[GNC] Revisiting the pre-paid invoice (coupon, credit note)
Eric Hammond
eric at jehammond.net
Thu Jul 14 14:31:52 EDT 2022
Hi Adrien, David,
Thank you for the thoughtful replies!
I do not use transaction imports any more to enter invoices or bills, or related payments now.
The official Customer and Vendor features are too good to bypass.
I create an invoice for every client visit I make, even if there is no charge. That way I have notes, possibly details, for future reference.
(And flag no-pay or slow-pay clients as well)
I raise an invoice for pre-paid items or time for the same reason. Plus, some customers, by agreement, pay later.
(I also create a Bill/Payment for every purchase for traceability, whether I get a Bill or not)
Hold the presses!
Just testing v4.11: It appears that it now allows for the 'assign as payment' to use Liability accounts! (and matching process for Bills)
I will report back after more testing!
Thanks Again,
Eric
Message: 1
Date: Wed, 13 Jul 2022 18:23:25 +0100
From: <davidvernonlong at gmail.com>
To: <gnucash-user at gnucash.org>
Subject: [GNC] .Re: Revisiting the pre-paid invoice (coupon, credit
note
Message-ID: <005e01d896dd$4283c3a0$c78b4ae0$@gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Hi Adrien,
I had the same thought as you "I'm curious why you raised an invoice for a payment against a coupon/credit note." But I guess the reason is that a document will be created if an" invoice" is raised for the prepayment which he can send to the student called "Coupon for future studies" or " Proforma Invoice" with hours and rates or whatever, and then when the actual tutorship is completed, he can raise an invoice and send that to the student too and post it to revenue, which will need to be offset against the prepayment. The billing system will produce the documents nicely.
Otherwise, if that's not the reason, I would agree with you entirely as your procedure is simpler.
Regards
David
I'm curious why you raised an invoice for a payment against a coupon/credit note.
Why not just book a payment against 'no-invoice' for that 'customer'?
You should do this manually, using the Process Payment feature, not as an import as far as I'm aware so the Business Features link the payment transaction to a customer/client. If you have LOTS of pre-payments, then yes, you can import standard transactions, but then you still need to individually, right-click and 'assign as payment' for each one.
Then, when you earn the revenue, you raise the invoice and clear it with the pre-payment. (Step 1, enter & post invoice; Step 2, Process Payment to apply partial pre-payment to the invoice)
The Pre-Payment would end up something like:
Dr. Assets:Cash/Bank/Un-deposited Funds/...
Cr. Assets:AR
*note, a Credit balance in an Asset account is a 'contra' balance because Assets *normally* have Debit balances. Thus, if a customer/client has a negative/credit AR balance, that is 'contra' what is expected and technically, a liability, so no need for a special Liability:Pre-Paid account, the GnuCash Business Features handle all of this for you *and* give you nice reporting capabilities. That's the idea behind the respective AR/AP accounts and their linked reports/functions.
(AP works like the mirror of AR with vendors that you owe instead of customers/clients that owe you.)
The Invoice would be something like:
Dr. Assets:AR
Cr. Income:Tutoring
*Applying the Pre-Payment would show up as:
Dr. Assets:AR
Cr. Assets:AR
*This doesn't show up as its own transaction, but effectively that's how it works. The best way to see this account balance effect is with a Customer Report and using the option to show Detailed/Simple 'Transaction Links'. (so you can see which payments apply to which invoices and vice versa. I'm a fan of the Detailed option for the complete information it offers, but you may prefer Simple.)
I'm not certain why any 'coupon' scheme exists in this case. You can track unused pre-payments via Customer Reports. (functionally 'Statement of
Account') You can then provide reports/statements to clients to show remaining pre-paid balance available for use by them as needed.
(note, I see you say you're reviving a previous discussion, but I don't see reference to it - I didn't dig through the entire digest you quoted, though it may have been there.)
>
> Thanks for any help,
>
> Eric Hammond
>
> PS: Am I supposed to keep the rest of the messages below?
Please, "No." It is not 'good form' to quote the entire digest. The wiki covers this, but the ideal 'workflow' when using digest mode is:
1. Reply-all/Reply-List
2. Change your Subject Line to match your topic (copy paste if this is a reply, prepended with "Re:" without the quotes helps) 3. Remove *all* of the quotation except what you are replying to. (**TIP
- select what you want to reply to *then* hit the Reply-all/List button, as most e-mail/list clients will then *only* quote what you selected, saving you lots of deletion work. It is okay to include the header portion of that message, and then you can copy/paste the subject as
*your* subject easily.)
Regards,
Adrien
-----Original Message-----
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Today's Topics:
1. Re: Saving window position (and size) (Adrien Monteleone)
2. Re: Saving window position (and size) (Adrien Monteleone)
3. Revisiting the pre-paid invoice (coupon, credit note ...)
issue: (David Long)
4. Re: Invoicing & payments with "coupons: I sell to clients
(Adrien Monteleone)
5. Re: Revisiting the pre-paid invoice (coupon, credit note
...) issue: (Adrien Monteleone)
6. Re: Saving window position (and size) (john)
7. Re: Saving window position (and size) (Tracy)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Message: 1
Date: Tue, 12 Jul 2022 21:14:58 -0500
From: Adrien Monteleone <adrien.monteleone at lusfiber.net>
To: gnucash-user at lists.gnucash.org
Subject: Re: [GNC] Saving window position (and size)
Message-ID: <tal9r2$nf$1 at ciao.gmane.io>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed
For the simple reason they'll be annoyed and try to ignore the bug report, I'd file it. You never know who else has the same problem with various apps.
