[GNC] Sub-Accounting (Was: Problem with missing balance in a parent account **FINAL POST**)
Robin Chattopadhyay
robinraymn at gmail.com
Tue Oct 11 19:04:27 EDT 2022
I strongly -- but respectfully -- disagree.
Gnucash works *brilliantly* for a sub-accounting use case with a single
bank account at a financial institution comprised of multiple sub-accounts.
For example, until my children were old enough/mature enough to have their
own savings accounts at our bank, I held all of their individual savings,
plus my own in a single account at the bank to take advantage of higher
interest rates for higher balances.
Like this:
Savings Account 1234 (Placeholder because I didn't want transactions
accidentally ending up here. Everything needs to be in a sub-account for my
own piece of mind)
--> Main Savings
--> Child A Savings
--> Child B Savings
--> Child C Savings
--> Vacation
--> Capital Improvement
--> etc. (other special purpose accounts)
I can always immediately tell, within Gnucash, what is due each child or
what their available balance is.
When reconciling to the bank statement, I can select the representation of
the bank account (Savings Account 1234), then click Actions -> Reconcile,
enter the ending balance from the statement, click Include sub-accounts,
and away I go. The reconcile window allows me to select any unreconciled
transaction from any of the sub-accounts and reconcile back to the
statement balance. Internal transfers between sub-accounts are not on the
bank statement, obviously, but can also be reconciled in the Reconcile
window as they will definitionally net to 0.00.
I can also allocate interest amongst the various sub-accounts with a single
credit to an Interest Income account and a debit to each sub-account.
The only place where this system breaks down is importing an OFX file as
the transaction importer doesn't understand matching transactions to sub
accounts. For me, this is a small, small price to pay for all the other
advantages I cited above.
I also employ this system for credit cards where certain transactions are
subject to a promotional interest rate, or I want to keep vacation
transactions separate. A single payment to the credit card issuer can be
allocated to each sub-account. Balances can be compared to the promotional
balances on the statement.
Robin
On Tue, Oct 11, 2022 at 9:11 AM John Layman <john.layman at laymanandlayman.com>
wrote:
> Reconcile appears in the menu, but it will not open a reconciliation of
> the subordinates, and (presumably) the placeholder account itself is
> empty. You can expand the subordinates, but will not be able to reconcile
> the expansion.
>
> What you are attempting to do is understandable, but difficult from a data
> modelling standpoint. The constituent parts of a data structure have
> semantics. In your particular case: that of a checking account. But you
> are attempting to superimpose a breakdown of its contents that represent
> different semantics. These semantics clash somewhat with the semantics of
> 'checking account' and the related function of reconciliation required with
> a bank statement. So, while what you are attempting to accomplish is
> understandable, the collision of semantics is difficult to harmonize.
>
> There was recent mention of envelope budgeting here. Trying to implement
> an envelope budgeting scheme by using sub-accounts to a single checking
> account might be doable, but it would be a kluge insofar as it would
> complicate reconciliation and wouldn't represent a generally suitable
> envelope budget feature. An envelope budgeting feature would necessarily
> span multiple financial accounts, potentially across multiple institutions,
> and require an entirely different view to be superimposed on the simple
> tree structure accounts in GnuCash represent. The tree structure is
> GnuCash is tremendously flexible, but doesn't provide for multiple views.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: gnucash-user <gnucash-user-bounces+john.layman=ieee.org at gnucash.org>
> On Behalf Of Robin Chattopadhyay
> Sent: Monday, October 10, 2022 5:05 PM
> To: Gnucash Users <gnucash-user at gnucash.org>
> Subject: Re: [GNC] Problem with missing balance in a parent account
> **FINAL POST**
>
> At the risk of sounding defensive (I assure you I'm not, just confused)
> what is wrong with what I suggested (using the right-click/context menu on
> the placeholder account)? In the screen shot attached, you can see that the
> account I've selected is marked as placeholder and I can select the
> Reconcile option from that account.
>
> I'm using 4.12 on Ubuntu 22.04.
>
> Robin
>
> On Mon, Oct 10, 2022 at 8:21 AM john <jralls at ceridwen.us> wrote:
>
> > Please remember to copy the list on all replies.
> >
> > If you want the Reconcile button (and, contrary to what Robin
> > Chatterjay wrote, Actions>Reconcile) to be active for your account,
> > make it not a placeholder.
> >
> > Regards,
> > John Ralls
> >
> >
> > > On Oct 10, 2022, at 7:56 AM, Jay Ridgley <jridgley2 at austin.rr.com>
> > wrote:
> > >
> > > Good morning,
> > >
> > > After some additional research I believe that the ONLY problem is
> > > the
> > grayed out reconcile button.
