[GNC] Sub-Accounting (Was: Problem with missing balance in a parent account **FINAL POST**)
Stephen M. Butler
Stephen.M.Butler51 at gmail.com
Tue Oct 11 19:49:35 EDT 2022
Similarly, my Living Revocable Trust is a single savings account at the
credit Union. In GnC it is a placeholder account with the following
sub-accounts:
Sinking Fund
Emergency Fund
General Fund
Likewise, the non-trust account is a checking account that has two
sub-accounts:
HamFlags
Personal
Keeping the "business" out of my personal activity just makes it easier
to track.
I reconcile the two top accounts (separately) then check the "Include
sub-accounts" so it is easy to check off all the items shown on the bank
site.
Now, I am comfortable right clicking on the placeholder account and
picking reconcile. But I understand that some may want the button
active in this situation.
--Steve
On 10/11/22 16:04, Robin Chattopadhyay wrote:
> I strongly -- but respectfully -- disagree.
>
> Gnucash works *brilliantly* for a sub-accounting use case with a single
> bank account at a financial institution comprised of multiple sub-accounts.
>
> For example, until my children were old enough/mature enough to have their
> own savings accounts at our bank, I held all of their individual savings,
> plus my own in a single account at the bank to take advantage of higher
> interest rates for higher balances.
>
> Like this:
> Savings Account 1234 (Placeholder because I didn't want transactions
> accidentally ending up here. Everything needs to be in a sub-account for my
> own piece of mind)
> --> Main Savings
> --> Child A Savings
> --> Child B Savings
> --> Child C Savings
> --> Vacation
> --> Capital Improvement
> --> etc. (other special purpose accounts)
>
> I can always immediately tell, within Gnucash, what is due each child or
> what their available balance is.
>
> When reconciling to the bank statement, I can select the representation of
> the bank account (Savings Account 1234), then click Actions -> Reconcile,
> enter the ending balance from the statement, click Include sub-accounts,
> and away I go. The reconcile window allows me to select any unreconciled
> transaction from any of the sub-accounts and reconcile back to the
> statement balance. Internal transfers between sub-accounts are not on the
> bank statement, obviously, but can also be reconciled in the Reconcile
> window as they will definitionally net to 0.00.
>
> I can also allocate interest amongst the various sub-accounts with a single
> credit to an Interest Income account and a debit to each sub-account.
>
> The only place where this system breaks down is importing an OFX file as
> the transaction importer doesn't understand matching transactions to sub
> accounts. For me, this is a small, small price to pay for all the other
> advantages I cited above.
>
> I also employ this system for credit cards where certain transactions are
> subject to a promotional interest rate, or I want to keep vacation
> transactions separate. A single payment to the credit card issuer can be
> allocated to each sub-account. Balances can be compared to the promotional
> balances on the statement.
>
> Robin
>
> On Tue, Oct 11, 2022 at 9:11 AM John Layman <john.layman at laymanandlayman.com>
> wrote:
>
>> Reconcile appears in the menu, but it will not open a reconciliation of
>> the subordinates, and (presumably) the placeholder account itself is
>> empty. You can expand the subordinates, but will not be able to reconcile
>> the expansion.
>>
>> What you are attempting to do is understandable, but difficult from a data
>> modelling standpoint. The constituent parts of a data structure have
>> semantics. In your particular case: that of a checking account. But you
>> are attempting to superimpose a breakdown of its contents that represent
>> different semantics. These semantics clash somewhat with the semantics of
>> 'checking account' and the related function of reconciliation required with
>> a bank statement. So, while what you are attempting to accomplish is
>> understandable, the collision of semantics is difficult to harmonize.
>>
>> There was recent mention of envelope budgeting here. Trying to implement
>> an envelope budgeting scheme by using sub-accounts to a single checking
>> account might be doable, but it would be a kluge insofar as it would
>> complicate reconciliation and wouldn't represent a generally suitable
>> envelope budget feature. An envelope budgeting feature would necessarily
>> span multiple financial accounts, potentially across multiple institutions,
>> and require an entirely different view to be superimposed on the simple
>> tree structure accounts in GnuCash represent. The tree structure is
>> GnuCash is tremendously flexible, but doesn't provide for multiple views.
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: gnucash-user <gnucash-user-bounces+john.layman=ieee.org at gnucash.org>
>> On Behalf Of Robin Chattopadhyay
>> Sent: Monday, October 10, 2022 5:05 PM
>> To: Gnucash Users <gnucash-user at gnucash.org>
>> Subject: Re: [GNC] Problem with missing balance in a parent account
>> **FINAL POST**
>>
>> At the risk of sounding defensive (I assure you I'm not, just confused)
>> what is wrong with what I suggested (using the right-click/context menu on
>> the placeholder account)? In the screen shot attached, you can see that the
>> account I've selected is marked as placeholder and I can select the
>> Reconcile option from that account.
>>
>> I'm using 4.12 on Ubuntu 22.04.
>>
>> Robin
>>
>> On Mon, Oct 10, 2022 at 8:21 AM john <jralls at ceridwen.us> wrote:
>>
>>> Please remember to copy the list on all replies.