Heck, I'd bet the bug is already filed, maybe even closed as 'won't fix'.
That's even better. File another and make them spend their time marking it as a duplicate and closing it. (when their time could be better spent by FIXING *their* bug.)
Normally, I'd never suggest such action, but these folks bring it on themselves with their dismissive and haughty attitudes, and you're doing nothing wrong reporting or reviving an obvious bug that is indeed, their fault. (why introduce Wayland as 'ready' when it isn't? If it works, why doesn't it work?)
I'm sure I'll get admonished for the above, but really the admonishment belongs on sour attitudes. Such are not conducive to the Open Source model, community, and users providing much needed feedback.
** Special Note **
GnuCash devs are *not* like this. They'll (at their discretion of
course) spend an inordinate amount of their personal, volunteer time helping users fix something, even if they've helped 10k people before you apply the same fix. These folks are golden and have more patience than the rest of the known universe. I have the utmost respect and appreciation for the GnuCash dev team.
Regards,
Adrien
On 7/12/22 4:40 PM, Tracy wrote:
> Well, it is definitely a Wayland vs X11 issue. When I switched from
> Wayland to X11, the problem just magically went away.
>
> If I thought I stood a chance of being listened to there, I would file
> a bug report against Wayland - but I suspect it wouldn't get much
> traction.....
>
> Anyway, thanks, all, for the pointers, and especially to Martin for
> jogging my memory about the Wayland vs X11 change in Ubuntu 22.04.
------------------------------
Message: 2
Date: Tue, 12 Jul 2022 21:25:38 -0500
From: Adrien Monteleone <adrien.monteleone at lusfiber.net>
To: gnucash-user at lists.gnucash.org
Subject: Re: [GNC] Saving window position (and size)
Message-ID: <talaf3$nf$2 at ciao.gmane.io>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed
RATS. I hate it when I proof a post but don't stop to think before hitting 'send.'
My apologies to the GnuCash team, the moderator, and any readers of this thread.
While I stand behind my comments, this is not the forum for such a discussion. My sentiments aren't about 'using GnuCash' and don't advance the original question posted. (though I do think a Wayland-related bug report is in order, if it doesn't exist.)
I'll strive to pause and reflect more before posting replies rather than just proofreading.
Tracy, I'm glad you found the cause and have a work around. Thanks to Martin for providing a path for investigation, and thank you again Tracy for reporting back your findings. These posts are what this User list is all about.
Regards,
Adrien
On 7/12/22 9:14 PM, Adrien Monteleone wrote:
> For the simple reason they'll be annoyed and try to ignore the bug
> report, I'd file it. You never know who else has the same problem with
> various apps. Heck, I'd bet the bug is already filed, maybe even
> closed as 'won't fix'. That's even better. File another and make them
> spend their time marking it as a duplicate and closing it. (when their
> time could be better spent by FIXING *their* bug.)
>
> Normally, I'd never suggest such action, but these folks bring it on
> themselves with their dismissive and haughty attitudes, and you're
> doing nothing wrong reporting or reviving an obvious bug that is
> indeed, their fault. (why introduce Wayland as 'ready' when it isn't?
> If it works, why doesn't it work?)
>
> I'm sure I'll get admonished for the above, but really the
> admonishment belongs on sour attitudes. Such are not conducive to the
> Open Source model, community, and users providing much needed feedback.
>
> ** Special Note **
>
> GnuCash devs are *not* like this. They'll (at their discretion of
> course) spend an inordinate amount of their personal, volunteer time
> helping users fix something, even if they've helped 10k people before
> you apply the same fix. These folks are golden and have more patience
> than the rest of the known universe. I have the utmost respect and
> appreciation for the GnuCash dev team.
> Please remember to CC this list on all your replies.
> You can do this by using Reply-To-List or Reply-All.
>
------------------------------
Message: 3
Date: Wed, 13 Jul 2022 03:29:58 +0100
From: David Long <davidvernonlong at gmail.com>
To: "D. via gnucash-user" <gnucash-user at gnucash.org>
Subject: [GNC] Revisiting the pre-paid invoice (coupon, credit note
...) issue:
Message-ID:
<CAD48BQDKrTyom=iA=+JkJvy=U55x4TMQBgeJ1Z39bLfK6ynO4Q at mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
Hi,
one way I know works, but is a bit ugly, is to create your prepayment account as a negative current asset. I do something similar as some members of a club incur expenses on its behalf, which goes to their current account as a negative asset, and I then use this to clear off invoices in their receivable account using the invoice payment process which is equivalent to your item 4 below.
Ugly though, as on the balance sheet report the current accounts not yet cleared of to A/R appear as a negative asset rather than in the liability section.
Regards
David Long
Your message :
Revisiting the pre-paid invoice (coupon, credit note ...) issue:
In standard accounting a prepaid debt (aka a coupon, credit note, etc) is booked as a liability.
