[GNC] Confusing and inconsistent headers in transaction entry and report forms

Tue Aug 16 13:55:17 EDT 2022

As an experiment, I started a band new Gnucash file for test purposes. I
entered a single transaction. I am attaching a view of the register, a
Transaction report and a Balance sheet.

You can see that the same thing is happening that happened before:

   - Register view shows that the checking account was debited.
   - Balance sheet shows that the checking account, which started at 0, now
   has a positive balance.
   - Transaction report shows that the column labeled "Credit" shows debits
   and the column labeled "Debit" shows credits, which is backwards.

Thus, I think it is clear at the very least that the problem did not arise
from the switch from 4.6 to 4.11. I also think it shows that I am not doing
anything wrong, but please correct me if you disagree.

I would look forward to suggestions.

-P.

On Tue, Aug 16, 2022 at 1:46 PM Peter S. Shenkin <shenkin at gmail.com> wrote:

> Hi, David,
>
> On the balance sheet, everything is correct; the sums reflecting the
> balances of the various real accounts are correct and in agreement with the
> bank statements; in other words, they reconcile. I also demonstrated this
> in the very first screen shot I sent when I started the case, the shot of
> the transaction viewed in the register. In this image, you can see that a
> debit to a cash account properly increased the cash balance. So I do not
> see how it is possible to conclude that the transactions were in any way
> entered incorrectly.
>
> It is only in the transaction report where the debits are mislabeled as
> credits and vice versa.  I do not see how this could be the fault of the
> way I entered the transactions, which modify the account balances concerned
> in the proper manner.
>
> I understand that there are other ways of entering transactions. But you
> did say, regarding the way I entered them, that "this works". In fact I
> think the information in the first paragraph above validates the stronger
> assertion that "this, in fact, has worked properly for my transactsions." .
> But if you see a way I could possibly be wrong about that, please do
> suggest what it might be.
>
> I agree that nobody we have heard from has had the same problem. But there
> it is. If you have a suggestion for anything I might try that could cast
> light upon this, please do let me know.
>
> One more thing. IIRC, I originally created the account using Gnucash 4.6
> and later switched to 4.11. But I do not know whether the same problem
> appeared when I was using 4.6. I'm skeptical whether this could be involved.
>
> Best,
> -P.
>
> On Thu, Aug 4, 2022 at 3:18 AM <davidcousens49 at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> On Wed, 2022-08-03 at 20:28 -0400, Peter S. Shenkin wrote:
>> > Adrian,
>> >
>> > I do have full account names turned on. I forget where I did that. I
>> have
>> > no customized sort that affects the order of accounts within a
>> transaction
>> > in either register view nor in the transaction report. (I prefer to sort
>> > the transactions by date in the transaction report, but that's just me.)
>> >
>> > You point out correctly that in the register view, where transactions
>> are
>> > entered, each line of the transaction (which is shown completely in my
>> > screen shot) shows the debit first (on the left) and credit second, as
>> is
>> > customary. I had the labeling of the columns set to the out-of-the-box
>> > defaults of Increase and Decrease, respectively. This is highly
>> misleading,
>> > because in fact both of these accounts increase as the result of the
>> > transaction. I later changed the labels to Debit and Credit, an
>> available
>> > option, which is less misleading, but other than the labels, the
>> > transaction looks exactly the same in both the account register and the
>> > transaction report. That is, the Credit and Debit labels are still
>> reversed
>> > in the transaction log.
>>
>> Peter,
>>
>> This seems to be counter to everyone else's experience with GnuCash and
>> definitely is not what occurs in the transaction report in GnuCash 4.11
>> on Linux
>> Mint 20.3.  I suspect if it was occurring specifically on either a MacOSX
>> or
>> Windows systems we would have a large number of experienced users (and
>> some of
>> us are accountants and pretty pedantic about such aspects) complaining
>> pretty