> > >
> > > I was confused about the balance showing in the Parent Account,
> > Placeholder. It shows in the Reconcile Popup window.
> > >
> > > The ACTUAL trouble is the grayed out Reconcile Button, that first
> > appeared for me in Ubuntu 22.04 LTS after the upgrade.
> > >
> > > Since I have found the workaround below, it is a matter of
> > inconvenience. However it would be preferable to have it as it was in
> > earlier releases (not grayed out).
> > >
> > > Regards
> > > Jay
> > >
> > > On 10/9/22 15:49, Jay Ridgley wrote:
> > >> Good afternoon,
> > >> Up until Ubuntu 22.04 The reconcile button was NOT grayed out for
> > >> the
> > type of account I am using (Parent account and Placeholder). I am
> > including an example of my account structure here:
> > >> Banking Account (Parent Account, Placeholder)
> > >> Checkbook (sub-account)(contains all checkbook transactions)
> > >> Reserve (sub-account) (contains minimum account balance)
> > >> Separate Purpose (sub account) (rental income & expenses)
> > >> Checkbook Blind (sub-account) (amount held as a pad) All
> > >> transactions take place in the sub-accounts. For me it has worked
> > successfully since I began using GnuCash (over 25 years ago).
> > >> I was advised of a workaround that allows me to continue using this
> > arrangement until it can be fixed/changed to act as it did previously.
> > >> It is as follows:
> > >> Open Parent account
> > >> right click and choose reconcile from the drop down Works just
> > >> fine.
> > >> Would not be necessary if the Reconcile button was not grayed out.
> > >> My question boils down too: Is this change a bug or a "feature" and
> > >> can
> > it be put back the way it was?
> > >> Please advise how I should proceed.
> > >> Thanks,
> > >> Jay
> > >> On 10/8/22 07:50, David T. wrote:
> > >>> That account register doesn't have any transactions in it, so it
> > >>> won't
> > have any value either. Is it possible that in the past, you used a
> > report to see the parent account balances, or even the Chart of Accounts?
> > >>>
> > >>> And if the account in the screen shot is a placeholder account,
> > >>> then
> > you a) wouldn't be able to open the account by double clicking, b) be
> > told on selecting Open that it was read only, and c) once opened, the
> > entire register would be greyed out. The screen shot seems to show a
> > normal account. It also shows a similarly-named tab next to the active
> tab.
> > >>>
> > >>> David T.
> > >>> On Oct 8, 2022, at 1:51 PM, Jay Ridgley <jridgley2 at austin.rr.com
> > <mailto:jridgley2 at austin.rr.com>> wrote:
> > >>>
> > >>> On 10/7/22 16:38, john wrote:
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>> On Oct 7, 2022, at 12:43 PM, Jay Ridgley
> > >>> <jridgley2 at austin.rr.com> wrote:
> > >>>
> > >>> Good Morning,
> > >>>
> > >>> BRAND NEW to the list, have been using GnuCash on my
> Ubuntu
> > >>> system for over 20 years, this is the first problem I
> have
> > >>> encountered that I have not been able to resolve.
> > >>>
> > >>> I discovered that the balance amount that should
> > >>> appear in
> > a
> > >>> the parent account for my bank is missing. Therefore I am
> > >>> unable to do this month's reconcile.
> > >>>
> > >>> The account was proper last month, and I was able to
> > balance
> > >>> my checkbook successfully. In the meantime I upgraded to
> > >>> Ubuntu 22.04 LTS from 20.04 LTS every thing seems to
> > running
> > >>> properly, otherwise, including GnuCash.
> > >>>
> > >>> Today when I tried to reconcile my bank account I
> > discovered
> > >>> the amount of the balance is missing and the reconcile
> > >>> button is grayed out(naturally since nothing shows).
> > >>>
> > >>> All the sub accounts point to the parent account and
> when I
> > >>> list my accounts the balance appears there and is
> correct.
> > >>>
> > >>> What happened and how can I get it back?
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>> Can you attach (don't inline!) a screenshot of the problem?
> > It's
> > >>> not clear from your description what balance is missing
> > >>> and
> > what
> > >>> button is disabled.
> > >>>
> > >>> Regards,
> > >>> John Ralls
> > >>>
> > >>> John,
> > >>>
> > >>> Sorry it took so long...
> > >>> The account shown is the parent and the Balance should NOT be
> > blank, but
> > >>> the sum of 4 account balances.
> > >>>
> > >>> Thanks,
> > >>> Jay
> > >>>
> > >
> > > --
> > > Jay Ridgley
> > > jridgley2 at austin.rr.com
> > > Registered Linux User ID - 9115
> > > https://linuxcounter.net/cert/9115.png
> > > Registered Ubuntu User ID - 23320
> > >
> >
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