On paper, and as direct import of transactions into GnuCash, this works However, I abandoned the brute force transaction method since I really like the GnuCash Invoice and Bill features: so I started fresh with imported Invoices and Bills.
My real life example: client prepays for 13 1 hour tutoring sessions, $25 each; to be used over the next year:
1. New Invoice for the prepayment:
Dr. $325 Assets: Receivables Cr. $325 Liabilities:
Prepaid
2. Process Payment for the coupons
Dr. $325 Assets: Cash Cr.
$325 Assets: Receivables
I 'earn' payment for an individual session when it is complete.
3. New invoice for that session
Dr. $25 Assets: Receivables Cr. $25 Income: Tutoring
4. and pay for it from the prepay
Dr. $25 Liabilities: Prepaid Cr. $25 Assets:
Receivables
GnuCash, however, appears to only allow payment of an invoice from an asset.
Is there a way GnuCash can accommodate this?
On Tue, 12 Jul 2022, 23:20 , <gnucash-user-request at gnucash.org> wrote:
------------------------------
Message: 4
Date: Tue, 12 Jul 2022 21:57:39 -0500
From: Adrien Monteleone <adrien.monteleone at lusfiber.net>
To: gnucash-user at lists.gnucash.org
Subject: Re: [GNC] Invoicing & payments with "coupons: I sell to
clients
Message-ID: <talcb4$nf$3 at ciao.gmane.io>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed
On 7/12/22 5:18 PM, Eric Hammond wrote:
> Revisiting the pre-paid invoice (coupon, credit note ...) issue:
>
> In standard accounting a prepaid debt (aka a coupon, credit note, etc)
> is
booked as a liability.
> On paper, and as direct import of transactions into GnuCash, this
> works However, I abandoned the brute force transaction method since I
really like the GnuCash Invoice and Bill features: so I started fresh with imported Invoices and Bills.
>
> My real life example: client prepays for 13 1 hour tutoring sessions,
> $25
each; to be used over the next year:
> 1. New Invoice for the prepayment:
> Dr. $325 Assets: Receivables Cr. $325 Liabilities:
Prepaid
> 2. Process Payment for the coupons
> Dr. $325 Assets: Cash Cr. $325
Assets: Receivables
>
> I 'earn' payment for an individual session when it is complete.
> 3. New invoice for that session
> Dr. $25 Assets: Receivables Cr. $25 Income: Tutoring
> 4. and pay for it from the prepay
> Dr. $25 Liabilities: Prepaid Cr. $25 Assets:
Receivables
>
> GnuCash, however, appears to only allow payment of an invoice from an
asset.
> Is there a way GnuCash can accommodate this?
I'm curious why you raised an invoice for a payment against a coupon/credit note.
Why not just book a payment against 'no-invoice' for that 'customer'?
You should do this manually, using the Process Payment feature, not as an import as far as I'm aware so the Business Features link the payment transaction to a customer/client. If you have LOTS of pre-payments, then yes, you can import standard transactions, but then you still need to individually, right-click and 'assign as payment' for each one.
Then, when you earn the revenue, you raise the invoice and clear it with the pre-payment. (Step 1, enter & post invoice; Step 2, Process Payment to apply partial pre-payment to the invoice)
The Pre-Payment would end up something like:
Dr. Assets:Cash/Bank/Un-deposited Funds/...
Cr. Assets:AR
*note, a Credit balance in an Asset account is a 'contra' balance because Assets *normally* have Debit balances. Thus, if a customer/client has a negative/credit AR balance, that is 'contra' what is expected and technically, a liability, so no need for a special Liability:Pre-Paid account, the GnuCash Business Features handle all of this for you *and* give you nice reporting capabilities. That's the idea behind the respective AR/AP accounts and their linked reports/functions.
(AP works like the mirror of AR with vendors that you owe instead of customers/clients that owe you.)
The Invoice would be something like:
Dr. Assets:AR
Cr. Income:Tutoring
*Applying the Pre-Payment would show up as:
Dr. Assets:AR
Cr. Assets:AR
*This doesn't show up as its own transaction, but effectively that's how it works. The best way to see this account balance effect is with a Customer Report and using the option to show Detailed/Simple 'Transaction Links'. (so you can see which payments apply to which invoices and vice versa. I'm a fan of the Detailed option for the complete information it offers, but you may prefer Simple.)
I'm not certain why any 'coupon' scheme exists in this case. You can track unused pre-payments via Customer Reports. (functionally 'Statement of
Account') You can then provide reports/statements to clients to show remaining pre-paid balance available for use by them as needed.
(note, I see you say you're reviving a previous discussion, but I don't see reference to it - I didn't dig through the entire digest you quoted, though it may have been there.)
>
> Thanks for any help,
>
> Eric Hammond
>
> PS: Am I supposed to keep the rest of the messages below?
Please, "No." It is not 'good form' to quote the entire digest. The wiki covers this, but the ideal 'workflow' when using digest mode is:
1. Reply-all/Reply-List
2. Change your Subject Line to match your topic (copy paste if this is a reply, prepended with "Re:" without the quotes helps) 3. Remove *all* of the quotation except what you are replying to. (**TIP
- select what you want to reply to *then* hit the Reply-all/List button, as most e-mail/list clients will then *only* quote what you selected, saving you lots of deletion work. It is okay to include the header portion of that message, and then you can copy/paste the subject as
*your* subject easily.)
