experience from a training
>>>>>>> session I attended many years ago. At that event one of our group (me) was
>>>>>>> given a simple diagram and asked to describe it to the others of the group
>>>>>>> such that, unseen by them, they could draw it. It was a hopeless and utter
>>>>>>> failure! This is what is happening to me now. I simply have no idea what you
>>>>>>> are saying.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> "Transfer" referes to the "Transfer Account".  In a basic register it's
>>>>>>> the "other" account (to balance the transaction).  If you're in an
>>>>>>> expanded transaction mode it referes to the account tied to the specific
>>>>>>> split on that line."
>>>>>> It sounds like you're not quite understanding the basics of double-entry
>>>>>> accounting.  Every balanced transaction must have at least two splits, a
>>>>>> Debit and a Credit, which balance out.  It models moving money from one
>>>>>> place to another, e.g. you buy $100 of groceries with your credit card,
>>>>>> so you Credit your Liabilities:Credit Card account $100 and then Debit
>>>>>> Expenses:Groceries that same $100.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> When you open an account register, you're tying all transactions back to
>>>>>> that account.  It also hides the second split, since it can be mostly
>>>>>> inferred from the primary.  So when you enter a transaction you're
>>>>>> e.g. debiting the "register account" and then crediting the "Transfer
>>>>>> Account", which is the *other* account in the second split of the
>>>>>> transaction.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> If I use the basic register and select the expense account and enter CND
>>>>>>> amount as a debit on the single line of the register, the expense and USD cc
>>>>>>> amounts are reversed.
>>>>>> NOTE: It's possible this behavior has changed recently.  Historically
>>>>>> the register shows you values in the current account currency.  I.e., if
>>>>>> you have a USD account open, then it will show you all values in USD.
>>>>>> Then you need to use the exchange-rate dialog to convert that to any
>>>>>> foreign currency amounts.  It's POSSIBLE that this changed, however.  In
>>>>>> basic mode it definitely shows values in the local account currency.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> What account register are you opening here?  Are you opening your USD CC
>>>>>> account?  Or the CND Expense Account?  (Do I have that right -- you
>>>>>> haven't been completely explicit about what you're opening/doing).  The
>>>>>> register would give you values in that currency and expect you to enter
>>>>>> them in that currency.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> If the amounts are reversed then you're possibly entering them in the
>>>>>> wrong columns.  Are you doing that?
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Is there any reason not to just convert the expense into your local
>>>>>>> currency?
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> And just how do I do that?
>>>>>> Simple math.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> When I travel to a foreign country I just manually convert the foreign
>>>>>> transactions back into USD and use my USD Asset/Liability and Expense
>>>>>> accounts.  So let's say I pay €100 for a hotel room.  I'd figure out
>>>>>> exactly how much that is in USD (e.g. $125.34) and then I'd enter a
>>>>>> transaction for that USD amount.  I'd notate the transaction to remind
>>>>>> me it was €100, but all *numbers* are all in USD.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Thanks anyway
>>>>>>> 
>>>>> 
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