How do I take delivery of stock certificates? (Not a brokerage question.)

[Wm]

In article <571F4B2E.108 at verizon.net>
Jean-David Beyer <jeandavid8 at verizon.net> wrote:
>
> On 04/25/2016 05:02 PM, Wm wrote:
> > In article <5717D4DD.7020303 at verizon.net>
> > Jean-David Beyer <jeandavid8 at verizon.net> wrote:
> >>
> >> I took delivery stock certificates in a company to keep in my safe
> >> deposit box. I had no trouble doing this and the certificates are in the
> >> box now.
> >>
> >> But I do not know how to manage this in GnuCash.
> >>
> >> I have Assets->Investments->Roth->Berkshire that had the certificates in
> >> there.
> >>
> >> I made another account under Assets->Investments also named Berksnire
> >> type Stock. This is a Stock type. I could not do a transfer. Program
> >> says I cannot do that. So I pretended I sold it, put the money in the
> >> Assets->Investments->Roth account as cash. I then went into
> >> Assets->Investments->Berksnire and used the money to buy back the
> >> shares. All this now seems to work, but is too clumsy.
> >>
> >> Now if I do a balance sheet, it uses the original cost basis of these
> >> shares, but it is way way off.
> >>
> >> Those shares were originally purchased in my IRA at it thinks I bought
> >> these shares at 20 years ago. When the Roth IRAs came out, I rolled
> >> those shares into the Roth, paying tax of course. Now I took them out of
> >> the Roth and put them in the safe deposit box. It seems to me it should
> >> use the stock price when I took them out of the Roth and put them in the
> >> safe deposit box.
> >>
> >> What should I do to fix GnuCash's opinion of the cost basis?
> >
> > If you have just received the certificates rather than them being
> > stored elsewhere then there is no event as far s GnuCash is
> > concerned at all.
>
> I have three brokerage accounts in GnuCash.
>
> You say that moving stocks from one to another is not an event.

No, I said it may not be an event.  If I ask for a piece of paper 
representing a holding it is not necesarily a financial transation. 
 If I move the holding in or out of a tax efficient structure then 
there probably is a financial event.

> But actually, it is an event because when I moved this stock from a
> regular IRA to the Roth IRA, I had to pay tax (a lot of tax) on the
> value of those shares) and in a Roth IRA, no tax is paid for either the
> dividends or the capital gains on those shares.

> But if I take shares out of a Roth IRA, no tax is due, but any dividends
> or capital gains on those shares subsequently are taxed, and the capital
> gains are charged based on the price of the shares the day I took them
> out of the Roth IRA. So I want GnuCash to keep track of the shares as of
> that day.

I don't do USA tax advice.  Other people may be more familiar with 
the situation but I'd have thought the model of sale and purchase 
would apply.

> I especially think this should be the case because the way I got GnuCash
> to do this was to fake a sale of the shares and a purchase of new
> shares. Thus, the cost basis should have been the price of the shares I
> "bought."

I may be misunderstanding but I'd expect the price of the new 
holding to be the same (allowing for costs) as the selling price of 
the old holding.

To clarify if you (on the same day or very close to the same day)
Sell 10 Widget PLC @ 100
and
Buy 10 Widget PLC @ 100

how is the cost basis wrong?

An example might help, no need to use real money amounts, etc, 
we're not interested in that.

I think the crux at the moment is this
===
Now if I do a balance sheet, it uses the original cost basis of 
these shares, but it is way way off.
===
if it is "way way off" it is because you've told it so.  It isn't 
obvious to me what you've used as the transfer value. Have you 
perhaps used the original (long ago) purchase values?


> >
> > If there has been a financial event or similar effected by the
> > transfer then a sale and re-purchase would seem appropriate and
> > what you put in as the values is up to you.
> >
> > I am in the UK so this is just about whether there should be a
> > transaction or not and not about any tax implications, etc.
> >

-- 
Wm