Regards,
Adrien
------------------------------
Message: 5
Date: Tue, 12 Jul 2022 22:06:48 -0500
From: Adrien Monteleone <adrien.monteleone at lusfiber.net>
To: gnucash-user at lists.gnucash.org
Subject: Re: [GNC] Revisiting the pre-paid invoice (coupon, credit
note ...) issue:
Message-ID: <talcs9$nf$4 at ciao.gmane.io>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed
A negative asset is effectively a liability. It is part of a concept called 'contra' accounts. You can have contra-liability accounts too, that are effectively assets.
Asset - normally a Debit balance - amount you own.
Contra-Asset - Credit balance - amount you owe someone else. (liability)
Liability - normally a Credit balance - amount you owe.
Contra-Liability - Debit balance - amount someone owes you. (Asset)
Our replies I'm sure got crossed. I go into more specific detail for the posted use case, but essentially, I'd do it the same way - post the pre-payment to AR, then apply it after posting an invoice when I do the work.
Regards,
Adrien
On 7/12/22 9:29 PM, David Long wrote:
> Hi,
> one way I know works, but is a bit ugly, is to create your
> prepayment account as a negative current asset. I do something similar
> as some members of a club incur expenses on its behalf, which goes to
> their current account as a negative asset, and I then use this to
> clear off invoices in their receivable account using the invoice
> payment process which is equivalent to your item 4 below.
> Ugly though, as on the balance sheet report the current accounts not
> yet cleared of to A/R appear as a negative asset rather than in the
> liability section.
> Regards
> David Long
------------------------------
Message: 6
Date: Tue, 12 Jul 2022 20:45:21 -0700
From: john <jralls at ceridwen.us>
To: adrien.monteleone at lusfiber.net
Cc: GnuCash List <gnucash-user at lists.gnucash.org>
Subject: Re: [GNC] Saving window position (and size)
Message-ID: <3A940053-A002-4F4E-B2F8-51855BC5BB40 at ceridwen.us>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Setting aside the tone of Adrien's comments, I think that filing a bug report against the Wayland project would be seriously misplaced. They're just publishing a spec and a model implementaiton. The actual implementation for Gnome is https://gitlab.gnome.org/GNOME/mutter. KDE has a different compositor called Plasma. Compositors take bitmaps for different logical areas of the screen and blend them together to determine what color dot goes at what coordinate, then passes the result to the hardware. Mutter handles both Wayland and X11 protocols for sending the bitmaps and it's possible but unlikely that it's the source of the problem.
It's far more likely that the problem is in Gtk's gdk-wayland backend. Gdk is the layer that converts the Window abstraction into drawing instructions that it passes to cairo to execute; it's what decides that an x-by-y window will be represented by what set of colored dots at some position on the screen. So in theory that would be the right place to aim your bug report.
In theory.
In practice, if you file a bug with Gtk saying "GnuCash remembers where to put my window on X11 but not on Wayland" they won't know what to do with it, so unless you're able to reduce it to a simple example they're not going to be able to figure out what's wrong with their code--if anything is.
There's another problem, and it's that GnuCash's Gtk code is still warmed over Gtk2 code with the absolute minimum done to keep it working in Gtk3.
There's tons of deprecated code that we haven't made time to update, partly for lack of time and partly because we support older distributions. It's entirely possible, likely even, that the reason that the window doesn't get put in the right place on Wayland is that GnuCash is calling a deprecated function that's implemented for X11 but not for Wayland. In a perfect world you should file a bug with GnuCash and let us devs figure out where the problem is and whether to push it upstream. Unfortunately there are at present only two core devs who know GUI coding enough to do that, Bob Fewell and me. I can't really speak for Bob but I have far too big a pile of higher priority work to put in the several hours of debugging that problem. It won't do any harm to file that bug but I can't offer much hope that it will get acted upon.
Regards,
John Ralls
> On Jul 12, 2022, at 7:25 PM, Adrien Monteleone
<adrien.monteleone at lusfiber.net> wrote:
>
> RATS. I hate it when I proof a post but don't stop to think before
> hitting
'send.'
>
> My apologies to the GnuCash team, the moderator, and any readers of
> this
thread.
>
> While I stand behind my comments, this is not the forum for such a
> discussion. My sentiments aren't about 'using GnuCash' and don't
> advance the original question posted. (though I do think a
> Wayland-related bug report is in order, if it doesn't exist.)
>
> I'll strive to pause and reflect more before posting replies rather
> than
just proofreading.
>
> Tracy, I'm glad you found the cause and have a work around. Thanks to
Martin for providing a path for investigation, and thank you again Tracy for reporting back your findings. These posts are what this User list is all about.