>>>
>>> If you want the Reconcile button (and, contrary to what Robin
>>> Chatterjay wrote, Actions>Reconcile) to be active for your account,
>>> make it not a placeholder.
>>>
>>> Regards,
>>> John Ralls
>>>
>>>
>>>> On Oct 10, 2022, at 7:56 AM, Jay Ridgley <jridgley2 at austin.rr.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>> Good morning,
>>>>
>>>> After some additional research I believe that the ONLY problem is
>>>> the
>>> grayed out reconcile button.
>>>> I was confused about the balance showing in the Parent Account,
>>> Placeholder. It shows in the Reconcile Popup window.
>>>> The ACTUAL trouble is the grayed out Reconcile Button, that first
>>> appeared for me in Ubuntu 22.04 LTS after the upgrade.
>>>> Since I have found the workaround below, it is a matter of
>>> inconvenience. However it would be preferable to have it as it was in
>>> earlier releases (not grayed out).
>>>> Regards
>>>> Jay
>>>>
>>>> On 10/9/22 15:49, Jay Ridgley wrote:
>>>>> Good afternoon,
>>>>> Up until Ubuntu 22.04 The reconcile button was NOT grayed out for
>>>>> the
>>> type of account I am using (Parent account and Placeholder). I am
>>> including an example of my account structure here:
>>>>> Banking Account (Parent Account, Placeholder)
>>>>> Checkbook (sub-account)(contains all checkbook transactions)
>>>>> Reserve (sub-account) (contains minimum account balance)
>>>>> Separate Purpose (sub account) (rental income & expenses)
>>>>> Checkbook Blind (sub-account) (amount held as a pad) All
>>>>> transactions take place in the sub-accounts. For me it has worked
>>> successfully since I began using GnuCash (over 25 years ago).
>>>>> I was advised of a workaround that allows me to continue using this
>>> arrangement until it can be fixed/changed to act as it did previously.
>>>>> It is as follows:
>>>>> Open Parent account
>>>>> right click and choose reconcile from the drop down Works just
>>>>> fine.
>>>>> Would not be necessary if the Reconcile button was not grayed out.
>>>>> My question boils down too: Is this change a bug or a "feature" and
>>>>> can
>>> it be put back the way it was?
>>>>> Please advise how I should proceed.
>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>> Jay
>>>>> On 10/8/22 07:50, David T. wrote:
>>>>>> That account register doesn't have any transactions in it, so it
>>>>>> won't
>>> have any value either. Is it possible that in the past, you used a
>>> report to see the parent account balances, or even the Chart of Accounts?
>>>>>> And if the account in the screen shot is a placeholder account,
>>>>>> then
>>> you a) wouldn't be able to open the account by double clicking, b) be
>>> told on selecting Open that it was read only, and c) once opened, the
>>> entire register would be greyed out. The screen shot seems to show a
>>> normal account. It also shows a similarly-named tab next to the active
>> tab.
>>>>>> David T.
>>>>>> On Oct 8, 2022, at 1:51 PM, Jay Ridgley <jridgley2 at austin.rr.com
>>> <mailto:jridgley2 at austin.rr.com>> wrote:
>>>>>> On 10/7/22 16:38, john wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Oct 7, 2022, at 12:43 PM, Jay Ridgley
>>>>>> <jridgley2 at austin.rr.com> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Good Morning,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> BRAND NEW to the list, have been using GnuCash on my
>> Ubuntu
>>>>>> system for over 20 years, this is the first problem I
>> have
>>>>>> encountered that I have not been able to resolve.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I discovered that the balance amount that should
>>>>>> appear in
>>> a
>>>>>> the parent account for my bank is missing. Therefore I am
>>>>>> unable to do this month's reconcile.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The account was proper last month, and I was able to
>>> balance
>>>>>> my checkbook successfully. In the meantime I upgraded to
>>>>>> Ubuntu 22.04 LTS from 20.04 LTS every thing seems to
>>> running
>>>>>> properly, otherwise, including GnuCash.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Today when I tried to reconcile my bank account I
>>> discovered
>>>>>> the amount of the balance is missing and the reconcile
>>>>>> button is grayed out(naturally since nothing shows).
>>>>>>
>>>>>> All the sub accounts point to the parent account and
>> when I
>>>>>> list my accounts the balance appears there and is
>> correct.
>>>>>> What happened and how can I get it back?
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Can you attach (don't inline!) a screenshot of the problem?
>>> It's
>>>>>> not clear from your description what balance is missing
>>>>>> and
>>> what
>>>>>> button is disabled.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Regards,
>>>>>> John Ralls
>>>>>>
>>>>>> John,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Sorry it took so long...
>>>>>> The account shown is the parent and the Balance should NOT be
>>> blank, but
>>>>>> the sum of 4 account balances.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>>> Jay
>>>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Jay Ridgley
>>>> jridgley2 at austin.rr.com
>>>> Registered Linux User ID - 9115
>>>> https://linuxcounter.net/cert/9115.png
>>>> Registered Ubuntu User ID - 23320
>>>>
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--
Stephen M Butler, PMP, PSM
Stephen.M.Butler51 at gmail.com
kg7je at arrl.net
253-350-0166
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