[OT] systemd (was Re: www.gnucash.org back online)

[Derek Atkins]

Hi,

Getting very very off topic here.  I don't think anyone is going to change
OSes as a result of systemd.

I agree, systemd is a nightmare.  I've been working on migrating a bunch
of old servers to newer models, and I've been fighting with systemd in
several places.  There's one machine I have that doesn't have a RTC, but
needs to have "current time" before anything works..  So it needs to come
up on the network, get the current time, and *then( start some services. 
But no finagling around in systemd would get that working, so I had to
create an rc.local script that tested the network first before running
ntpdate and then restarting the services that needed the correct time.

Having said all that, in general I can get systemd into shape without too
much effort.  There are corner cases that drive me nuts, and I HATE how it
gets its grubby little hands into absolutely everything, but I wouldn't
scrap my knowledge solely because of my disdain for systemd.

-derek

On Mon, February 6, 2017 2:49 pm, Securenym.net wrote:
> systemd is an ongoing discussion in the -nix communities.  I use linux on
> embedded systems, but we are predominantly a FreeBSD shop.  FreeBSD is
> based, for the most part on BSD Unix, as is Apple’s Darwin (OS X).  The
> original intent of systemd was to replace initd and create a complex
> integrated one size fits all “software framework.”    The goals were to
> provide a software development platform, a services manager and an
> interface between kernel and applications.
>
> Some of us feel that systemd is Redhat’s way of steering the linux
> environment into their corner.   The biggest problems with systemd is that
> it does what it does and if you don’t like it, or it doesn’t implement a
> task interface you want to do, too bad.  It brings some of the order to
> the linux distro inconsistencies, and just makes things easier for linux
> world, but it does break things that don’t need to break.  This is the
> problem with the systemd philosophy of trust us, we’ll do it all for you
> in very tightly integrated modules.
>
> So because of systemd’s philosophy of asynchronous inits and no real way
> to permit good dependency control, short of disabling its core philosophy.
>  That causes a world of problems and because it is a tightly integrated,
> large and complex software component, it’s pretty hard to look under the
> hood and see what’s going wrong, and it looks like systemd devs are trying
> to absorb linux itself into systemd.
>
> While we have been a FreeBSD shop since 1996 (2.1-Release), we have played
> around with Linux and do use it on embedded systems, where it really does
> work well.  But for production work, FreeBSD is king.   Might be worth
> considering.
>
> Walt
>
>
>
>> On Feb 6, 2017, at 12:26 PM, Craig Van Tassle <craig at codestorm.org>
>> wrote:
>>
>> SystemD likes to change how systems start up and their dependencies on
>> the fly. Even updating systemd on my servers have caused a lot of issues
>> and it's hard to find them with standard tools.
>>
>> On 2017-02-06 13:22, tjoen wrote:
>>> On Mon, 2017-02-06 at 12:10 -0500, Craig Van Tassle wrote:
>>>> Another mark against systemd.....
>>>> On 2017-02-06 12:00, Derek Atkins wrote:
>>>> > Derek Atkins <warlord at MIT.EDU> writes:
>>>> >
>>>> > > FYI,
>>>> > >
>>>> > > Looks like www.gnucash.org is back online now.
>>>> > > I don't know what the issue was, but it appears Linas fixed it.
>>>> > > Sorry for any inconvenience.
>>>> >
>>>> > For the record, apparently during a system update Ubuntu changed
>>>> > permissions on the container system which blocked access to the
>>>> > website.  That and systemd broke it.
>>> I don't see systemd dependencies in httpd
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-- 
       Derek Atkins                 617-623-3745
       derek at ihtfp.com             www.ihtfp.com
       Computer and Internet Security Consultant