>
> Regards,
> Adrien
>
> On 7/12/22 9:14 PM, Adrien Monteleone wrote:
>> For the simple reason they'll be annoyed and try to ignore the bug
>> report, I'd file it. You never know who else has the same problem
>> with various apps. Heck, I'd bet the bug is already filed, maybe even
closed as 'won't fix'. That's even better. File another and make them spend their time marking it as a duplicate and closing it. (when their time could be better spent by FIXING *their* bug.) Normally, I'd never suggest such action, but these folks bring it on themselves with their dismissive and haughty attitudes, and you're doing nothing wrong reporting or reviving an obvious bug that is indeed, their fault. (why introduce Wayland as 'ready'
when it isn't? If it works, why doesn't it work?) I'm sure I'll get admonished for the above, but really the admonishment belongs on sour attitudes. Such are not conducive to the Open Source model, community, and users providing much needed feedback.
>> ** Special Note **
>> GnuCash devs are *not* like this. They'll (at their discretion of
>> course)
spend an inordinate amount of their personal, volunteer time helping users fix something, even if they've helped 10k people before you apply the same fix. These folks are golden and have more patience than the rest of the known universe. I have the utmost respect and appreciation for the GnuCash dev team.
>
>> Please remember to CC this list on all your replies.
>> You can do this by using Reply-To-List or Reply-All.
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> gnucash-user mailing list
> gnucash-user at gnucash.org
> To update your subscription preferences or to unsubscribe:
> https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-user
> If you are using Nabble or Gmane, please see
https://wiki.gnucash.org/wiki/Mailing_Lists for more information.
> -----
> Please remember to CC this list on all your replies.
> You can do this by using Reply-To-List or Reply-All.
------------------------------
Message: 7
Date: Wed, 13 Jul 2022 10:34:13 -0400
From: Tracy <gnulist at vbot.org>
To: john <jralls at ceridwen.us>
Cc: GnuCash List <gnucash-user at lists.gnucash.org>
Subject: Re: [GNC] Saving window position (and size)
Message-ID:
<CAMamm6VebbWYcqn3i6pM3sSYyL3=mizdVcgE-S+5XPe-SMt5xg at mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
Good morning John,
I get what you are saying, and I agree that tracking down the exact problem would be a huge undertaking. However, in this case, I can't just point the finger at GnuCash - there are other apps that were doing the same thing (one example being LibreOffice Calc). However, there were other apps (notably Pidgin, Firefox, and Thunderbird) that were working correctly.
Which, of course, further supports your theory that it is a buried problem that would take an inordinate amount of time to dig out, between the various levels of interactions. Which is why I said I doubted that I would get any traction on a bug report - I just don't have the time (or the
skills) to dig through all the layers to find the underlying problem.
But as it happens, I am fine with using X11 (I prefer it, I was just giving Wayland a trial since they made it default), so I also don't really have the motivation to dig either.
On Tue, Jul 12, 2022, 23:46 john <jralls at ceridwen.us> wrote:
> Setting aside the tone of Adrien's comments, I think that filing a bug
> report against the Wayland project would be seriously misplaced.
> They're just publishing a spec and a model implementaiton. The actual
> implementation for Gnome is https://gitlab.gnome.org/GNOME/mutter. KDE
> has a different compositor called Plasma. Compositors take bitmaps for
> different logical areas of the screen and blend them together to
> determine what color dot goes at what coordinate, then passes the
> result to the hardware. Mutter handles both Wayland and X11 protocols
> for sending the bitmaps and it's possible but unlikely that it's the
source of the problem.
>
> It's far more likely that the problem is in Gtk's gdk-wayland backend.
> Gdk is the layer that converts the Window abstraction into drawing
> instructions that it passes to cairo to execute; it's what decides
> that an x-by-y window will be represented by what set of colored dots
> at some position on the screen. So in theory that would be the right
> place
to aim your bug report.
> In theory.
>
> In practice, if you file a bug with Gtk saying "GnuCash remembers
> where to put my window on X11 but not on Wayland" they won't know what
> to do with it, so unless you're able to reduce it to a simple example
> they're not going to be able to figure out what's wrong with their
code--if anything is.
>
> There's another problem, and it's that GnuCash's Gtk code is still
> warmed over Gtk2 code with the absolute minimum done to keep it
> working in
Gtk3.
> There's tons of deprecated code that we haven't made time to update,
> partly for lack of time and partly because we support older
> distributions. It's entirely possible, likely even, that the reason
> that the window doesn't get put in the right place on Wayland is that
> GnuCash is calling a deprecated function that's implemented for X11
> but not for Wayland. In a perfect world you should file a bug with
> GnuCash and let us devs figure out where the problem is and whether to
> push it upstream. Unfortunately there are at present only two core
> devs who know GUI coding enough to do that, Bob Fewell and me. I can't
> really speak for Bob but I have far too big a pile of higher priority
> work to put in the several hours of debugging that problem. It won't
> do any harm to file that bug but I can't offer much hope that it will
> get
acted upon.
>
> Regards,
> John Ralls
>
>
> > On Jul 12, 2022, at 7:25 PM, Adrien Monteleone <
> adrien.monteleone at lusfiber.net> wrote:
> >
> > RATS. I hate it when I proof a post but don't stop to think before
> hitting 'send.'
> >
> > My apologies to the GnuCash team, the moderator, and any readers of
> > this
> thread.
> >
> > While I stand behind my comments, this is not the forum for such a
> discussion. My sentiments aren't about 'using GnuCash' and don't
> advance the original question posted. (though I do think a
> Wayland-related bug report is in order, if it doesn't exist.)