>> loudly.  So we need to work out why your experience is completely
>> opposite to
>> everyone else's or whether it is just a misinterpretation of what is being
>> displayed in the transaction report. In the transaction Report options
>> there is
>> an option in the Display tab to display one transaction per line or one
>> split
>>  per line.  Using the second option one split  per line, both debit and
>> credit
>> entries for the transaction will be displayed  but entries not to the
>> accounts
>> selected in the transaction report will be in the second(and subsequent
>> lines
>> for transactions with more than two splits) and the different selected
>> account
>> entries will be listed in sections with the account name at the head. The
>> transaction report is possibly the most general of the reports and is
>> highly
>> customizable from the report options
>>
>> >
>> > You seemed to express uncertainty about the account register. The way I
>> > enter transactions is to pick an account (for instance, by clicking on
>> it
>> > in a balance sheet). That opens the register tab, set to that account.
>> If I
>> > am remembering correctly, it will always list that account on the first
>> > line of the transaction, then you can add your currency total in either
>> the
>> > Debit or the Credit column for that account. For the balancing account
>> or
>> > accounts (in the case of a split), you similarly enter the currency
>> total
>> > for each account on a succeeding line, in either the debit or the credit
>> > column, and select the account from a pulldown you can invoke from that
>> > line.
>>
>>
>> While this works, A balance sheet, depending on the report options may
>> not show
>> all the accounts in your chart of accounts so it is limiting in which
>> accounts
>> you can choose to open. How you open the register tab for an account does
>> not
>> affect the order of display of the lines as it invokes the same routine
>> to open
>> the register. Double clicking on the icon for the account (looks a bit
>> like the
>> front of a colonial bank) in the Accounts tab will give you access to all
>> non-
>> hidden accounts (hidden accounts can be found with the Edit->Find Account
>> dialogue).
>>
>> >
>> > There is no specified order in the register view for the accounts
>> involved
>> > in a transaction; the account you selected to open the tab will always
>> be
>> > listed on the first line nd the succeeding lines will appear in the
>> order
>> > in which you entered them.
>>
>> This is not necessarily the case. If you open an existing transaction in
>> an
>> asset register in either Auto-split or Transaction Journal mode if it is a
>> credit transaction to the asset register (eg a bank account), the entry
>> to the
>> account for the register which is open will appear on the last line not
>> the
>> first. On the other hand if it is a transaction which debits an open asset
>> account register it will appear first. I.e. the debit components of the
>> transaction is listed in the lines before the credit components in all
>> cases.
>>
>> When you are entering a new transaction, if you do not specifically
>> select an
>> account in the Account column where "Account "is displayed in Italics in
>> the
>> first split entry, GnuCash will assume that it is the account of the
>> register
>> that is open (but you can explicitly select another account for the first
>> line,
>> in which case you have to explicitly select the account associate with the
>> currently open register in another line of the transaction to complete the
>> transaction. If you leave a subsequent line blank and press enter the
>> transaction will not be saved in the register.
>>
>> You can also actually enter a transaction affecting any set of accounts
>> from
>> within a register which is not associated with any of those accounts as
>> long as
>> the debits and credits sum to zero just as you can edit the accounts in a
>> register and change the account in a split to the account of the open
>> register
>>  to any other account  which will shift that split of the transaction to
>> the
>> other account and it will then display in the register for that account
>> when it
>> is opened.  This is quite often used with imported transactions which are
>> assigned to the wrong account to correct the transaction without
>> reimporting the
>> transaction.
>> >
>>
>>
>> David Cousens
>> > I'm pretty new to Gnucash (or is it gnu to Newcash?), so maybe there is