> >
> > I'll strive to pause and reflect more before posting replies rather
> > than
> just proofreading.
> >
> > Tracy, I'm glad you found the cause and have a work around. Thanks
> > to
> Martin for providing a path for investigation, and thank you again
> Tracy for reporting back your findings. These posts are what this User
> list is all about.
> >
> > Regards,
> > Adrien
> >
> > On 7/12/22 9:14 PM, Adrien Monteleone wrote:
> >> For the simple reason they'll be annoyed and try to ignore the bug
> report, I'd file it. You never know who else has the same problem with
> various apps. Heck, I'd bet the bug is already filed, maybe even
> closed as 'won't fix'. That's even better. File another and make them
> spend their time marking it as a duplicate and closing it. (when their
> time could be better spent by FIXING *their* bug.)
> >> Normally, I'd never suggest such action, but these folks bring it
> >> on
> themselves with their dismissive and haughty attitudes, and you're
> doing nothing wrong reporting or reviving an obvious bug that is
> indeed, their fault. (why introduce Wayland as 'ready' when it isn't?
> If it works, why doesn't it work?)
> >> I'm sure I'll get admonished for the above, but really the
> >> admonishment
> belongs on sour attitudes. Such are not conducive to the Open Source
> model, community, and users providing much needed feedback.
> >> ** Special Note **
> >> GnuCash devs are *not* like this. They'll (at their discretion of
> course) spend an inordinate amount of their personal, volunteer time
> helping users fix something, even if they've helped 10k people before
> you apply the same fix. These folks are golden and have more patience
> than the rest of the known universe. I have the utmost respect and
> appreciation for the GnuCash dev team.
> >
> >> Please remember to CC this list on all your replies.
> >> You can do this by using Reply-To-List or Reply-All.
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > gnucash-user mailing list
> > gnucash-user at gnucash.org
> > To update your subscription preferences or to unsubscribe:
> > https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-user
> > If you are using Nabble or Gmane, please see
> https://wiki.gnucash.org/wiki/Mailing_Lists for more information.
> > -----
> > Please remember to CC this list on all your replies.
> > You can do this by using Reply-To-List or Reply-All.
>
> _______________________________________________
> gnucash-user mailing list
> gnucash-user at gnucash.org
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>
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------------------------------
Message: 2
Date: Wed, 13 Jul 2022 13:30:26 -0500
From: David Carlson <david.carlson.417 at gmail.com>
To: Tracy <gnulist at vbot.org>
Cc: john <jralls at ceridwen.us>, GnuCash List
<gnucash-user at lists.gnucash.org>
Subject: Re: [GNC] Saving window position (and size)
Message-ID:
<CADYgSbkzzQbojJEar33XUq5T5AfX4uSySqW-wBiOAyS=T-Oj1w at mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
I did a little research on this because GnuCash 4.8 in Lubuntu 22.04 with
Lxqt desktop in VirtualBox doesn't have that window placement problem. It
seems that one of the barriers to greater overall acceptance of Wayland is the fact that some older applications have code that is incompatible with some aspects of Wayland. Thus there is a motivation to review GnuCash code for compatibility sometime in the future.
Unfortunately, I don't have appropriate skills to help, so I can only ask politely for developers to consider making it a future goal.
On Wed, Jul 13, 2022, 9:35 AM Tracy <gnulist at vbot.org> wrote:
> Good morning John,
>
> I get what you are saying, and I agree that tracking down the exact
> problem would be a huge undertaking. However, in this case, I can't
> just point the finger at GnuCash - there are other apps that were
> doing the same thing (one example being LibreOffice Calc). However,
> there were other apps (notably Pidgin, Firefox, and Thunderbird) that were working correctly.
> Which, of course, further supports your theory that it is a buried
> problem that would take an inordinate amount of time to dig out,
> between the various levels of interactions. Which is why I said I
> doubted that I would get any traction on a bug report - I just don't
> have the time (or the
> skills) to dig through all the layers to find the underlying problem.
>
> But as it happens, I am fine with using X11 (I prefer it, I was just
> giving Wayland a trial since they made it default), so I also don't
> really have the motivation to dig either.
>
>
> On Tue, Jul 12, 2022, 23:46 john <jralls at ceridwen.us> wrote:
>
> > Setting aside the tone of Adrien's comments, I think that filing a
> > bug report against the Wayland project would be seriously misplaced.
> > They're just publishing a spec and a model implementaiton. The
> > actual implementation for Gnome is
> > https://gitlab.gnome.org/GNOME/mutter. KDE has a different
> > compositor called Plasma. Compositors take bitmaps for different
> > logical areas of the screen and blend them together to
> determine
> > what color dot goes at what coordinate, then passes the result to
> > the hardware. Mutter handles both Wayland and X11 protocols for
> > sending the bitmaps and it's possible but unlikely that it's the
> > source of the
> problem.
> >
> > It's far more likely that the problem is in Gtk's gdk-wayland backend.
> Gdk
> > is the layer that converts the Window abstraction into drawing
> instructions
> > that it passes to cairo to execute; it's what decides that an x-by-y
> window
> > will be represented by what set of colored dots at some position on
> > the screen. So in theory that would be the right place to aim your
> > bug
> report.
> > In theory.
> >
> > In practice, if you file a bug with Gtk saying "GnuCash remembers
> > where
> to
> > put my window on X11 but not on Wayland" they won't know what to do
> > with it, so unless you're able to reduce it to a simple example
> > they're not going to be able to figure out what's wrong with their
> > code--if anything
> is.
> >
> > There's another problem, and it's that GnuCash's Gtk code is still
> > warmed over Gtk2 code with the absolute minimum done to keep it working in Gtk3.
> > There's tons of deprecated code that we haven't made time to update,
> partly
> > for lack of time and partly because we support older distributions.
> > It's entirely possible, likely even, that the reason that the window
> > doesn't
> get
> > put in the right place on Wayland is that GnuCash is calling a
> > deprecated function that's implemented for X11 but not for Wayland.
> > In a perfect
> world
> > you should file a bug with GnuCash and let us devs figure out where
> > the problem is and whether to push it upstream. Unfortunately there
> > are at present only two core devs who know GUI coding enough to do
> > that, Bob Fewell and me. I can't really speak for Bob but I have far
> > too big a pile of higher priority work to put in the several hours
> > of debugging that problem. It won't do any harm to file that bug but
> > I can't offer much
> hope
> > that it will get acted upon.
> >
> > Regards,
> > John Ralls
> >
> >
> > > On Jul 12, 2022, at 7:25 PM, Adrien Monteleone <
> > adrien.monteleone at lusfiber.net> wrote:
> > >
> > > RATS. I hate it when I proof a post but don't stop to think before
> > hitting 'send.'
> > >
> > > My apologies to the GnuCash team, the moderator, and any readers
> > > of
> this
> > thread.
> > >
> > > While I stand behind my comments, this is not the forum for such a
> > discussion. My sentiments aren't about 'using GnuCash' and don't
> > advance the original question posted. (though I do think a
> > Wayland-related bug report is in order, if it doesn't exist.)
> > >
> > > I'll strive to pause and reflect more before posting replies
> > > rather
> than
> > just proofreading.
> > >
> > > Tracy, I'm glad you found the cause and have a work around. Thanks
> > > to
> > Martin for providing a path for investigation, and thank you again
> > Tracy for reporting back your findings. These posts are what this
> > User list is all about.
> > >
> > > Regards,
> > > Adrien
> > >
> > > On 7/12/22 9:14 PM, Adrien Monteleone wrote:
> > >> For the simple reason they'll be annoyed and try to ignore the
> > >> bug
> > report, I'd file it. You never know who else has the same problem
> > with various apps. Heck, I'd bet the bug is already filed, maybe
> > even closed
> as
> > 'won't fix'. That's even better. File another and make them spend
> > their time marking it as a duplicate and closing it. (when their
> > time could be better spent by FIXING *their* bug.)
> > >> Normally, I'd never suggest such action, but these folks bring it
> > >> on
> > themselves with their dismissive and haughty attitudes, and you're
> > doing nothing wrong reporting or reviving an obvious bug that is
> > indeed, their fault. (why introduce Wayland as 'ready' when it
> > isn't? If it works, why doesn't it work?)
> > >> I'm sure I'll get admonished for the above, but really the
> admonishment
> > belongs on sour attitudes. Such are not conducive to the Open Source
> model,
> > community, and users providing much needed feedback.
> > >> ** Special Note **
> > >> GnuCash devs are *not* like this. They'll (at their discretion of
> > course) spend an inordinate amount of their personal, volunteer time
> > helping users fix something, even if they've helped 10k people
> > before you apply the same fix. These folks are golden and have more
> > patience than
> the
> > rest of the known universe. I have the utmost respect and
> > appreciation
> for
> > the GnuCash dev team.
> > >
> > >> Please remember to CC this list on all your replies.
> > >> You can do this by using Reply-To-List or Reply-All.
> > >
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > gnucash-user mailing list
> > > gnucash-user at gnucash.org
> > > To update your subscription preferences or to unsubscribe:
> > > https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-user
> > > If you are using Nabble or Gmane, please see
> > https://wiki.gnucash.org/wiki/Mailing_Lists for more information.
> > > -----
> > > Please remember to CC this list on all your replies.
> > > You can do this by using Reply-To-List or Reply-All.
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > gnucash-user mailing list
> > gnucash-user at gnucash.org
> > To update your subscription preferences or to unsubscribe:
> > https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-user
> > If you are using Nabble or Gmane, please see
> > https://wiki.gnucash.org/wiki/Mailing_Lists for more information.
> > -----
> > Please remember to CC this list on all your replies.
> > You can do this by using Reply-To-List or Reply-All.
> >
> _______________________________________________
> gnucash-user mailing list
> gnucash-user at gnucash.org
> To update your subscription preferences or to unsubscribe:
> https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-user
> If you are using Nabble or Gmane, please see
> https://wiki.gnucash.org/wiki/Mailing_Lists for more information.
> -----
> Please remember to CC this list on all your replies.
> You can do this by using Reply-To-List or Reply-All.