>> > another way of entering transactions, but this is the one I know.
>> >
>> > -P.
>> >
>> > On Tue, Aug 2, 2022 at 2:51 AM Adrien Monteleone <
>> > adrien.monteleone at lusfiber.net> wrote:
>> >
>> > > I took another look at your initial report screenshot.
>> > >
>> > > It is correct and *not* reversed.
>> > >
>> > > There are some parts of it missing, but you can see them in my
>> > > screenshot version.
>> > >
>> > > The main difference otherwise in our two reports is that you've listed
>> > > the Donations transaction first and the Checking transaction after.
>> (not
>> > > sure how that worked out, because I thought they appear in their order
>> > > in the Account Tree, but I guess you have a customized reversed
>> sorting
>> > > order in Options > Sorting > Primary Sort Order > Descending. Default
>> is
>> > > Ascending)
>> > >
>> > > The first line then, is from the perspective of the Donations account.
>> > > In that account, the amount is a credit and that is what the report
>> > > shows, with the transfer account being Checking.
>> > >
>> > > The second line is from the perspective of the Checking account, and
>> > > that amount is a debit (also correctly shown) with the transfer
>> account
>> > > being Donations.
>> > >
>> > > I can't find an option to turn off the Account name. I'm guessing you
>> > > copy/pasted the lines or blocked out that part resulting in missing
>> labels.
>> > >
>> > > Look at my screenshot again showing both accounts ,and the extra
>> labels
>> > > and info, which should make the report more clear.
>> > >
>> > > Regards,
>> > > Adrien
>> > >
>> > > On 8/2/22 12:24 AM, Adrien Monteleone wrote:
>> > > > Peter,
>> > > >
>> > > > Yes, I caught all of that.
>> > > >
>> > > > I'm referring to default options of the report - not GnuCash
>> generally.
>> > > >
>> > > > If you have the report still open, close it.
>> > > >
>> > > > Now, run it again. Note, you shouldn't get anything at first except
>> a
>> > > > page telling you that you need to set options first, particularly to
>> > > > choose accounts.
>> > > >
>> > > > Click the Options button on the toolbar, on the Accounts tab, select
>> > > > only the Checking account. Set the date range however you like in
>> the
>> > > > General tab, but narrowing it down to the one day of the transaction
>> > > > will remove cruft. Do not change any other report options.
>> > > >
>> > > > You should now see a list of transactions on that date affecting the
>> > > > Checking account.
>> > > >
>> > > > Is it correct?
>> > > >
>> > > > Note, if you have only that one transaction, you should see only one
>> > > > line in the report, not two.
>> > > >
>> > > > Now, edit the Options > Accounts again, and this time, select *both*
>> > > > Checking & Donations and click Apply.
>> > > >
>> > > > Now, you should see separate sections of the report, one for each
>> > > > account with subtotals and you'll see the same transaction twice,
>> once
>> > > > from the perspective of the Checking account, and the other from the
>> > > > perspective of the Donation account.
>> > > >
>> > > > I've done a sample transaction with similarly named Asset & Revenue
>> > > > accounts and attached screenshots of the register, the Transaction
>> > > > Report with just Checking selected, and the Transaction Report with
>> both
>> > > > Checking & Donation accounts selected.
>> > > >
>> > > > If your report doesn't look exactly like this save for the specific
>> > > > Description and amount, something is off.
>> > > >
>> > > > Regards,
>> > > > Adrien
>> > > >
>> > > > On 8/2/22 12:05 AM, Peter S. Shenkin wrote:
>> > > > > Hi, Adrian,
>> > > > >
>> > > > > My first image shows a single transaction (the "wepay to checking"
>> > > > > transaction). But I separately pasted in the Checking balance
>> from the
>> > > > > previous transaction, which is not fully shown. I wanted the
>> reader to
>> > > > > see
>> > > > > that indeed the transaction I did show raised the Checking
>> balance. And
>> > > I
>> > > > > also pasted in the header line from the top of the page.
>> > > > >
>> > > > > I'm not sure which default/non-default options you are referring
>> to.
>> > > > > If you
>> > > > > mean using Debit/Credit headers as register labels instead of
>> > > > > Increase/Decrease, I tried it both ways and it didn't change the
>> > > > > appearance
>> > > > > of the transaction report.
>> > >
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