>
------------------------------
Message: 3
Date: Wed, 13 Jul 2022 14:05:47 -0500
From: Adrien Monteleone <adrien.monteleone at lusfiber.net>
To: gnucash-user at lists.gnucash.org
Subject: Re: [GNC] .Re: Revisiting the pre-paid invoice (coupon,
credit note
Message-ID: <tan52b$nf$5 at ciao.gmane.io>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed
The Customer Report can show current 'credit available' once the pre-payment is processed and can be given to the client. Of course, this doesn't show rate info, etc. (though a footer type stylesheet might offer room for such info)
An alternative would be to create a Credit Note and send that to the client, but then a conundrum ensues:
The usual process for a Credit Note is to use *it* as payment/partial-payment for an invoice, but in this case, the customer is still paying in full. Credit Notes are for situations like discounts & allowances or other refunds/reductions from an invoice so the customer doesn't have to pay the full original price and where a discount wasn't applied on the original invoice.
It may be that the best option is to create a document outside of GnuCash to give to clients that reflects the initial credit available with other desired information. From then on, regular invoices and Customer Reports should suffice.
Regards,
Adrien
On 7/13/22 12:23 PM, davidvernonlong at gmail.com wrote:
> Hi Adrien,
>
> I had the same thought as you "I'm curious why you raised an invoice
> for a payment against a coupon/credit note." But I guess the reason is
> that a document will be created if an" invoice" is raised for the
> prepayment which he can send to the student called "Coupon for future
> studies" or " Proforma Invoice" with hours and rates or whatever, and
> then when the actual tutorship is completed, he can raise an invoice
> and send that to the student too and post it to revenue, which will
> need to be offset against the prepayment. The billing system will produce the documents nicely.
>
> Otherwise, if that's not the reason, I would agree with you entirely
> as your procedure is simpler.
------------------------------
Message: 4
Date: Thu, 14 Jul 2022 06:31:24 +0100
From: "Alan A Holmes" <gnucash at alanaholmes.me.uk>
To: "'John Ralls'" <jralls at ceridwen.us>,
<gnucash-announce at lists.gnucash.org>
Cc: "'gnucash-devel'" <gnucash-devel at gnucash.org>, "'Gnucash Users'"
<gnucash-user at gnucash.org>
Subject: Re: [GNC] ANNOUNCE: GnuCash Windows Bundle 4.11-1 Released
Message-ID: <001c01d89742$f5a470a0$e0ed51e0$@alanaholmes.me.uk>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
I've just installed this latest update, as I do all updates, after return from holiday. Though the setup.exe is definitely a different size to V4.11,
Help->About gives me exactly the same version number and build date. Is
Help->that
what I would expect?
Alan A Holmes
-----Original Message-----
From: gnucash-announce
<gnucash-announce-bounces+gnucash=alanaholmes.me.uk at gnucash.org> On Behalf Of John Ralls
Sent: 02 July 2022 21:34
To: gnucash-announce at lists.gnucash.org
Cc: gnucash-devel <gnucash-devel at gnucash.org>; Gnucash Users <gnucash-user at gnucash.org>
Subject: ANNOUNCE: GnuCash Windows Bundle 4.11-1 Released
This fixes https://bugs.gnucash.org/show_bug.cgi?id=798559, Online Actions missing from menus.
It restores File>Import>MT940 and other SWIFT formats, Actions>Online Actions, and Tools>Online Banking Setup.
63d98c5873e58191cbac5c6ba4f269528c67911d0d63e2dd114e2f1c12c328a7
gnucash-4.11-1.setup.exe
Downloads:
https://code.gnucash.org/builds/win32/releases/gnucash-4.11-1.setup.exe
https://downloads.sourceforge.net/gnucash/gnucash%20%28stable%29/4.11/gnucas
h-4.11-1.setup.exe
https://github.com/Gnucash/gnucash/releases/download/4.11/gnucash-4.11-1.set
up.exe
Regards,
John Ralls
_______________________________________________
gnucash-announce mailing list
gnucash-announce at gnucash.org
https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-announce
------------------------------
Message: 5
Date: Thu, 14 Jul 2022 10:34:50 +0200
From: "Frank H. Ellenberger" <frank.h.ellenberger at gmail.com>
To: Alan A Holmes <gnucash at alanaholmes.me.uk>
Cc: 'gnucash-devel' <gnucash-devel at gnucash.org>, 'Gnucash Users'
<gnucash-user at gnucash.org>
Subject: Re: [GNC] ANNOUNCE: GnuCash Windows Bundle 4.11-1 Released
Message-ID: <ca680405-9f0c-b30e-2e04-75d8d0813a8b at gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
Hello Allan,
as this is a user question it should have been sent to gnucash-users only.
Yes, the fix did not happen in GnuCash itself, but its bundled dependencies:
https://github.com/Gnucash/gnucash-on-windows/commit/03f7f35342d717c1a137e82ad4d8f4973fa4f934
Regards
Frank
Am 14.07.22 um 07:31 schrieb Alan A Holmes:
> I've just installed this latest update, as I do all updates, after
> return from holiday. Though the setup.exe is definitely a different
> size to V4.11,
> Help->About gives me exactly the same version number and build date.
> Help->Is that
> what I would expect?
>
>
> Alan A Holmes
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